Thread: Weekly Bible Reading Thread
May a muslim man join you lot and read with you?

Sure. We're just going through the book of Proverbs at the moment, a couple of chapters at a time. A new reading is posted at the start of each week. Some readings are easier to interpret than others, but usually there is something to talk about within the readings each week.
 
This week's reading is Proverbs 3-4:


Wisdom Bestows Well-Being
3
My son, do not forget my teaching,
but keep my commands in your heart,
2 for they will prolong your life many years
and bring you peace and prosperity.
3 Let love and faithfulness never leave you;
bind them around your neck,
write them on the tablet of your heart.
4 Then you will win favor and a good name
in the sight of God and man.
5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways submit to him,
and he will make your paths straight.[a]
7 Do not be wise in your own eyes;
fear the Lord and shun evil.
8 This will bring health to your body
and nourishment to your bones.
9 Honor the Lord with your wealth,
with the firstfruits of all your crops;
10 then your barns will be filled to overflowing,
and your vats will brim over with new wine.
11 My son, do not despise the Lord's discipline,
and do not resent his rebuke,
12 because the Lord disciplines those he loves,
as a father the son he delights in.[b]
13 Blessed are those who find wisdom,
those who gain understanding,
14 for she is more profitable than silver
and yields better returns than gold.
15 She is more precious than rubies;
nothing you desire can compare with her.
16 Long life is in her right hand;
in her left hand are riches and honor.
17 Her ways are pleasant ways,
and all her paths are peace.
18 She is a tree of life to those who take hold of her;
those who hold her fast will be blessed.
19 By wisdom the Lord laid the earth's foundations,
by understanding he set the heavens in place;
20 by his knowledge the watery depths were divided,
and the clouds let drop the dew.
21 My son, do not let wisdom and understanding out of your sight,
preserve sound judgment and discretion;
22 they will be life for you,
an ornament to grace your neck.
23 Then you will go on your way in safety,
and your foot will not stumble.
24 When you lie down, you will not be afraid;
when you lie down, your sleep will be sweet.
25 Have no fear of sudden disaster
or of the ruin that overtakes the wicked,
26 for the Lord will be at your side
and will keep your foot from being snared.
27 Do not withhold good from those to whom it is due,
when it is in your power to act.
28 Do not say to your neighbor,
"Come back tomorrow and I'll give it to you"—
when you already have it with you.
29 Do not plot harm against your neighbor,
who lives trustfully near you.
30 Do not accuse anyone for no reason—
when they have done you no harm.
31 Do not envy the violent
or choose any of their ways.
32 For the Lord detests the perverse
but takes the upright into his confidence.
33 The Lord's curse is on the house of the wicked,
but he blesses the home of the righteous.
34 He mocks proud mockers
but shows favor to the humble and oppressed.
35 The wise inherit honor,
but fools get only shame.

Get Wisdom at Any Cost
4
Listen, my sons, to a father's instruction;
pay attention and gain understanding.
2 I give you sound learning,
so do not forsake my teaching.
3 For I too was a son to my father,
still tender, and cherished by my mother.
4 Then he taught me, and he said to me,
"Take hold of my words with all your heart;
keep my commands, and you will live.
5 Get wisdom, get understanding;
do not forget my words or turn away from them.
6 Do not forsake wisdom, and she will protect you;
love her, and she will watch over you.
7 The beginning of wisdom is this: Get[c] wisdom.
Though it cost all you have,[d] get understanding.
8 Cherish her, and she will exalt you;
embrace her, and she will honor you.
9 She will give you a garland to grace your head
and present you with a glorious crown."
10 Listen, my son, accept what I say,
and the years of your life will be many.
11 I instruct you in the way of wisdom
and lead you along straight paths.
12 When you walk, your steps will not be hampered;
when you run, you will not stumble.
13 Hold on to instruction, do not let it go;
guard it well, for it is your life.
14 Do not set foot on the path of the wicked
or walk in the way of evildoers.
15 Avoid it, do not travel on it;
turn from it and go on your way.
16 For they cannot rest until they do evil;
they are robbed of sleep till they make someone stumble.
17 They eat the bread of wickedness
and drink the wine of violence.
18 The path of the righteous is like the morning sun,
shining ever brighter till the full light of day.
19 But the way of the wicked is like deep darkness;
they do not know what makes them stumble.
20 My son, pay attention to what I say;
turn your ear to my words.
21 Do not let them out of your sight,
keep them within your heart;
22 for they are life to those who find them
and health to one's whole body.
23 Above all else, guard your heart,
for everything you do flows from it.
24 Keep your mouth free of perversity;
keep corrupt talk far from your lips.
25 Let your eyes look straight ahead;
fix your gaze directly before you.
26 Give careful thought to the[e] paths for your feet
and be steadfast in all your ways.
27 Do not turn to the right or the left;
keep your foot from evil.

 
A bit late with my thoughts but one thing I like about the first couple chapters (and a theme throughout proverbs) is the gaining of wisdom/knowledge being tied into the idea you learn through faults you make. A lot of people don't want to hear it when they are wrong (see one of the many threads here where someone has a meltdown and leaves). In their mind they can't be wrong and it's everyone else's fault. But a wise person will take the criticism to heart and not find it offensive. They'll see where they went wrong and learn from it. That's one way how you gain "knowledge and wisdom".

