David Tennant and Catherine Tate return to Doctor Who

Thread: David Tennant and Catherine Tate return to Doctor Who
Amorous Biscuit said:
I just watched it, it was a more fun affair than I imagined but it completely manages to shit itself by the end of the episode with a completely disconnected and jarring resolution to both the episode and Doctor Donna's meta crisis.

Ludicrous, hilarious, fucking lousy. I cannot believe RTD actually thought that was a good way to resolve a 15 year plot issue.

The crowbarring of pronouns, gender identity and transgenderism continues to be at odds with reality and it's creating unrealistic scenarios for television (even in a fun Sci fi show)

I honestly am stunned. Watch it and see just how bad it gets by the end of the episode, flabbergasted doesn't even cover it.
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Davies wants to have his cake and to eat it too, having a 60 year old escapist scifi program be the vehicle for his progressive beliefs despite it going against the core concept of said show being and ESCAPE from reality. Back in 2005 when he first brought back Doctor Who, he managed to subtly insert his progressive schtick into the show without being jarring. Now though? He's thoroughly pounding the message into the viewer's heads. What a cunt.
 
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Remember the 50th anniversary "Day of the Doctor" special when they first brought back Tennant? How far we have fallen...

That special was for the fans, all the way through. It had no overt political agenda, and was easily embraced by multiple generations of Who viewers. It was also fun, and respected the franchise.

Compare that to this absolutely embarrassing propaganda.
 
Resurrected Contrarian said:
Remember the 50th anniversary "Day of the Doctor" special when they first brought back Tennant? How far we have fallen...

That special was for the fans, all the way through. It had no overt political agenda, and was easily embraced by multiple generations of Who viewers. It was also fun, and respected the franchise.

Compare that to this absolutely embarrassing propaganda.
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I'd actually argue the 50th anniversary is around where the rot began to set in. We already had Mary Sue Clara present, barely any of the classic doctors got any representation, beyond the brief cameo by Tom Baker, and the War Doctor set a precedent of actively retconning the doctors personal history, in a show that had very specifically come back to undo the damage such short sighted changes for shock value had done previously, with the 8th Doctors 'half human' bollocks.

Also another video ripping this bollocks apart.

 
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Stilton Disco said:
I'd actually argue the 50th anniversary is around where the rot began to set in. We already had Mary Sue Clara present, barely any of the classic doctors got any representation, beyond the brief cameo by Tom Baker, and the War Doctor set a precedent of actively retconning the doctors personal history, in a show that had very specifically come back to undo the damage such short sighted changes for shock value had done previously, with the 8th Doctors 'half human' bollocks.

Also another video ripping this bollocks apart.

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I will not stand for Clara Oswald slander 😭😭
 
Amorous Biscuit said:
I will not stand for Clara Oswald slander 😭😭
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I'd definitely give her one, and the actress was perfectly competent, even likeable as the first 2 characters she played, but Clara was an absolute travesty of identity politics over good storytelling.

It is no coincidence that the single best episode of the show, during her time as a companion, didn't have her in it because she was dead.
 
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Stilton Disco said:
I'd actually argue the 50th anniversary is around where the rot began to set in. We already had Mary Sue Clara present, barely any of the classic doctors got any representation, beyond the brief cameo by Tom Baker, and the War Doctor set a precedent of actively retconning the doctors personal history, in a show that had very specifically come back to undo the damage such short sighted changes for shock value had done previously, with the 8th Doctors 'half human' bollocks.
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Nah. I'd argue the rot started to set in during season 6 , the 11th Doctor's 2nd season, when Steven Moffat started huffing his own farts and indulged his worst excesses as a writer. Timey-wimey plots, mediocre filler episodes. godawful overarching storylines and awful farewells for beloved companions. You called Clara a Mary Sue? I'd argue Moffat's pet character River Song was way worse in that regard and I just groaned every time she made an appearance. It didn't help when the Moff's 2nd season storyline revolved around the mystery surrounding her true identity.

It's funny, but I consider the 50th anniversary special one of the high points of Moffat's run and I loved the chemistry between David Tennant and Matt Smith. I wish we had more multi doctor stories with the two of them. My real big gripe is how the 8th Doctor Paul Mcgann got relegated to a 10-min webisode to show his regeneration into the War Doctor. For me, Mcgann should have been the Doctor during the Time War and not John Hurt. I get that Moffat originally wanted Christopher Eccleston to reprise his role as the 9th but had to write in John Hurt after the former refused, but Mcgann would have been fantastic playing opposite Matt Smith and David Tennant. It would given his Doctor the proper sendoff he so deserved.

Stilton Disco said:
I'd definitely give her one, and the actress was perfectly competent, even likeable as the first 2 characters she played, but Clara was an absolute travesty of identity politics over good storytelling.
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I'm curious as to why you say this. Clara a travesty of identity politics? To be honest I never really liked her character even though I like Jenna Coleman.
 
