Hostile Faceoff: Controller vs Mouse & Keyboard

[regawdless]

I have extensive knowledge of Duke 3D, Doom and Quake and can't think of you can get a lesser experience with them using a controller. I played both ways substantially.

Doom 2016 for example is so much better with a mouse despite being designed for controllers as well. I pulled off the wildest shit, so good. Which is physically impossible to do with a controller.

Everyone plays differently though and it's all about having fun, we're just busting each others balls here for the lulz.

I have fun actually hitting things and playing well. While you have fun playing Basketball while being in a wheelchair. To each their own!

 

[Hostile_18]

I was thinking the old school floppy disc Dooms lol.

Where do controllers with paddles fit in?

 

[DonDonDonPata]

Depends on what I'm playing. I grew up playing PCs and only really got into consoles during the Xbox/PS2 generation. Keyboard and mouse is more familiar to me, but I also like convenience and ease of use. I also stand up when playing games a lot, so unless I have a platform underneath the keyboard, controller wins by default. Modern twin stick controllers with properly implemented gyro controls can handle the stuff I throw at it. I wish touch controls (like Steam controller or PS touchpad) were more ubiquitous, that's an area where controllers need to improve.

 

[Hostile_18]

Depends on what I'm playing. I grew up playing PCs and only really got into consoles during the Xbox/PS2 generation. Keyboard and mouse is more familiar to me, but I also like convenience and ease of use. I also stand up when playing games a lot, so unless I have a platform underneath the keyboard, controller wins by default. Modern twin stick controllers with properly implemented gyro controls can handle the stuff I throw at it. I wish touch controls (like Steam controller or PS touchpad) were more ubiquitous, that's an area where controllers need to improve.

I've never heard of anyone standing up while playing games outside of VR. The idea horrifies me, but I think because between work and the gym the last thing I want to do is be standing when I'm relaxing lol.

 

[Hostile_18]

Two more votes and General Heinz can know the sweet taste of defeat once more

 

[Nikana]

Depends on what I'm playing. I grew up playing PCs and only really got into consoles during the Xbox/PS2 generation. Keyboard and mouse is more familiar to me, but I also like convenience and ease of use. I also stand up when playing games a lot, so unless I have a platform underneath the keyboard, controller wins by default. Modern twin stick controllers with properly implemented gyro controls can handle the stuff I throw at it. I wish touch controls (like Steam controller or PS touchpad) were more ubiquitous, that's an area where controllers need to improve.

I'm sorry...you stand up? While playing games? Are you an alien?

 

[Hostile_18]

I'm genuinely interested in @DonDonDonPata story. This is thread worthy on its own! Did you try it once and like it? Is there some healthy benefit to it? What's the longest standing game session you've done?

 

[DonDonDonPata]

I'm sorry...you stand up? While playing games? Are you an alien?

I also wfh at my computer standing up. Keyboard on the desk is nice, but the problem is that is not the most comfy mouse position. I have a dedicated "arcade TV" tipped sideways with an arcade stick in front of it, also for standing up. Mostly I stand in front of my TV and play that way. I didn't switch to it because of "benefits", neither health nor some gaming-specific "boost". I already played a lot of games standing up like DDR or Wii or even holding onto a Vita or DS and playing it while pacing the room.

EDIT: oh and longest gaming session? Hard to say because I don't try to max out my time. I regularly spend 6+ hours per day on my feet, gaming or not. I'm at the point where I begin to feel "antsy" if I am sitting for way too long.

Or to put it another way, it's much easier for me to game for 2+ hours by staying on my feet and moving around than disappearing into the couch cushions and possibly falling asleep. I do have 4 kids

 

[Snes nes]

Really I use both. The responsiveness of your controller is entirely dependent on your peripherals and sometimes software your using. Bluetooth can cause lag and a ps/2 keyboard or something that predates that can be slower than a usb device but thats a very minute difference. For me when I play games on controller my thumbs end up hurting me as of late so I swap to keyboard to avoid that and I find playing games on a keyboard to be a little quicker at times but can cause issues depending on what your doing. Old games can act a little funky on a keyboard since your peripheral is way too fast for it but that only matters if your speedrunning or trying to play competitively but for accuracy you probably want to use the games said peripheral which could be a arcade stick keyboard or controller but if your not worried about any of that then it won't matter.