I also wonder about the strange woman mentioned throughout proverbs. How do you know a strange woman? The most obvious interpretation are the easy girls you meet at the bar, women without values or morals. But maybe it goes a bit further than just that.
 
A bit late with my thoughts but one thing I like about the first couple chapters (and a theme throughout proverbs) is the gaining of wisdom/knowledge being tied into the idea you learn through faults you make. A lot of people don't want to hear it when they are wrong (see one of the many threads here where someone has a meltdown and leaves). In their mind they can't be wrong and it's everyone else's fault. But a wise person will take the criticism to heart and not find it offensive. They'll see where they went wrong and learn from it. That's one way how you gain "knowledge and wisdom".

I also wonder about the strange woman mentioned throughout proverbs. How do you know a strange woman? The most obvious interpretation are the easy girls you meet at the bar, women without values or morals. But maybe it goes a bit further than just that.

There's a good summary/distinction between the two women in Ch 9, after several chapters of describing their behavior:

Wisdom has built a house and invites people in for a feast, for the purpose of guiding people to walk in the ways of wisdom and understanding. The food is a bonus, but the goal of listening to Wisdom's invitation is to begin walking in the ways of wisdom.

The strange woman/foolish woman also has a house: she calls out and offers stolen food. In her case, the food is the whole point. The pleasure and fleeting feelings are the whole point. She doesn't even know that she is teaching people the path of death.

The strange woman lacks self awareness or any notion of long term choices. She doesn't realize her invitation is killing her guests, yet she continues calling loudly. Wisdom is always trying to preserve life and protect the naive. She offers a feast as a hook, not as the end goal.
 
Ch. 3+4 there is a lot of King Solomon expressing how vital wisdom, knowledge, and understand is. The verses below point to all those things (wisdom, knowledge, understanding) being valuable tools actually used, put to use, by the Lord to create the heavens and the earth. And a side note, Solomon also is very adamant about keeping to the narrow path in the fourth chapter. Do not step foot on the path of wickedness, but keep to the path of righteousness.

Proverbs 3:19-20 By wisdom the Lord laid the earth's foundations, by understanding he set the heavens in place by his knowledge the watery depths were divided, and the clouds let drop the dew.
 
Proverbs 3:3-4 NIV

Let love and faithfulness never leave you;
bind them around your neck,
write them on the tablet of your heart.
Then you will win favor and a good name
in the sight of God and man.
 
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Proverbs 3:19-20 By wisdom the Lord laid the earth's foundations, by understanding he set the heavens in place by his knowledge the watery depths were divided, and the clouds let drop the dew.

This has been interpreted as an early statement about the scientific nature of the material universe. God didn't spin the universe together on a loom or hatch it out of an egg like other religions of Solomon's time might've suggested. No. All of creation was made with precision, efficiency, and wisdom.

The interconnected nature of the universe and its laws is one of the strongest positive proofs of an intelligent designer. Solomon could see the intricate order and wisdom of all creation, only possible by an all-wise God.
 
This week's reading is Proverbs 5-7, concerning adultery:


Warning Against Adultery
5
My son, pay attention to my wisdom,
turn your ear to my words of insight,
2 that you may maintain discretion
and your lips may preserve knowledge.
3 For the lips of the adulterous woman drip honey,
and her speech is smoother than oil;
4 but in the end she is bitter as gall,
sharp as a double-edged sword.
5 Her feet go down to death;
her steps lead straight to the grave.
6 She gives no thought to the way of life;
her paths wander aimlessly, but she does not know it.
7 Now then, my sons, listen to me;
do not turn aside from what I say.
8 Keep to a path far from her,
do not go near the door of her house,
9 lest you lose your honor to others
and your dignity[a] to one who is cruel,
10 lest strangers feast on your wealth
and your toil enrich the house of another.
11 At the end of your life you will groan,
when your flesh and body are spent.
12 You will say, "How I hated discipline!
How my heart spurned correction!
13 I would not obey my teachers
or turn my ear to my instructors.
14 And I was soon in serious trouble
in the assembly of God's people."
15 Drink water from your own cistern,
running water from your own well.
16 Should your springs overflow in the streets,
your streams of water in the public squares?
17 Let them be yours alone,
never to be shared with strangers.
18 May your fountain be blessed,
and may you rejoice in the wife of your youth.
19 A loving doe, a graceful deer—
may her breasts satisfy you always,
may you ever be intoxicated with her love.
20 Why, my son, be intoxicated with another man's wife?
Why embrace the bosom of a wayward woman?
21 For your ways are in full view of the Lord,
and he examines all your paths.
22 The evil deeds of the wicked ensnare them;
the cords of their sins hold them fast.
23 For lack of discipline they will die,
led astray by their own great folly.

