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yeah but i can buy a fucking cookbook lol
Thread: Amazon's LOTR Series Name - "Rings of Power"
yeah but i can buy a fucking cookbook lol
That argument has more to do with economics than diversity.
We now live in a world where the economic elements are easily transferable. If an African company wants to set up shop to sell diamonds or cocoa in England, that is a form of economic diversity. For a economy to succeed they need to expand outwards.
White ppl are flocking to India because not because of diverisity but economic opportunity. Economics matters, historically, some of the greatest cities in the world have always been port cities where ppl of different cultures interact.
And I would agree 100 % there...........diveristy based on tokenism doesn't work and is toxic............This was my inital argument before this before we went on a tangent.
"Lol no.
Diversity is a very good thing to have the breadth of ideas, talent and ingenuity is something that can really make or break civilizations. The problem with diversity is achieving it for the sake of token ship.
There is no gradual shift, there is no proper placement, there is no qualitative filtering. If you are hiring an actor for the sake of him being black or brown but you forgo another person who lets say happens to be white who brings depth to that fictional character or story then that's where diversity can undo everything.
If a person ethnicity or gender is his or her entire reason for being, then diversity becomes a failure because there is mis-match between the desired goals and that person's capability.
We have to recognized that certain biases are important and permissible to achieve a desired result."
But can you make general taos chicken like PF changs. I know I can't and I have their cook book.
That's the Japan way. Take foreign foods and Japanify them to (usually) make them better.
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I don't eat food that glorifies the Chinese military
Without the Meiji restoration and the opening of Japan to the dirty foreign hordes, we wouldn't have Katsu Curry. Checkmate, seclusionists!
and that's diversity as well. It offers the ways to compliment skills that other cultures may not have. PPl realizing those skills have economic value move to those countries (where its lacking) and sell it. Its more economic for them that way.
Diversity isn't boiled down too "brown or black ppl taking mah jobs" because that just a single component. Its also skilled based, its informational based and so on.
White people aren't flocking to India lol, wtf are you talking about.
Also you're back to conflating interacting with merging, port cities and economics are interactions, you're arguing as though we are against interactions. The merge is the problem. Port cities are on the EDGE of a nation lol.
Also you're back to conflating interacting with merging, port cities and economics are interactions, you're arguing as though we are against interactions. The merge is the problem. Port cities are on the EDGE of a nation lol.
Yeah, I'm all about different cultures interacting on the world stage and learning/borrowing from each other. That's what makes the world so damn interesting.
I'm just against the modern idea of capital D Diversity, which is really just another word for globalism. I'm getting the sense that we all might be talking about slightly different things in this discussion.
Would I prefer to have a homogeneous culture and work on that recipe? Yes.
And that you my man. I get it and I understand the reservations of having a multicultural society. I may not relate to it but atleast I try to understand it.
GreyHorace
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Not to join into the argument of whether diversity is a good or bad thing in the economic sense, I'd like to point out that through all this uproar regarding the POC's being inserted into Middle Earth, no one has addressed the merits of The Lord of the Rings as a work that absolutely rejects racial doctrine.
Hell, I'm pretty sure people don't even remember the scene where the Fellowship enters the Woods of Lothlorien as it's written in the book. While they're guaranteed safe passage into Lorien by Haldir, he tells them that Gimili, being a dwarf, has to be blindfolded so as not to reveal the secret path. Gimli, of course, takes offense to being singled out and to ease the rising tensions, Aragorn asks all the Fellowship be blindfolded, even Legolas, who objects at first but nonetheless complies. As they're being led into the forest, the blindfolds suddenly come off and Haldir apologizes to Gimli on behalf of Galadriel, who declares Gimli a friend of Elf kind, and later on Galadriel herself declares that the Woods of Lothlorien will be open to any Dwarf who visits.
It's a great scene that sadly wasn't included in the movies, and should put to bed the arguments that JRR Tolkien was a racist. Shit, the man told a German publisher to suck it when he was asked if he had Jewish ancestry and Tolkien told him flat out he regretted not having relations to that 'noble people.'
Hell, I'm pretty sure people don't even remember the scene where the Fellowship enters the Woods of Lothlorien as it's written in the book. While they're guaranteed safe passage into Lorien by Haldir, he tells them that Gimili, being a dwarf, has to be blindfolded so as not to reveal the secret path. Gimli, of course, takes offense to being singled out and to ease the rising tensions, Aragorn asks all the Fellowship be blindfolded, even Legolas, who objects at first but nonetheless complies. As they're being led into the forest, the blindfolds suddenly come off and Haldir apologizes to Gimli on behalf of Galadriel, who declares Gimli a friend of Elf kind, and later on Galadriel herself declares that the Woods of Lothlorien will be open to any Dwarf who visits.