 

[Nikana]

I also wfh at my computer standing up. Keyboard on the desk is nice, but the problem is that is not the most comfy mouse position. I have a dedicated "arcade TV" tipped sideways with an arcade stick in front of it, also for standing up. Mostly I stand in front of my TV and play that way. I didn't switch to it because of "benefits", neither health nor some gaming-specific "boost". I already played a lot of games standing up like DDR or Wii or even holding onto a Vita or DS and playing it while pacing the room.

EDIT: oh and longest gaming session? Hard to say because I don't try to max out my time. I regularly spend 6+ hours per day on my feet, gaming or not. I'm at the point where I begin to feel "antsy" if I am sitting for way too long.

Or to put it another way, it's much easier for me to game for 2+ hours by staying on my feet and moving around than disappearing into the couch cushions and possibly falling asleep. I do have 4 kids

Pics of the setup or I don't believe you.

 

[Hardensoul]

I voted K/M, but when I play my Switch I really loved the split Joycons. I can play Split Joycons in a lot of possible position that's comfortable!

 

[teezzy]

We have different definitions of "great". They definitely "work" though.

The way people gush for dated FPS titles is so weird to me

Maybe I just dont have the nostalgia glasses

 

[Mickmrly]

I voted Controller because I am usually using the Keyboard and Mouse for other daily activities and it is more comfortable using the controller for relaxing.

Also in a head to head between both control options, I played fortnite with both and I am better with the controller. I can be more responsive with the controller and I find it easier to aim with the analog stick as well.

 

[DonDonDonPata]

I voted K/M, but when I play my Switch I really loved the split Joycons. I can play Split Joycons in a lot of possible position that's comfortable!

Akimbo controllers are great. I wish the VR controllers worked for everything and handled gyro and cursor-aiming even for "standard" games. While I like the controllers we have nowadays, I'd happily trade the "twin analog stick" paradigm for the "gyro, trigger, and touchpad" paradigm. Fewer buttons, imo.

 

[Ascend]

Mouse & Keyboard
Shooters
RTS
MMORPGs

Controller
Platformers
Fighters
Racers
Action/Adventure

Impossible to pick one. But since fighters are the best genre out there, I'm gonna pick controller.

 

[OuterSpace]

Echo post but if it requires aiming or using a reticle/pointer in some way then keyboard+mouse.

The rest on pad.

 

[zebraStraw]

If you play FPS with a controller, you're a potato.

Other than that, controller.

 

[Snes nes]

Mouse & Keyboard
Shooters
RTS
MMORPGs

Controller
Platformers
Fighters
Racers
Action/Adventure

Impossible to pick one. But since fighters are the best genre out there, I'm gonna pick controller.

I like fighters the most on keyboard/hitbox since the inputs are so much quicker.

 

[Ascend]

I like fighters the most on keyboard/hitbox since the inputs are so much quicker.

The only fighter I played on keyboard was KwonHo. And that was only because it had no controller support. Whichever fighter I pick, I play it with a controller. I tried using an arcade stick, but, I simply can't get used to it. It feels like it hampers my gameplay rather than helping it, so I'm sticking with a controller for fighters too.

 

[Zefah]

It obviously depends on the game, but if precise aiming is a big part of the gameplay, I almost always go for M+KB.

 

[Snes nes]

The only fighter I played on keyboard was KwonHo. And that was only because it had no controller support. Whichever fighter I pick, I play it with a controller. I tried using an arcade stick, but, I simply can't get used to it. It feels like it hampers my gameplay rather than helping it, so I'm sticking with a controller for fighters too.

arcade sticks aren't really something I ever liked I prefer more standard controllers maybe the saturn pad is the best controller I've never used lol.

 

[Hostile_18]

It obviously depends on the game, but if precise aiming is a big part of the gameplay, I almost always go for M+KB.

But on the other hand 95%+ of mainstream games are console born as so designed around a controller input regardless. That's what the difficulty and balance has been designed around. Its genuinely making the game easier than intended.

 

[HeresJohnny]

Fast games are fun. Like Anger Foot, which will release later this year. You have to finish the levels as fast as possible.

Here's me playing the demo:


Now you do that with a controller. Won't be enjoyable.

Shooters aren't the driving force of the industry they once were. In the 90s it seems like every game I played was a shooter, but now it's like every 5th or more. They're still relevant but I remember making the same case you just made, only with the Atari 2600 paddle and pong-type games.

 

[HeresJohnny]

Fuck the keyboard

Pretty much my stance. That shit was never meant to be a controller. Change my mind.