Warnings Against Folly
6
My son, if you have put up security for your neighbor,
if you have shaken hands in pledge for a stranger,
2 you have been trapped by what you said,
ensnared by the words of your mouth.
3 So do this, my son, to free yourself,
since you have fallen into your neighbor's hands:
Go—to the point of exhaustion—[b]
and give your neighbor no rest!
4 Allow no sleep to your eyes,
no slumber to your eyelids.
5 Free yourself, like a gazelle from the hand of the hunter,
like a bird from the snare of the fowler.
6 Go to the ant, you sluggard;
consider its ways and be wise!
7 It has no commander,
no overseer or ruler,
8 yet it stores its provisions in summer
and gathers its food at harvest.
9 How long will you lie there, you sluggard?
When will you get up from your sleep?
10 A little sleep, a little slumber,
a little folding of the hands to rest—
11 and poverty will come on you like a thief
and scarcity like an armed man.
12 A troublemaker and a villain,
who goes about with a corrupt mouth,
13 who winks maliciously with his eye,
signals with his feet
and motions with his fingers,
14 who plots evil with deceit in his heart—
he always stirs up conflict.
15 Therefore disaster will overtake him in an instant;
he will suddenly be destroyed—without remedy.
16 There are six things the Lord hates,
seven that are detestable to him:
17 haughty eyes,
a lying tongue,
hands that shed innocent blood,
18 a heart that devises wicked schemes,
feet that are quick to rush into evil,
19 a false witness who pours out lies
and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.

Warning Against Adultery
20 My son, keep your father's command
and do not forsake your mother's teaching.
21 Bind them always on your heart;
fasten them around your neck.
22 When you walk, they will guide you;
when you sleep, they will watch over you;
when you awake, they will speak to you.
23 For this command is a lamp,
this teaching is a light,
and correction and instruction
are the way to life,
24 keeping you from your neighbor's wife,
from the smooth talk of a wayward woman.
25 Do not lust in your heart after her beauty
or let her captivate you with her eyes.
26 For a prostitute can be had for a loaf of bread,
but another man's wife preys on your very life.
27 Can a man scoop fire into his lap
without his clothes being burned?
28 Can a man walk on hot coals
without his feet being scorched?
29 So is he who sleeps with another man's wife;
no one who touches her will go unpunished.
30 People do not despise a thief if he steals
to satisfy his hunger when he is starving.
31 Yet if he is caught, he must pay sevenfold,
though it costs him all the wealth of his house.
32 But a man who commits adultery has no sense;
whoever does so destroys himself.
33 Blows and disgrace are his lot,
and his shame will never be wiped away.
34 For jealousy arouses a husband's fury,
and he will show no mercy when he takes revenge.
35 He will not accept any compensation;
he will refuse a bribe, however great it is.

Warning Against the Adulterous Woman
7
My son, keep my words
and store up my commands within you.
2 Keep my commands and you will live;
guard my teachings as the apple of your eye.
3 Bind them on your fingers;
write them on the tablet of your heart.
4 Say to wisdom, "You are my sister,"
and to insight, "You are my relative."
5 They will keep you from the adulterous woman,
from the wayward woman with her seductive words.
6 At the window of my house
I looked down through the lattice.
7 I saw among the simple,
I noticed among the young men,
a youth who had no sense.
8 He was going down the street near her corner,
walking along in the direction of her house
9 at twilight, as the day was fading,
as the dark of night set in.
10 Then out came a woman to meet him,
dressed like a prostitute and with crafty intent.
11 (She is unruly and defiant,
her feet never stay at home;
12 now in the street, now in the squares,
at every corner she lurks.)
13 She took hold of him and kissed him
and with a brazen face she said:
14 "Today I fulfilled my vows,
and I have food from my fellowship offering at home.
15 So I came out to meet you;
I looked for you and have found you!
16 I have covered my bed
with colored linens from Egypt.
17 I have perfumed my bed
with myrrh, aloes and cinnamon.
18 Come, let's drink deeply of love till morning;
let's enjoy ourselves with love!
19 My husband is not at home;
he has gone on a long journey.
20 He took his purse filled with money
and will not be home till full moon."
21 With persuasive words she led him astray;
she seduced him with her smooth talk.
22 All at once he followed her
like an ox going to the slaughter,
like a deer[c] stepping into a noose[d]
23 till an arrow pierces his liver,
like a bird darting into a snare,
little knowing it will cost him his life.
24 Now then, my sons, listen to me;
pay attention to what I say.
25 Do not let your heart turn to her ways
or stray into her paths.
26 Many are the victims she has brought down;
her slain are a mighty throng.
27 Her house is a highway to the grave,
leading down to the chambers of death.

Audio:
 
I thought that Proverbs 6:25 was a bit interesting to think about:
"For a prostitute can be had for a loaf of bread,
but another man's wife preys on your very life."

Wouldn't sharing a prostitute with others still be against God's commandment not to commit adultery? While the prostitute wouldn't necessarily be married, you don't know that they aren't. I find that Solomon's laxer attitude towards sleeping with a prostitute is not very wise of him.
 
I thought that Proverbs 6:25 was a bit interesting to think about:
"For a prostitute can be had for a loaf of bread,
but another man's wife preys on your very life."

Wouldn't sharing a prostitute with others still be against God's commandment not to commit adultery? While the prostitute wouldn't necessarily be married, you don't know that they aren't. I find that Solomon's laxer attitude towards sleeping with a prostitute is not very wise of him.