It's a great scene that sadly wasn't included in the movies, and should put to bed the arguments that JRR Tolkien was a racist. Shit, the man told a German publisher to suck it when he was asked if he had Jewish ancestry and Tolkien told him flat out he regretted not having relations to that 'noble people.'
Back on topic, what's the over/under on us getting trans dwarves in this show?
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GreyHorace
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It happened in the tv version of Terry Prachett's The Watch. Pretty sure it'll happen here.
Yeah, I'll definitely give the first episode a watch, especially since it won't cost me anything additional.
I've been very unimpressed with Amazon's original content thus far, so even aside from the woke shit, I can't say I expect it to be good at all.
India is the 5th largest country by GDP in the world. They're flocking to it. Been there more than 10 times and there is a lot of white people there. Especially British.
And there is a lot of British Cuisine there made by white chefs
Merging is part of process, interaction is the initial. If you find a skill that is deficient in another society and that is tradable. You make an effort to sell it to that culture. You try to commoditise and at least make it have a high barrier of entry to so that it cannot be easily replicated so that you make the money.
That a form of how diversity works. It comes in many forms its not just brown ppl sneaking over the border and not adding any economic value.
I'm an child of immigrants and I love America. I love capitalism, I love hot dogs, I love beer, I love PF CHANGS even though that have nothing to do with my parents culture.
Worked hard and my earnings add economic value to America. That's an example of diversity as well adding economic value to a society.
India is the 5th largest country by GDP in the world. They're flocking to it. Been there more than 10 times and there is a lot of white people there. Especially British.
And there is a lot of British Cuisine there made by white chefs
Merging is part of process, interaction is the initial. If you find a skill that is deficient in another society and that is tradable. You make an effort to sell it to that culture. You try to commoditise and at least make it have a high barrier of entry to so that it cannot be easily replicated so that you make the money.
That a form of how diversity works. It comes in many forms its not just brown ppl sneaking over the border and not adding any economic value.
I'm an child of immigrants and I love America. I love capitalism, I love hot dogs, I love beer, I love PF CHANGS even though that have nothing to do with my parents culture.
Worked hard and my earnings add economic value to America. That's an example of diversity as well adding economic value to a society.
You put more words in my mouth than India puts shit in the street.
The diversity of human appearance is a result of the geography, physical adaption to the localised environment and the generational gene pool with little in the way of cross-pollination. When you have the Sun beating down on you in the middle of Africa having a high melatonin count is a necessity. In 100 generations from now, I doubt anyone whatever their origin in the northern hemisphere is going to be sporting a deep tan outside of a sunbed because there's zero need for the human body to work overtime in that regard in that environment. Our generics are not immutable, they are adaptive. When it comes to Alcohol intolerance East Asians are genetically far more likely to suffer from it because when it came to drinking and purifying water, westerners lent into alcohol historically whereas China etc lent into Tea. That's within the span of human history.
Within a fantasy setting, one has to assume that it makes sense that there exists some regional homogeneity, as we are talking about pre-industrial civilisations where regions would be largely distinct aide from trading ports where you might encounter some fleeting interchange, which is how and why Amazon's blanket commitment to diversity quotas within their shows feels so utterly jarring in the case of these sort of properties versus modern day or Sci-Fi (The Expanse is a great example of having it work well). Even more, given they're essentially adding diversity to what is already diverse. It's not enough that Halflings are different from humans or elves already, now we've got black Halflings.
It would make more sense to make all the dwarves black actors all the Elves Asian Actors and all the Halflings Welsh or something. That way what they are doing would at least feel less jarring. For all its faults as a series, GoT at least recognised Geographical aspects to the diversity of its cast of characters, sensibly introducing it as the storyline progressed. If Netflix or Amazon Studios had produced it, half the Free Folk would probably be Samoans or some such.
Within a fantasy setting, one has to assume that it makes sense that there exists some regional homogeneity, as we are talking about pre-industrial civilisations where regions would be largely distinct aide from trading ports where you might encounter some fleeting interchange, which is how and why Amazon's blanket commitment to diversity quotas within their shows feels so utterly jarring in the case of these sort of properties versus modern day or Sci-Fi (The Expanse is a great example of having it work well). Even more, given they're essentially adding diversity to what is already diverse. It's not enough that Halflings are different from humans or elves already, now we've got black Halflings.