Stilton Disco said:
and the War Doctor set a precedent of actively retconning the doctors personal history
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This part was unnecessary, sure, and I guess it could have set the precedent for recons that they used to absolutely destroy the Doctor's character and past in the recent "timeless children" thing

GreyHorace said:
Nah. I'd argue the rot started to set in during season 6 , the 11th Doctor's 2nd season, when Steven Moffat started huffing his own farts and indulged his worst excesses as a writer. Timey-wimey plots, mediocre filler episodes. godawful overarching storylines and awful farewells for beloved companions. You called Clara a Mary Sue? I'd argue Moffat's pet character River Song was way worse in that regard and I just groaned every time she made an appearance. It didn't help when the Moff's 2nd season storyline revolved around the mystery surrounding her true identity.
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Agreed, Moffat is excellent at the start of things (both on Who and on early Sherlock seasons) but after a while he tends to ruin things by turning the characters into larger than life superheroes with bizarre levels of sentimentality for the fans, plus increasingly convoluted plotlines. I wish he could keep his excesses under control, because he was a fantastic writer at his peak, like The Eleventh Hour and that season in general.

And River Song got worse every time she appeared, to the point to where I hate her character now and can barely watch he earlier good episodes (like the library). She became a legend in the story over time, like all his characters, growing beyond their beginnings into some kind of fan fiction.
 
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Resurrected Contrarian said:
Agreed, Moffat is excellent at the start of things (both on Who and on early Sherlock seasons) but after a while he tends to ruin things by turning the characters into larger than life superheroes with bizarre levels of sentimentality for the fans, plus increasingly convoluted plotlines. I wish he could keep his excesses under control, because he was a fantastic writer at his peak, like The Eleventh Hour and that season in general.
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Yeah. Turning the Doctor into some larger than life figure really annoyed to me no end, especially in the latter half of Moffat's run, and even RTD's. It got in the way of him actually doing stuff and letting the plot unfold naturally, but somewhere within the episode we have to get a mention of the Time Lord Victorious once in awhile that it made me roll my eyes. On occasion though his godlike reputation (and his ego because of it) could be used to great effect. Like in Midnight (ironically written by Russell T. Davies), where all of his charm and supposed authority was wasted on an angry group of people who were scared out of their minds. To the point where the mighty Doctor was reduced to the role of a helpless bystander who couldn't do anything, so it's up to a side character to save the day at the end. It's one of the best episodes of Davies' run and I wish he wrote more episodes like that.

Resurrected Contrarian said:
And River Song got worse every time she appeared, to the point to where I hate her character now and can barely watch he earlier good episodes (like the library). She became a legend in the story over time, like all his characters, growing beyond their beginnings into some kind of fan fiction.
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Heh. I think hardcore Whovians will recognize that River Song is just an expy of a much better character, that being Bernice Summerfield from the New Adventures novels. There's no way Moffat didn't know about her when he created River.
 
Amorous Biscuit said:


Who Bros, it's over 😭😭
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I think if people genuinely cared about pronouns etc there are better ways to do this in a show with aliens and shit like that.

The way they are dealing with it here they are as close as it's possible to get to characters just looking right at the camera and having a moan about modern cultural issues.

It's maybe interesting to see that geek and nerd culture has been completely transformed in the past 10 to 15 years. To the point where the kind of audience that Doctor Who would like to attract legitimately NEEDS to spell out The Message as clearly and precisely as possible.

The Doctor could, for example, refer to any aliens with the "They/Them" pronouns and sort of leave it at that. However, and we'll know this from seeing how places like ResetEra and TikTok operate, they have to be extremely careful not to get any crossed wires with the audience so what needs to happen is that The Doctor misgenders the episode's villain so that a sidekick character can step in and scold The Doctor over incorrect pronoun usage.

See also the constant comments about women. Even going as far as to have a tangent explaining why a character got married but wouldn't take her husband's name. They can't even have a character simply just get married.

It's sad that a sci-fi classic has really been transformed into this super woke pandering nonsense.

I'd say that even just a couple of minutes with the hosts of the official Doctor Who Podcast reveals exactly the kind of new nerd audience the show is looking to court.

 
Yup, by their own logic, they are constantly trying to associate able bodies white men with evil, why would anyone who isn't self hating support that?
 
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Second episode was brilliant with no woke pandering apart from one throw away joke line. Really enjoyed it. A true mystery and really wild special effects. Think along the lines of the episode Midnight, only not quite to that level.
 
You know what... I don't care how ridiculous or crazy or stupid it was, seeing David Tennant's Doctor getting to live out his life and saying "I've never been so happy in my life" made it all worth it. No matter how good or bad the 15th doctor proves to be, this is a nice final bow wrapped and tied on the Doctor Who era. I'm happy.
 
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