It's not that Solomon is being lax, he's just highlighting how deadly it is to get entangled with an adulterous wife.
 
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Plenty of warnings against adultery in those chapters. This is the one I am not 100% understanding at the moment:

Proverbs 6:1-5

My son, if you have put up security for your neighbor,
if you have shaken hands in pledge for a stranger,
you have been trapped by what you said,
ensnared by the words of your mouth.
So do this, my son, to free yourself,
since you have fallen into your neighbor's hands:
Go—to the point of exhaustion—
and give your neighbor no rest!
Allow no sleep to your eyes,
no slumber to your eyelids.
Free yourself, like a gazelle from the hand of the hunter,
like a bird from the snare of the fowler.
 
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Plenty of warnings against adultery in those chapters. This is the one I am not 100% understanding at the moment:

Proverbs 6:1-5

My son, if you have put up security for your neighbor,
if you have shaken hands in pledge for a stranger,
you have been trapped by what you said,
ensnared by the words of your mouth.
So do this, my son, to free yourself,
since you have fallen into your neighbor's hands:
Go—to the point of exhaustion—
and give your neighbor no rest!
Allow no sleep to your eyes,
no slumber to your eyelids.
Free yourself, like a gazelle from the hand of the hunter,
like a bird from the snare of the fowler.

Don't get yourself indebted to shady characters. Just think of any mafia movie where the innocent shop owner makes a deal with a mobster and spends the whole film untangling himself from the bad deal.

Instead, do whatever you can to make sure you're not indebted to anyone. Financially but also spiritually.
 
Don't get yourself indebted to shady characters. Just think of any mafia movie where the innocent shop owner makes a deal with a mobster and spends the whole film untangling himself from the bad deal.

Instead, do whatever you can to make sure you're not indebted to anyone. Financially but also spiritually.
Thanks Don. But what do you mean about being indebted to anyone spiritually?
 
Thanks Don. But what do you mean about being indebted to anyone spiritually?

Don't hold grudges in your heart against someone. Don't repay good with evil. Keep a clean slate with everyone as best you can and be peaceable.

Jesus reiterates these same ideas in Matthew 5:23-25

So if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24leave your gift there before the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift.

25Reconcile quickly with your adversary, while you are still on the way to court. Otherwise, he may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison.
 
A few verses from each chapter I want to highlight

Proverbs 5 11-13

11 and at the end of your life you groan, when your flesh and body are consumed,
12 and you say, "How I hated discipline, and my heart despised reproof!
13 I did not listen to the voice of my teachers or incline my ear to my instructors.

I find this interesting as it was talking about strange women beforehand. It's really a look into toxic relationships that affect both men and women. I'm sure we all know at least one person who got involved with the wrong boyfriend/girlfriend and despite their friends/family telling them to get out of the relationship, they don't listen. Things get worse and they either have something horrible happen to get them out of the relationship, or they get stuck for life through marriage or a child. The realization always ends up the same way, with the person saying "I should have listened to what everyone told me" after wasting years of their lives. It's just interesting to see this dynamic here in Proverbs.

Proverbs 6 16-19

16 There are six things that the LORD hates, seven that are an abomination to him:
17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil,
19 a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers.

Some of these things tie into the commandments, but others (haughty eyes, heart devises wicked plans, running to evil, sows discord) are their own thing.

Proverbs 7 7-12

7 and I have seen among the simple, I have perceived among the youths, a young man lacking sense,
8 passing along the street near her corner, taking the road to her house
9 in the twilight, in the evening, at the time of night and darkness.
10 And behold, the woman meets him, dressed as a prostitute, wily of heart.
11 She is loud and wayward; her feet do not stay at home;
12 now in the street, now in the market, and at every corner she lies in wait.

Regrettably, when I was in my early 20s I hung around a lot of women like this. Bars and clubs are full of this type, the description of being loud is definitely true as the more forward girls make their intentions pretty well known. They behave the same way as described in these verses, and young men lacking sense (myself) would go after them because it was easy. When I still had facebook I had those girls as friends, and sure enough over the years they all ended up getting pregnant and living pretty awful lives from what I could tell from their posts. I am really fortunate I never got dragged into any of that.
 
Regrettably, when I was in my early 20s I hung around a lot of women like this. Bars and clubs are full of this type, the description of being loud is definitely true as the more forward girls make their intentions pretty well known. They behave the same way as described in these verses, and young men lacking sense (myself) would go after them because it was easy. When I still had facebook I had those girls as friends, and sure enough over the years they all ended up getting pregnant and living pretty awful lives from what I could tell from their posts. I am really fortunate I never got dragged into any of that.

It is sad how those women ended up. I find forward women a lot easier to communicate with in general, and it is a shame that they can't settle down with someone who is good for them.
 