It would make more sense to make all the dwarves black actors all the Elves Asian Actors and all the Halflings Welsh or something. That way what they are doing would at least feel less jarring. For all its faults as a series, GoT at least recognised Geographical aspects to the diversity of its cast of characters, sensibly introducing it as the storyline progressed. If Netflix or Amazon Studios had produced it, half the Free Folk would probably be Samoans or some such.
GreyHorace
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Not all of Prime's originals are bad. Reacher was pretty good, as was their adaptation of Good Omens.
But speaking of fantasy, does anyone remember Amazon's Carnival Row?
It even stars Legolas himself Orlando Bloom, yet it came and went and barely made any waves. I'm guessing Amazon quietly canned it despite being announced for a 2nd season. I personally couldn't even finish the first episode.
Firstly I don't put things in any dude's mouth ….you want that, go to reset era.
Secondly before things get lost in translation. I'm for diversity as there things other cultures can do better than mine and visa versa. And also economic value which is measurable.
If we talking about what @WesternBlood was saying about it being the word being Trojan horse for tokenism
I'm 100% against token hires and also 100% against diversity hires in LOTR as I stated earlier in the thread. That me.
If we gonna keep tangoing let's do it in another thread. Some other time.
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manfestival
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Not all of Prime's originals are bad. Reacher was pretty good, as was their adaptation of Good Omens.
But speaking of fantasy, does anyone remember Amazon's Carnival Row?
It even stars Legolas himself Orlando Bloom, yet it came and went and barely made any waves. I'm guessing Amazon quietly canned it despite being announced for a 2nd season. I personally couldn't even finish the first episode.
At the very least you inspired me to add Cara Delevingne to the sharp knees thread in The Tavern ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
As for the show. I remember there was that Netflix film 'Bright' with Will Smith that was a modern-day take of the same premise in that Faerie folk/humanoids and Humans lived side by side and it didn't particularly work well there (although IIRC a sequel was discussed that never transpired) and I didn't have much faith it would here either esp given Bloom was an insipid choice for the lead.
Not all of Prime's originals are bad. Reacher was pretty good, as was their adaptation of Good Omens.
But speaking of fantasy, does anyone remember Amazon's Carnival Row?
It even stars Legolas himself Orlando Bloom, yet it came and went and barely made any waves. I'm guessing Amazon quietly canned it despite being announced for a 2nd season. I personally couldn't even finish the first episode.
Watched it and it was weird. There is a second season coming right
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Never watched Bright as I thought from the trailers it looked like ass. I did watch a video takedown by Lindsay Ellis who called out it's lazy and half assed attempts at world building.
Wow. Orcs as gangbangers and Elves as the elitist one percent? How original.
I remember seeing previews for this but never watched it. Maybe I should give it a go.
It wasn't great, but even weirder was the fact that there were still humans in the mix at all levels. There were still human gangbangers etc. Honestly, though I suspect it would have worked much better as a series versus a film and I dare say without paying Will Smith probably an insane amount of money, they might have been able to have done that.
Remember, watching their show is how they determine if people like this kind of content. The fewer people watch, the less data they have showing that people approve of the content. I will definitely not be watching, as even from what little has been shown, it is obvious that the creators have no respect for the works of Tolkien.
Now this is quite the whopper! 1.7 million out of a population of 1.4 billion is not what I would call 'a lot'.
I agree, it would likely be harder to get good sleep with all that sun!
I didn't think it was particularly great or well executed, but I don't think it was anywhere near as bad as the reactions found online would lead you to believe.
Still a lot more than historical and more than most nations.
So yes they're still flocking
Still a lot more than historical and more than most nations.
So yes they're still flocking
groan-inducing
It's not a bad movie. Good concept but it felt rushed. I like the idea of rich elves being pricks
I was kind of hoping that they would do a sequel, so they could iron out the issues, but I guess that never transpired (although I was sure they talked about it). It certainly set up a continuation IIRC. I guess the best way to describe it would be muddled, which is why the series approach would have been a better road to go down to figure out their world-building.
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I wonder if watching the first episode and then not watching any more would be more effective? The dropoff from episode 1 to episode 2 of the netflix Cowboy Bebop was pretty impressive and then they announced it was cancelled pretty quickly.