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

Last year though, I think like 80% of my gaming time was using a controller.

Elden Ring and such. Both input methods have their best use cases and if you only play certain kinds of games, going controller only will be fine as well.

I played elden ring with controller but sekiro with mnk.

 

[Hostile_18]

@Nobel 6 @Concern get these filthy hard-cores!

 

[Nobel 6]

@Nobel 6 @Concern get these filthy hard-cores!

Okay @Hostile_18 I'm in.
I'm controller 100%, it's become an extension of my arm. When I first went back to consoles with the 360 it took me about 30 seconds to acclimate to using a controller. It just feels natural to me. a few years later I tried to play the ME2 demo on my computer and after about 5 minutes I said screw this and gave up it felt so unnatural.

 

[Hostile_18]

Okay @Hostile_18 I'm in.
I'm controller 100%, it's become an extension of my arm. When I first went back to consoles with the 360 it took me about 30 seconds to acclimate to using a controller. It just feels natural to me. a few years later I tried to play the ME2 demo on my computer and after about 5 minutes I said screw this and gave up it felt so unnatural.

Thank you for sharing your truth so brave and I hope it inspires more people to come forward!

I had some adjustment period. Mainly because for a while N64 games had reverse axis movement by default. So up was down and down up. It was technically the more logical way to play but more and more games went the opposite direction. I dare say I could take out a few of these keyboard virgins with my controller skills now!

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

Thank you for sharing your truth so brave and I hope it inspires more people to come forward!

I had some adjustment period. Mainly because for a while N64 games had reverse axis movement by default. So up was down and down up. It was technically the more logical way to play but more and more games went the opposite direction. I dare say I could take out a few of these keyboard virgins with my controller skills now!

I'm 41. Played inverted my entire life. Earlier this year I decided to switch. Took a few months and found it more difficult to adjust on controller than mnk.

 

[HariSeldon]

The way people gush for dated FPS titles is so weird to me

Maybe I just dont have the nostalgia glasses

I would say that for the flaws they undoubtedly have, what they have in their favour is responsiveness. Most modern shooters are built around controllers so they have aim assist, etc and even mouse controls end up a bit gimped. Combine that with bloated engines with input lag, and level design built around laggy slow crappy controls, and modern shooters (in all their cinematic ffs let me play the fucking game glory) just aren't as much fun. You don't feel as connected to the action in the way you do with older shooters. Those games were made by geniuses at the top of their game, people who knew how to construct a 3D engine, who knew what they were doing, not a blue-haired feminist in sight. It's not nostalgia glasses, it's simply better games from a lost genre.

 

[Hostile_18]

I would say that for the flaws they undoubtedly have, what they have in their favour is responsiveness. Most modern shooters are built around controllers so they have aim assist, etc and even mouse controls end up a bit gimped. Combine that with bloated engines with input lag, and level design built around laggy slow crappy controls, and modern shooters (in all their cinematic ffs let me play the fucking game glory) just aren't as much fun. You don't feel as connected to the action in the way you do with older shooters. Those games were made by geniuses at the top of their game, people who knew how to construct a 3D engine, who knew what they were doing, not a blue-haired feminist in sight. It's not nostalgia glasses, it's simply better games from a lost genre.

Are you sure its not more the earlier games were the revolution and everything since evolution? Like for me its hard not think of Zelda: OoT and Mario 64 as the greatest in their respective genres, but its not true, there's a lot of psychological elements at play IMO.

Modern controllers have so much flexibility and buttons these days, no way id equate them with "laggy, slow, crappy controls". If anything its more accurate to the player character, than say a human who can snipe kill, at 200 meters away I mentioned previously but a battle between two characters including a few whiffs, is far more exciting to me than sniping a small pixel on the screen from miles off.

 

[HariSeldon]

Are you sure its not more the earlier games were the revolution and everything since evolution? Like for me its hard not think of Zelda: OoT and Mario 64 as the greatest in their respective genres, but its not true, there's a lot of psychological elements at play IMO.

Modern controllers have so much flexibility and buttons these days, no way id equate them with "laggy, slow, crappy controls". If anything its more accurate to the player character, than say a human who can snipe kill, at 200 meters away I mentioned previously but a battle between two characters including a few whiffs, is far more exciting to me than sniping a small pixel on the screen from miles off.

Reducto ad absurdium I'm afraid. I'm not arguing for sniping. Consider that some controllers are simply better for some tasks, so for instance a wheel and pedals is a far better way to play a driving game than a standard controller or keyboard. The reason in this case is the muscle memory and precision of movement - you have to move the wheel a long way vs the tiny movement area on a controller, and with the pedals you can get load cell brakes which mean you have to apply more pressure to move the brake more, further enhancing muscle memory, while retaining the larger throw that makes it more nuanced than your controller can provide. Now you can absolutely do it with a controller, but it's just not as much fun. Games designed for wheel and pedals tend to be very hard to play on a controller while controller games tend to feel like the handling is a bit dead on a wheel and pedals due to all the assists.

Now back to shooters - I don't find myself sniping people particularly often, more often it's a shitload of enemies everywhere and I'm trying to shoot as many as I can. With a mouse, there is a precise physical location on my mouse mat that relates to looking in a precise and specific direction, and there's that larger throw area than you have with a controller again. On the controller you're not moving to a specific location but setting the turning speed, with poor precision, which makes for a less intuitive and less realistic experience of turning towards your enemy. For me, that greater connection, combined with lower input lag, makes old school shooters more fun than new ones.

 

[gameragodzilla]

I mostly play shooters, so mouse and keyboard. However, I do acknowledge controllers are better for many other genres so I keep my Xbox controller handy.

Also have an IR bar for Dolphin connected to my Wiimotes.

 

[DonDonDonPata]

Honestly, removing aim-correction and adjusting deadzones goes a very long way to making a controller "viable" for shooters. Using two analog sticks for strafe-shooting works fine for me in non-competitive sp and local mp, and sniping isn't too bad even when I have to aim raw. Gyro is a nice enhancement that closes the gap even further.

 

[zebraStraw]

Thank you for sharing your truth so brave and I hope it inspires more people to come forward!

I had some adjustment period. Mainly because for a while N64 games had reverse axis movement by default. So up was down and down up. It was technically the more logical way to play but more and more games went the opposite direction. I dare say I could take out a few of these keyboard virgins with my controller skills now!

We need the cap reaction.

Maybe in games with aimbot aim assist.

 

[Still can't decide]

Controller for absolutely everything unless it's something with lots of pointing and clicking like Cities Skylines or Motorsport Manager.

Been doing the "comfy couch" gaming with controllers and big flat screen TVs on my PCs for nigh 20 years now and wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[Dacon]

I am here once again advocating for the use of gyro aim.

If you enjoy the comfort of a controller and the precision of a mouse this is the best way to bridge the gap. I played through all of RE4 remake and got S+ rank in Professional using gyro, and I did so comfortably playing on my 4k tv while in bed.

 

[synchronicity]

I'm primarily PC and primarily controller, which is probably not the most common of a demographic. I will use M&K when it makes most sense, which for me, isn't that often.

 

[Hostile_18]

I am here once again advocating for the use of gyro aim.

If you enjoy the comfort of a controller and the precision of a mouse this is the best way to bridge the gap. I played through all of RE4 remake and got S+ rank in Professional using gyro, and I did so comfortably playing on my 4k tv while in bed.

Is it a preset control scheme on Steam? What's it called. I'll give it a go.

 

[Dacon]

Is it a preset control scheme on Steam? What's it called. I'll give it a go.

The default steam template is "Gamepad with Mouse and Gyro" . Steam input has a bunch of templates, and there's tons of community presets you can choose from for specific games.

I prefer to individually set up profiles myself so I get the exact amount of control I want. Steam input has an insane amount of customizability, basically allowing you to completely program the function of every single button on the controller to whatever you want.

Personally I prefer having a default ps5 controller layout, with gyro enabled. I basically have my entire right stick mapped to the gyro.

What you wanna do is set an activation button for the gyro, whether it's a left trigger pull, always on, or a touchpad activation. I personally have the gyro mapped to right pad touch, so I can reset the gyro whenever necessary(basically emulating picking up a mouse and putting it back down when you reach the end of your mouse pad). Some people like having it mapped to pulling the left trigger so the gyro only enables when they ads/zoom while aiming, retaining a basic controller layout otherwise.

Some steam games don't support simultaneous controller and mouse input(or controller input at all), so I set the controller to completely emulate mouse and keyboard for games like Max Payne 1 and 2.

Here's a list of games that support simultaneous input:

List of games that support simultaneous input - PCGamingWiki PCGW - bugs, fixes, crashes, mods, guides and improvements for every PC game

www.pcgamingwiki.com