This week's reading is Proverbs 8-9:


Wisdom's Call
8
Does not wisdom call out?
Does not understanding raise her voice?
2 At the highest point along the way,
where the paths meet, she takes her stand;
3 beside the gate leading into the city,
at the entrance, she cries aloud:
4 "To you, O people, I call out;
I raise my voice to all mankind.
5 You who are simple, gain prudence;
you who are foolish, set your hearts on it.[a]
6 Listen, for I have trustworthy things to say;
I open my lips to speak what is right.
7 My mouth speaks what is true,
for my lips detest wickedness.
8 All the words of my mouth are just;
none of them is crooked or perverse.
9 To the discerning all of them are right;
they are upright to those who have found knowledge.
10 Choose my instruction instead of silver,
knowledge rather than choice gold,
11 for wisdom is more precious than rubies,
and nothing you desire can compare with her.
12 "I, wisdom, dwell together with prudence;
I possess knowledge and discretion.
13 To fear the Lord is to hate evil;
I hate pride and arrogance,
evil behavior and perverse speech.
14 Counsel and sound judgment are mine;
I have insight, I have power.
15 By me kings reign
and rulers issue decrees that are just;
16 by me princes govern,
and nobles—all who rule on earth.[b]
17 I love those who love me,
and those who seek me find me.
18 With me are riches and honor,
enduring wealth and prosperity.
19 My fruit is better than fine gold;
what I yield surpasses choice silver.
20 I walk in the way of righteousness,
along the paths of justice,
21 bestowing a rich inheritance on those who love me
and making their treasuries full.
22 "The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works,[c][d]
before his deeds of old;
23 I was formed long ages ago,
at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
24 When there were no watery depths, I was given birth,
when there were no springs overflowing with water;
25 before the mountains were settled in place,
before the hills, I was given birth,
26 before he made the world or its fields
or any of the dust of the earth.
27 I was there when he set the heavens in place,
when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
28 when he established the clouds above
and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
29 when he gave the sea its boundary
so the waters would not overstep his command,
and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
30 Then I was constantly[e] at his side.
I was filled with delight day after day,
rejoicing always in his presence,
31 rejoicing in his whole world
and delighting in mankind.
32 "Now then, my children, listen to me;
blessed are those who keep my ways.
33 Listen to my instruction and be wise;
do not disregard it.
34 Blessed are those who listen to me,
watching daily at my doors,
waiting at my doorway.
35 For those who find me find life
and receive favor from the Lord.
36 But those who fail to find me harm themselves;
all who hate me love death."

Invitations of Wisdom and Folly
9
Wisdom has built her house;
she has set up[f] its seven pillars.
2 She has prepared her meat and mixed her wine;
she has also set her table.
3 She has sent out her servants, and she calls
from the highest point of the city,
4 "Let all who are simple come to my house!"
To those who have no sense she says,
5 "Come, eat my food
and drink the wine I have mixed.
6 Leave your simple ways and you will live;
walk in the way of insight."
7 Whoever corrects a mocker invites insults;
whoever rebukes the wicked incurs abuse.
8 Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you;
rebuke the wise and they will love you.
9 Instruct the wise and they will be wiser still;
teach the righteous and they will add to their learning.
10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom,
and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
11 For through wisdom[g] your days will be many,
and years will be added to your life.
12 If you are wise, your wisdom will reward you;
if you are a mocker, you alone will suffer.
13 Folly is an unruly woman;
she is simple and knows nothing.
14 She sits at the door of her house,
on a seat at the highest point of the city,
15 calling out to those who pass by,
who go straight on their way,
16 "Let all who are simple come to my house!"
To those who have no sense she says,
17 "Stolen water is sweet;
food eaten in secret is delicious!"
18 But little do they know that the dead are there,
that her guests are deep in the realm of the dead.

 
Proverbs 9:7-18

7 Whoever corrects a mocker invites insults;
whoever rebukes the wicked incurs abuse.
8 Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you;
rebuke the wise and they will love you.
9 Instruct the wise and they will be wiser still;
teach the righteous and they will add to their learning.
10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom,
and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
11 For through wisdom your days will be many,
and years will be added to your life.
12 If you are wise, your wisdom will reward you;
if you are a mocker, you alone will suffer.
13 Folly is an unruly woman;
she is simple and knows nothing.
14 She sits at the door of her house,
on a seat at the highest point of the city,
15 calling out to those who pass by,
who go straight on their way,
16 "Let all who are simple come to my house!"
To those who have no sense she says,
17 "Stolen water is sweet;
food eaten in secret is delicious!"
18 But little do they know that the dead are there,
that her guests are deep in the realm of the dead.
 
One thing I like about this week's reading is that wisdom was there at the very beginning before God created the world. Everything He created was done so with wisdom/intelligence at mind. So if wisdom was the foundation for the creation of the world, it should be the foundation of our individual lives, which is alluded to multiple times in these chapters.

And another detail, I like that wisdom and intelligence are referred to as a female. You often hear from non believers (those who have never actually read the Bible) that the Bible is sexist or whatever, but in these chapters wisdom is referred to as a woman and it's an integral part of a happy/successful life.
 
That last verse in chapter nine is chilling. What does it mean exactly? That those who keep foolish company are basically doomed?

I think that is the gist of it. Keeping company with foolish/dishonest people leads to you slowly but surely copying some of their bad ways. This is why I feel sorry for children with bad parents. Once your main role models have taught you a lifetime of bad habits, it will be very hard/impossible to turn yourself around. It's sort of like a soft form of predestination in a way.
 
This week's reading is Proverbs 10-11:


Proverbs of Solomon

10
The proverbs of Solomon:
A wise son brings joy to his father,
but a foolish son brings grief to his mother.
2 Ill-gotten treasures have no lasting value,
but righteousness delivers from death.
3 The Lord does not let the righteous go hungry,
but he thwarts the craving of the wicked.
4 Lazy hands make for poverty,
but diligent hands bring wealth.
5 He who gathers crops in summer is a prudent son,
but he who sleeps during harvest is a disgraceful son.
6 Blessings crown the head of the righteous,
but violence overwhelms the mouth of the wicked.[a]
7 The name of the righteous is used in blessings,[b]
but the name of the wicked will rot.
8 The wise in heart accept commands,
but a chattering fool comes to ruin.
9 Whoever walks in integrity walks securely,
but whoever takes crooked paths will be found out.
10 Whoever winks maliciously causes grief,
and a chattering fool comes to ruin.
11 The mouth of the righteous is a fountain of life,
but the mouth of the wicked conceals violence.
12 Hatred stirs up conflict,
but love covers over all wrongs.
13 Wisdom is found on the lips of the discerning,
but a rod is for the back of one who has no sense.
14 The wise store up knowledge,
but the mouth of a fool invites ruin.
15 The wealth of the rich is their fortified city,
but poverty is the ruin of the poor.
16 The wages of the righteous is life,
but the earnings of the wicked are sin and death.
17 Whoever heeds discipline shows the way to life,
but whoever ignores correction leads others astray.
18 Whoever conceals hatred with lying lips
and spreads slander is a fool.
19 Sin is not ended by multiplying words,
but the prudent hold their tongues.
20 The tongue of the righteous is choice silver,
but the heart of the wicked is of little value.
21 The lips of the righteous nourish many,
but fools die for lack of sense.
22 The blessing of the Lord brings wealth,
without painful toil for it.
23 A fool finds pleasure in wicked schemes,
but a person of understanding delights in wisdom.
24 What the wicked dread will overtake them;
what the righteous desire will be granted.
25 When the storm has swept by, the wicked are gone,
but the righteous stand firm forever.
26 As vinegar to the teeth and smoke to the eyes,
so are sluggards to those who send them.
27 The fear of the Lord adds length to life,
but the years of the wicked are cut short.
28 The prospect of the righteous is joy,
but the hopes of the wicked come to nothing.
29 The way of the Lord is a refuge for the blameless,
but it is the ruin of those who do evil.
30 The righteous will never be uprooted,
but the wicked will not remain in the land.
31 From the mouth of the righteous comes the fruit of wisdom,
but a perverse tongue will be silenced.
32 The lips of the righteous know what finds favor,
but the mouth of the wicked only what is perverse.

11 The Lord detests dishonest scales,
but accurate weights find favor with him.
2 When pride comes, then comes disgrace,
but with humility comes wisdom.
3 The integrity of the upright guides them,
but the unfaithful are destroyed by their duplicity.
4 Wealth is worthless in the day of wrath,
but righteousness delivers from death.
5 The righteousness of the blameless makes their paths straight,
but the wicked are brought down by their own wickedness.
6 The righteousness of the upright delivers them,
but the unfaithful are trapped by evil desires.
7 Hopes placed in mortals die with them;
all the promise of[c] their power comes to nothing.
8 The righteous person is rescued from trouble,
and it falls on the wicked instead.
9 With their mouths the godless destroy their neighbors,
but through knowledge the righteous escape.
10 When the righteous prosper, the city rejoices;
when the wicked perish, there are shouts of joy.
11 Through the blessing of the upright a city is exalted,
but by the mouth of the wicked it is destroyed.
12 Whoever derides their neighbor has no sense,
but the one who has understanding holds their tongue.
13 A gossip betrays a confidence,
but a trustworthy person keeps a secret.
14 For lack of guidance a nation falls,
but victory is won through many advisers.
15 Whoever puts up security for a stranger will surely suffer,
but whoever refuses to shake hands in pledge is safe.
16 A kindhearted woman gains honor,
but ruthless men gain only wealth.
17 Those who are kind benefit themselves,
but the cruel bring ruin on themselves.
18 A wicked person earns deceptive wages,
but the one who sows righteousness reaps a sure reward.
19 Truly the righteous attain life,
but whoever pursues evil finds death.
20 The Lord detests those whose hearts are perverse,
but he delights in those whose ways are blameless.
21 Be sure of this: The wicked will not go unpunished,
but those who are righteous will go free.
22 Like a gold ring in a pig's snout
is a beautiful woman who shows no discretion.
23 The desire of the righteous ends only in good,
but the hope of the wicked only in wrath.
24 One person gives freely, yet gains even more;
another withholds unduly, but comes to poverty.
25 A generous person will prosper;
whoever refreshes others will be refreshed.
26 People curse the one who hoards grain,
but they pray God's blessing on the one who is willing to sell.
27 Whoever seeks good finds favor,
but evil comes to one who searches for it.
28 Those who trust in their riches will fall,
but the righteous will thrive like a green leaf.
29 Whoever brings ruin on their family will inherit only wind,
and the fool will be servant to the wise.
30 The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life,
and the one who is wise saves lives.
31 If the righteous receive their due on earth,
how much more the ungodly and the sinner!

 
Proverbs 10:4 touches upon one of the problems of the modern world:

"Lazy hands make for poverty,
but diligent hands bring wealth."

While working hard should bring wealth, modern economies reward capital far more than labour these days. Excess capital has led to laxer/more corrupt hiring standards that do not reward effort and hard work as much as they should.
 
I don't really get Proverbs 11:31 :

"If the righteous receive their due on earth,
how much more the ungodly and the sinner!"

I guess due is supposed to mean punishment, but even then just because good righteous people are punished doesn't necessarily mean that others are punished as well. I suppose if a society is so bad that it punishes the righteous, then that society would be pretty unpleasant to live in. But I don't know how living in the same bad society would be worse for the sinners and ungodly though.
 
I don't really get Proverbs 11:31 :

"If the righteous receive their due on earth,
how much more the ungodly and the sinner!"

I guess due is supposed to mean punishment, but even then just because good righteous people are punished doesn't necessarily mean that others are punished as well. I suppose if a society is so bad that it punishes the righteous, then that society would be pretty unpleasant to live in. But I don't know how living in the same bad society would be worse for the sinners and ungodly though.

I think it's saying that if God rewards the righteous for their deeds, surely he sees the deeds of the wicked.

It's a reassurance to the reader that God is not blind to our behavior and He deals out reward and punishment as He thinks is best. In this case the phrase "their due" isn't strictly negative but more generalized.
 
Is there a standard Bible you guys are reading from?
I'm reading St. Augustine's Confessions and using KJV alongside for reference. Don't know if that's the best "daily driver" translation.
 
I've used NKJV since I was a teenager. I also use ESV and EHV.

Glad you're reading Confessions, it's really good.

Awesome thank you! I have a nice Bible app I can switch around pretty easy.
Still early doors but I really like it. I think when you hear "395 AD" it's easy to think of that as not very far removed biblical times as its so far from now, but hearing people at the time say St. Augustine "revived the ancient tradition" makes it very relatable to today with what I feel is like a big Christian and general spiritual revival happening right now.
Any thoughts as I go I'll put in Christianity OT but I'd like to try and read with you guys in here as well:)
 
Is there a standard Bible you guys are reading from?
I'm reading St. Augustine's Confessions and using KJV alongside for reference. Don't know if that's the best "daily driver" translation.

KJV is a very good literary translation well suited for devotional reading. For study, the RSV is quite good.

I personally use the Douay Rheims which is comparable to KJV, although some modern readers consider its literary tone to be a barrier. I think translation matters a lot because the word choices the early Church Fathers used to understand the import of the Old Testament and particularly the doctrines of the letters of the Apostles have been displaced by the 19th and 20th century biblical movements, and their connections with ecumenism. Most of the translations we have today are the product of this broader academic movement.

From what I understand, the Knox Bible is the English best of all worlds but I haven't delved too much into it myself.
 
Is there a standard Bible you guys are reading from?
I'm reading St. Augustine's Confessions and using KJV alongside for reference. Don't know if that's the best "daily driver" translation.

The Bible Gateway site that we use for the Bible readings is using NIV as default. There are so many different versions available but I just stick to the default for simplicity.
 
I use KJV so I have an excuse for not understanding what is being said
I had to hold off on KJV as I wasn't adequately learning the full lesson. Even when reading the chapters carefully and attentively it can be challenging as a newcomer. As of right now I like referring to these for the Bible app (I use the YouVersion Holy Bible app)

KJV
NKJV
NIV
NASB2020
NRSV

And I'm going to check into the other versions listed above too. It's difficult to know which one has the most accurate translations since I don't know Hebrew or Greek or anything, so sometimes I'll read a handful of different versions depending on the verse
 
Proverbs 11:1

The Lord detests dishonest scales,
but accurate weights find favor with him

Is this verse saying that the Lord detests anything that is not accurate or truthful? Like for example, when I read that verse I think about several things that might greatly upset the Lord according to that verse. Some examples like votes in America being tampered with, or maybe somebody charging an arm and a leg for a service and then swindling a customer further, a court officer sentencing men unjustly either too much time or too little time imprisonment for the crime(s), or lying to others and ourselves about some matter instead of telling the truth with accuracy so others can see and know and think accordingly to the truth.
 
I had to hold off on KJV as I wasn't adequately learning the full lesson. Even when reading the chapters carefully and attentively it can be challenging as a newcomer. As of right now I like referring to these for the Bible app (I use the YouVersion Holy Bible app)

KJV
NKJV
NIV
NASB2020
NRSV

And I'm going to check into the other versions listed above too. It's difficult to know which one has the most accurate translations since I don't know Hebrew or Greek or anything, so sometimes I'll read a handful of different versions depending on the verse

Men of God worked hard to make all our different translations. We still have access to the Septuagint and all the scholarship surrounding those translations. It's not like we have to take their word for it
 
Proverbs 11:1

The Lord detests dishonest scales,
but accurate weights find favor with him

Is this verse saying that the Lord detests anything that is not accurate or truthful? Like for example, when I read that verse I think about several things that might greatly upset the Lord according to that verse. Some examples like votes in America being tampered with, or maybe somebody charging an arm and a leg for a service and then swindling a customer further, a court officer sentencing men unjustly either too much time or too little time imprisonment for the crime(s), or lying to others and ourselves about some matter instead of telling the truth with accuracy so others can see and know and think accordingly to the truth.

Your interpretation seems pretty accurate. God likes people speaking the truth and acting accordingly. People may not always like the truth, but that is ultimately what God supports.
 
Proverbs 11:1

The Lord detests dishonest scales,
but accurate weights find favor with him

Is this verse saying that the Lord detests anything that is not accurate or truthful? Like for example, when I read that verse I think about several things that might greatly upset the Lord according to that verse. Some examples like votes in America being tampered with, or maybe somebody charging an arm and a leg for a service and then swindling a customer further, a court officer sentencing men unjustly either too much time or too little time imprisonment for the crime(s), or lying to others and ourselves about some matter instead of telling the truth with accuracy so others can see and know and think accordingly to the truth.

I think the "scales" really sends the message of man leveraging something "objective" for deception.
Another good modern analogy in my mind would be "tobacco science", when wicked people can use tools to make their own truth, but worse, obscure Truth.

I guess to get deeper: with human minds we can always rationalize, and in that sense we can take measure ourselves in ways that are deceptive. We can "tip the scales" to justify our wicked behavior. I've definitely been guilty of that!
 
Agree with @Franky Family, I feel this is where Proverbs really starts to take off with great life lessons. Even when I didn't believe in God, when I read through Proverbs, these sections stood out to me. There's too many to quote from this chapter, but here's a few I like.

7 The memory of the righteous is blessed, But the name of the wicked will rot.
18 He who conceals hatred has lying lips, And he who spreads slander is a fool.
19 When there are many words, transgression is unavoidable *, But he who restrains his lips is wise.
Really like these 2 from chapter 10. I really hate gossip and schoolgirl drama, there's a lot of it in my line of work sadly. I just ignore it and don't take part. It's so pathetic in my opinion.

11 By the blessing of the upright a city is exalted, But by the mouth of the wicked it is torn down.
14 Where there is no guidance the people fall, But in abundance of counselors there is victory.
Once again, kind of a reflection on modern times. The countries/cities that lack the presence of God seem to be on a downward spiral. But we also read about this repeatedly in the old testament; cities/civilizations turning away from God and then sure enough, the downfall follows.
 
I think the "scales" really sends the message of man leveraging something "objective" for deception.
Another good modern analogy in my mind would be "tobacco science", when wicked people can use tools to make their own truth, but worse, obscure Truth.

I guess to get deeper: with human minds we can always rationalize, and in that sense we can take measure ourselves in ways that are deceptive. We can "tip the scales" to justify our wicked behavior. I've definitely been guilty of that!
I'm still trying to figure out exactly what is intended by that verse and it'll probably take me some time to fully understand what the Lord desires we learn from it. Spoke with a knowledgeable scholar the other day and he told me that back in ancient times, merchants used to use scales when trading. That makes sense. So I kind of think of that verse telling us that the Lord detests others being dishonest to one another and Solomon uses trading as an example as people used to use scales to determine how much something is worth or to be traded for.

Another example I can think of goes back to my old friend. He and his brothers used to work in restaurants and fast food. When at the register, I was surprised to know that one day he told me about how he charges most people an extra dollar for tip against their will when they would pay for their meal(s) for that visit. It probably netted him a good $300-500 extra each paycheck but that was dishonest money stolen from good patrons just trying to enjoy a meal. It's very sad stuff, and I didn't realize how much harm stealing could cause in the grand scheme of things until I was a bit older. I understand thanks to God how bad stealing is and how wrong it is. Even just stealing a dollar's worth here and there once or twice a year; it completely disrupts a balance that God has set into place for everyone. Now imagine stealing much, it can totally disrupt and harm many. It is so bad dude. I had no idea until the Lord started to show me how it is.
 
I'm still trying to figure out exactly what is intended by that verse and it'll probably take me some time to fully understand what the Lord desires we learn from it. Spoke with a knowledgeable scholar the other day and he told me that back in ancient times, merchants used to use scales when trading. That makes sense. So I kind of think of that verse telling us that the Lord detests others being dishonest to one another and Solomon uses trading as an example as people used to use scales to determine how much something is worth or to be traded for.

Another example I can think of goes back to my old friend. He and his brothers used to work in restaurants and fast food. When at the register, I was surprised to know that one day he told me about how he charges most people an extra dollar for tip against their will when they would pay for their meal(s) for that visit. It probably netted him a good $300-500 extra each paycheck but that was dishonest money stolen from good patrons just trying to enjoy a meal. It's very sad stuff, and I didn't realize how much harm stealing could cause in the grand scheme of things until I was a bit older. I understand thanks to God how bad stealing is and how wrong it is. Even just stealing a dollar's worth here and there once or twice a year; it completely disrupts a balance that God has set into place for everyone. Now imagine stealing much, it can totally disrupt and harm many. It is so bad dude. I had no idea until the Lord started to show me how it is.

Came across this too:

Leviticus 19:35-36

35 "'Do not use dishonest standards when measuring length, weight or quantity. 36 Use honest scales and honest weights, an honest ephah and an honest hin. I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt.