[Franky Family]

Ecclesiastes 4:4-6

And I saw that all toil and all achievement spring from one person's envy of another. This too is meaningless, a chasing after the wind. Fools fold their hands and ruin themselves. Better one handful with tranquility than two handfuls with toil and chasing after the wind.

Spoiler: Discussion

What did King Solomon mean by fools fold their hands and ruin themselves, in that context? Does he mean excessive work in that particular verse? Excessive working or toiling away in the field or one's profession or job?

 

[O-N-E]

Ecclesiastes 4:4-6

And I saw that all toil and all achievement spring from one person's envy of another. This too is meaningless, a chasing after the wind. Fools fold their hands and ruin themselves. Better one handful with tranquility than two handfuls with toil and chasing after the wind.

Spoiler: Discussion

What did King Solomon mean by fools fold their hands and ruin themselves, in that context? Does he mean excessive work in that particular verse? Excessive working or toiling away in the field or one's profession or job?

It's about being lazy. Solomon is promoting the golden middle. You should work, but only to provide what is necessary for a tranquil existence rather than greater and greater riches.

There have been multiple studies that suggest there is a limit to how strongly money can affect happiness. The most prominent study being one from 2010 that suggested a household income of $75,000 was the point at which the money to happiness relationship plateaued.

That's roughly $110, 000 USD today, although you'd probably have to make some changes to account for the difference in cost of living (and your personal number would obviously be different).

 

[Mickmrly]

I read a story in a newspaper where a lady won the lottery. It ruined her life and just after she finished building her dream home she died before ever living in it. If it had that effect on me I'd give it all to charity. Sometimes God doesn't allow people to enjoy their wealth.

That is an unfortunate tale. Extreme amounts of wealth can change people. It is usually better to have enough money to buy a good house with some left over. Once you have a nice house, the extra money doesn't really add that much more.

 

[Rock And Roll]

The thing that stands out for me in modern context in chapter 5 is making a vow to God. The phrase "I swear to God" is so watered down and used without thought anymore, but I don't think it was that long ago when people would think twice before uttering that phrase. If you make a promise to God, you have to fulfill it. If you aren't ready to take the step and make a vow to Him, it's better to keep quiet.

The last handful of verses in chapter 6 are a bit confusing and hard to figure out. Any insight/interpretations?

 

[Mickmrly]

The thing that stands out for me in modern context in chapter 5 is making a vow to God. The phrase "I swear to God" is so watered down and used without thought anymore, but I don't think it was that long ago when people would think twice before uttering that phrase. If you make a promise to God, you have to fulfill it. If you aren't ready to take the step and make a vow to Him, it's better to keep quiet.

The last handful of verses in chapter 6 are a bit confusing and hard to figure out. Any insight/interpretations?

I think the last verses of Chapter 6 are continuing the theme of Solomon saying that everything is meaningless. His words indicate he is not content, despite his wealth and power. Despite his fortunate position, he worries about things he cannot change such as what happens after his life on earth is finished. Even the most powerful people in the world have limits, and when they are presented with things they cannot control they can become very distraught. Some things just need to be left in God's hands, and our minds should instead focus on what we can control instead.

 

[Mickmrly]

This week's reading is Ecclesiastes 7-8:

Bible Gateway passage: Ecclesiastes 7-8 - New International Version

Wisdom - A good name is better than fine perfume, and the day of death better than the day of birth. It is better to go to a house of mourning than to go to a house of feasting, for death is the destiny of everyone; the living should take this to heart. Frustration is better than laughter...

www.biblegateway.com

Spoiler: Verses

Wisdom

7 A good name is better than fine perfume,
and the day of death better than the day of birth.
2 It is better to go to a house of mourning
than to go to a house of feasting,
for death is the destiny of everyone;
the living should take this to heart.
3 Frustration is better than laughter,
because a sad face is good for the heart.
4 The heart of the wise is in the house of mourning,
but the heart of fools is in the house of pleasure.
5 It is better to heed the rebuke of a wise person
than to listen to the song of fools.
6 Like the crackling of thorns under the pot,
so is the laughter of fools.
This too is meaningless.
7 Extortion turns a wise person into a fool,
and a bribe corrupts the heart.
8 The end of a matter is better than its beginning,
and patience is better than pride.
9 Do not be quickly provoked in your spirit,
for anger resides in the lap of fools.
10 Do not say, "Why were the old days better than these?"
For it is not wise to ask such questions.
11 Wisdom, like an inheritance, is a good thing
and benefits those who see the sun.
12 Wisdom is a shelter
as money is a shelter,
but the advantage of knowledge is this:
Wisdom preserves those who have it.
13 Consider what God has done:
Who can straighten
what he has made crooked?
14 When times are good, be happy;
but when times are bad, consider this:
God has made the one
as well as the other.
Therefore, no one can discover
anything about their future.
15 In this meaningless life of mine I have seen both of these:
the righteous perishing in their righteousness,
and the wicked living long in their wickedness.
16 Do not be overrighteous,
neither be overwise—
why destroy yourself?
17 Do not be overwicked,
and do not be a fool—
why die before your time?
18 It is good to grasp the one
and not let go of the other.
Whoever fears God will avoid all extremes.[a]
19 Wisdom makes one wise person more powerful
than ten rulers in a city.
20 Indeed, there is no one on earth who is righteous,
no one who does what is right and never sins.
21 Do not pay attention to every word people say,
or you may hear your servant cursing you—
22 for you know in your heart
that many times you yourself have cursed others.
23 All this I tested by wisdom and I said,
"I am determined to be wise"—
but this was beyond me.
24 Whatever exists is far off and most profound—
who can discover it?
25 So I turned my mind to understand,
to investigate and to search out wisdom and the scheme of things
and to understand the stupidity of wickedness
and the madness of folly.
26 I find more bitter than death
the woman who is a snare,
whose heart is a trap
and whose hands are chains.
The man who pleases God will escape her,
but the sinner she will ensnare.
27 "Look," says the Teacher,[b] "this is what I have discovered:
"Adding one thing to another to discover the scheme of things—
28 while I was still searching
but not finding—
I found one upright man among a thousand,
but not one upright woman among them all.
29 This only have I found:
God created mankind upright,
but they have gone in search of many schemes."

8 Who is like the wise?
Who knows the explanation of things?
A person's wisdom brightens their face
and changes its hard appearance.

Obey the King

2 Obey the king's command, I say, because you took an oath before God. 3 Do not be in a hurry to leave the king's presence. Do not stand up for a bad cause, for he will do whatever he pleases. 4 Since a king's word is supreme, who can say to him, "What are you doing?"
5 Whoever obeys his command will come to no harm,
and the wise heart will know the proper time and procedure.
6 For there is a proper time and procedure for every matter,
though a person may be weighed down by misery.
7 Since no one knows the future,
who can tell someone else what is to come?
8 As no one has power over the wind to contain it,
so[c] no one has power over the time of their death.
As no one is discharged in time of war,
so wickedness will not release those who practice it.
9 All this I saw, as I applied my mind to everything done under the sun. There is a time when a man lords it over others to his own[d] hurt. 10 Then too, I saw the wicked buried—those who used to come and go from the holy place and receive praise[e] in the city where they did this. This too is meaningless.
11 When the sentence for a crime is not quickly carried out, people's hearts are filled with schemes to do wrong. 12 Although a wicked person who commits a hundred crimes may live a long time, I know that it will go better with those who fear God, who are reverent before him. 13 Yet because the wicked do not fear God, it will not go well with them, and their days will not lengthen like a shadow.
14 There is something else meaningless that occurs on earth: the righteous who get what the wicked deserve, and the wicked who get what the righteous deserve.This too, I say, is meaningless. 15 So I commend the enjoyment of life, because there is nothing better for a person under the sun than to eat and drink and be glad.Then joy will accompany them in their toil all the days of the life God has given them under the sun.
16 When I applied my mind to know wisdom and to observe the labor that is done on earth—people getting no sleep day or night— 17 then I saw all that God has done.No one can comprehend what goes on under the sun. Despite all their efforts to search it out, no one can discover its meaning. Even if the wise claim they know, they cannot really comprehend it.

Audio:

BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 150 versions and 50 languages.: Audio

www.biblegateway.com

 

[MrPickles]

21 Do not pay attention to every word people say,
or you may hear your servant cursing you—
22 for you know in your heart
that many times you yourself have cursed others.

This scripture parallels what Jesus said about judging others. I find when I judge others I find myself a short while later doing the same thing myself and having to repent of it.

 

[DonDonDonPata]

This one is difficult for me to follow:

10 Do not say, "Why were the old days better than these?"
For it is not wise to ask such questions.

I try to remember all the excellent things we have in the modern age. It's too easy to look back and wish certain things were like the old days, but it ultimately leads nowhere. Time marches forward and God wants us to match with it.

 

[Franky Family]

The thing that stands out for me in modern context in chapter 5 is making a vow to God. The phrase "I swear to God" is so watered down and used without thought anymore, but I don't think it was that long ago when people would think twice before uttering that phrase. If you make a promise to God, you have to fulfill it. If you aren't ready to take the step and make a vow to Him, it's better to keep quiet.

The last handful of verses in chapter 6 are a bit confusing and hard to figure out. Any insight/interpretations?

Ecclesiastes 6:1-12 NKJV

[1] There is an evil which I have seen under the sun, and it is common among men: [2] A man to whom God has given riches and wealth and honor, so that he lacks nothing for himself of all he desires; yet God does not give him power to eat of it, but a foreigner consumes it. This is vanity, and it is an evil affliction. [3] If a man begets a hundred children and lives many years, so that the days of his years are many, but his soul is not satisfied with goodness, or indeed he has no burial, I say that a stillborn child is better than he— [4] for it comes in vanity and departs in darkness, and its name is covered with darkness. [5] Though it has not seen the sun or known anything, this has more rest than that man, [6] even if he lives a thousand years twice—but has not seen goodness. Do not all go to one place? [7] All the labor of man is for his mouth, And yet the soul is not satisfied. [8] For what more has the wise man than the fool? What does the poor man have, Who knows how to walk before the living? [9] Better is the sight of the eyes than the wandering of desire. This also is vanity and grasping for the wind. [10] Whatever one is, he has been named already, For it is known that he is man; And he cannot contend with Him who is mightier than he. [11] Since there are many things that increase vanity, How is man the better? [12] For who knows what is good for man in life, all the days of his vain life which he passes like a shadow? Who can tell a man what will happen after him under the sun?

 

[Franky Family]

Posted the entire chapter, since it's short. I'll ponder it for a while and then I'll share my insights later tonight

 

[Mickmrly]

This one is difficult for me to follow:

10 Do not say, "Why were the old days better than these?"
For it is not wise to ask such questions.

I try to remember all the excellent things we have in the modern age. It's too easy to look back and wish certain things were like the old days, but it ultimately leads nowhere. Time marches forward and God wants us to match with it.

The better parts of the present are my extended family growing larger through marriage and births, but I think community connections in general were better in the older days compared to now. While not everything about the old days was good, I still look back most of the time for guidance.

I do wonder why God allows for some times to be less positive than others, it can be disheartening when things are lost that were commonplace in prior times.

I must admit, I am a bit disappointed in the modern age and will feel a lot better when I hopefully get to heaven. I am more stubborn with clinging to the past than you, but perhaps I'll mellow when I get older.

 

[Franky Family]

It's probably a bit off, but these are my takes. Sometimes I'll read a chapter and think one thing. Then re-read it and see it differently. Then I'll listen to someone else's take and their spin on it makes a lot more sense. And sometimes I'll read a passage many years later and finally understand it in full, how it applies to life, thanks to someone who knows the lesson and explains it almost perfectly. Or if not that, it's because I have enough life experiences to know and put the puzzle piece in the right spot so to say; so that it locks into place securely

Spoiler: Ecclesiastes 6:7-12

Ecclesiastes 6:7-9 kind of takes me to this conclusion when I think about it... Solomon is implying that a man works and toils to survive; for food and drink and whatever else will uphold a man in this life but primarily I believe he is referring to sustenance. And then he goes on to indicate that the soul yearns for different kind of food, it seems. He then begins to question what advantage the wise man has over the fool, and the answer is nothing. In this life, we are but a fleeting mist. The wise man and the foolish man will both meet the same fate in the end, and die one day. It doesn't matter who has more. Then he looks to the poor man who seems to have it more figured out than those with much more, those who have toiled away for their keep. Better is to go straight and live a life with less than to be distracted by the many pleasures of life; as those same pleasures will have you going in circles in the same exact spot while the one with less is advancing forward (since there is nothing there for him to hold him back). Essentially, I think King Solomon is saying that abundance of any kind is akin to a snare. More wisdom than one. More money than one. More possessions and passions, etc. They all can lead to wandering off the path, and then you're feeling lost, because you are lost. I believe Jesus definitely has our best interests at heart when he tells us to sell everything and to give it to the poor. Things are nice, but it is unbelievably easy to allow the pleasures of this world to grab hold of your attention and strip you away from what is truly important for hours, days, weeks, months, years, decades even... Some might even waste their entire life and never see the truth, unfortunately. Another reason why Jesus wants the Gospel spread. God doesn't want people to live their lives blindly, walking in darkness all the days of our lives. That's why God sent His only begotten Son to die on the cross for us.

Ecclesiastes 6:10-12 a call for humbleness and for reality to sink in; that man will never measure up to God. No man can contend with God. He is the one true Almighty God and were are men. There is no comparison, yet still there are some who are oblivious to this fact or even reject it due to either lack of understanding or pride. I think Solomon is also pointing out that there are so many ways to live yet hardly any of them (the paths that we take) are good or even worthy of being taken, or walked, in the first place. And I think he is saying that no man can even say what is truly good to do in one's life. Who can say what is right or good? No man can. Only God could. And who knows what will happen afterwards, when a man's life is over?

My take is that King Solomon is very wise of course, but I do not necessarily take his word as seriously as God's. What is a man's wisdom compared to God's wisdom? It's very little in comparison. But still of use in my opinion. King Solomon is repetitive and negative in the Book of Ecclesiastes, but he's making a lot of good points that most would never even think of. I prefer the Book of Proverbs, but Ecclesiastes is good too

 

[Mickmrly]

This week's reading is Ecclesiastes 9-10:

Bible Gateway passage: Ecclesiastes 9-10 - New International Version

A Common Destiny for All - So I reflected on all this and concluded that the righteous and the wise and what they do are in God’s hands, but no one knows whether love or hate awaits them. All share a common destiny—the righteous and the wicked, the good and the bad, the clean and the unclean...

www.biblegateway.com

Spoiler: Verses

A Common Destiny for All

9 So I reflected on all this and concluded that the righteous and the wise and what they do are in God's hands, but no one knows whether love or hate awaits them.2 All share a common destiny—the righteous and the wicked, the good and the bad,[a] the clean and the unclean, those who offer sacrifices and those who do not.
As it is with the good,
so with the sinful;
as it is with those who take oaths,
so with those who are afraid to take them.
3 This is the evil in everything that happens under the sun: The same destiny overtakes all. The hearts of people, moreover, are full of evil and there is madness in their hearts while they live, and afterward they join the dead. 4 Anyone who is among the living has hope[b]—even a live dog is better off than a dead lion!
5 For the living know that they will die,
but the dead know nothing;
they have no further reward,
and even their name is forgotten.
6 Their love, their hate
and their jealousy have long since vanished;
never again will they have a part
in anything that happens under the sun.
7 Go, eat your food with gladness, and drink your wine with a joyful heart, for God has already approved what you do. 8 Always be clothed in white, and always anoint your head with oil. 9 Enjoy life with your wife, whom you love, all the days of this meaningless life that God has given you under the sun—all your meaningless days. For this is your lot in life and in your toilsome labor under the sun. 10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.
11 I have seen something else under the sun:
The race is not to the swift
or the battle to the strong,
nor does food come to the wise
or wealth to the brilliant
or favor to the learned;
but time and chance happen to them all.
12 Moreover, no one knows when their hour will come:
As fish are caught in a cruel net,
or birds are taken in a snare,
so people are trapped by evil times
that fall unexpectedly upon them.

Wisdom Better Than Folly
13 I also saw under the sun this example of wisdom that greatly impressed me: 14 There was once a small city with only a few people in it. And a powerful king came against it, surrounded it and built huge siege works against it. 15 Now there lived in that city a man poor but wise, and he saved the city by his wisdom. But nobody remembered that poor man. 16 So I said, "Wisdom is better than strength." But the poor man's wisdom is despised, and his words are no longer heeded.
17 The quiet words of the wise are more to be heeded
than the shouts of a ruler of fools.
18 Wisdom is better than weapons of war,
but one sinner destroys much good.

10 As dead flies give perfume a bad smell,
so a little folly outweighs wisdom and honor.
2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right,
but the heart of the fool to the left.
3 Even as fools walk along the road,
they lack sense
and show everyone how stupid they are.
4 If a ruler's anger rises against you,
do not leave your post;
calmness can lay great offenses to rest.
5 There is an evil I have seen under the sun,
the sort of error that arises from a ruler:
6 Fools are put in many high positions,
while the rich occupy the low ones.
7 I have seen slaves on horseback,
while princes go on foot like slaves.
8 Whoever digs a pit may fall into it;
whoever breaks through a wall may be bitten by a snake.
9 Whoever quarries stones may be injured by them;
whoever splits logs may be endangered by them.
10 If the ax is dull
and its edge unsharpened,
more strength is needed,
but skill will bring success.
11 If a snake bites before it is charmed,
the charmer receives no fee.
12 Words from the mouth of the wise are gracious,
but fools are consumed by their own lips.
13 At the beginning their words are folly;
at the end they are wicked madness—
14 and fools multiply words.
No one knows what is coming—
who can tell someone else what will happen after them?
15 The toil of fools wearies them;
they do not know the way to town.
16 Woe to the land whose king was a servant[c]
and whose princes feast in the morning.
17 Blessed is the land whose king is of noble birth
and whose princes eat at a proper time—
for strength and not for drunkenness.
18 Through laziness, the rafters sag;
because of idle hands, the house leaks.
19 A feast is made for laughter,
wine makes life merry,
and money is the answer for everything.
20 Do not revile the king even in your thoughts,
or curse the rich in your bedroom,
because a bird in the sky may carry your words,
and a bird on the wing may report what you say.

Audio:

BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 150 versions and 50 languages.: Audio

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Rock And Roll]

It's probably a bit off, but these are my takes. Sometimes I'll read a chapter and think one thing. Then re-read it and see it differently. Then I'll listen to someone else's take and their spin on it makes a lot more sense. And sometimes I'll read a passage many years later and finally understand it in full, how it applies to life, thanks to someone who knows the lesson and explains it almost perfectly. Or if not that, it's because I have enough life experiences to know and put the puzzle piece in the right spot so to say; so that it locks into place securely

Spoiler: Ecclesiastes 6:7-12

Ecclesiastes 6:7-9 kind of takes me to this conclusion when I think about it... Solomon is implying that a man works and toils to survive; for food and drink and whatever else will uphold a man in this life but primarily I believe he is referring to sustenance. And then he goes on to indicate that the soul yearns for different kind of food, it seems. He then begins to question what advantage the wise man has over the fool, and the answer is nothing. In this life, we are but a fleeting mist. The wise man and the foolish man will both meet the same fate in the end, and die one day. It doesn't matter who has more. Then he looks to the poor man who seems to have it more figured out than those with much more, those who have toiled away for their keep. Better is to go straight and live a life with less than to be distracted by the many pleasures of life; as those same pleasures will have you going in circles in the same exact spot while the one with less is advancing forward (since there is nothing there for him to hold him back). Essentially, I think King Solomon is saying that abundance of any kind is akin to a snare. More wisdom than one. More money than one. More possessions and passions, etc. They all can lead to wandering off the path, and then you're feeling lost, because you are lost. I believe Jesus definitely has our best interests at heart when he tells us to sell everything and to give it to the poor. Things are nice, but it is unbelievably easy to allow the pleasures of this world to grab hold of your attention and strip you away from what is truly important for hours, days, weeks, months, years, decades even... Some might even waste their entire life and never see the truth, unfortunately. Another reason why Jesus wants the Gospel spread. God doesn't want people to live their lives blindly, walking in darkness all the days of our lives. That's why God sent His only begotten Son to die on the cross for us.

Ecclesiastes 6:10-12 a call for humbleness and for reality to sink in; that man will never measure up to God. No man can contend with God. He is the one true Almighty God and were are men. There is no comparison, yet still there are some who are oblivious to this fact or even reject it due to either lack of understanding or pride. I think Solomon is also pointing out that there are so many ways to live yet hardly any of them (the paths that we take) are good or even worthy of being taken, or walked, in the first place. And I think he is saying that no man can even say what is truly good to do in one's life. Who can say what is right or good? No man can. Only God could. And who knows what will happen afterwards, when a man's life is over?

My take is that King Solomon is very wise of course, but I do not necessarily take his word as seriously as God's. What is a man's wisdom compared to God's wisdom? It's very little in comparison. But still of use in my opinion. King Solomon is repetitive and negative in the Book of Ecclesiastes, but he's making a lot of good points that most would never even think of. I prefer the Book of Proverbs, but Ecclesiastes is good too

I've heard some say Ecclesiastes is negative or even depressing, especially with the first few verses in chapter 7. But I find a lot of this to be more "comfort in times of trouble". When you're going through it, things can definitely seem bleak, but Solomon is telling us that the hardships we face can build us into stronger people. You can either let things defeat you, or you can rise above, and while the words seem blunt on paper, I think the overall message is uplifting for these verses.
7:9 is definitely a good one.

Do not hasten in your spirit to be angry, For anger rests in the bosom of fools.

I used to be a lot angrier when I was younger and I still have my moments, but I do think this is absolutely true. Anger is a destructive emotion, and while I like to think it can be used constructively (as a form of motivation, for example), ultimately being calmer and reasonable is the better approach.

8:11-13 are worth looking at too.

11 Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.

12 Though a sinner do evil an hundred times, and his days be prolonged, yet surely I know that it shall be well with them that fear God, which fear before him:

13 But it shall not be well with the wicked, neither shall he prolong his days, which are as a shadow; because he feareth not before God.

Basically we all have evil/sin within our hearts and we can't avoid it, despite how hard we may try. However God will forgive sinners who acknowledge their sins and ultimately try to do good in life (we all take missteps). Those who do not seek God and choose evil will be judged accordingly. I think it ties back to the anger thing, it's very easy to get angry about situations that are out of your control, but in the end God will deal justice. That's not to say we should be apathetic or ignore what is happening around us, but letting anger control our emotions and get the better of us is not the way to go.

 

[Franky Family]

Psalms 37:8 Refrain from anger and turn from wrath; do not fret—it leads only to evil.

It will always be best to guard yourself from being or becoming angry. And in my experience, holding fast to God and His word is the best armor. I still remember when I was younger and had many verses circulating in my head all day; I was actively remembering and using scripture as armor. Next to nothing could upset me and I do mean that, my composure and peace of mind was basically bulletproof for a time... months and months at least probably about a year and some change. It's nowhere near that now, I have a lot of work to do to regain that composure but in my experiences, doing your best to adhere to all God's commandments, His statutes, observing the Lord's ordinances and keeping His testimonies; that will guard you. To love the Lord with all your heart, mind, body, and soul is the best way to live and it's also the most important commandment. Loving others as you love yourself is the second most important commandment. If people were to earnestly follow the two most important commandments (Loving the Lord your God and loving others as you would yourself) then life on Earth would be much better for everyone.

Here are some verses about anger:

anger | YouVersion Search | The Bible App

Search results for: anger

www.bible.com

 

[MrPickles]

Sorry to go off topic but I just came across an excellent scripture in John 17

After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed:

"Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

In a nutshell, eternal life is knowing the Father and His son. On an Alpha course I did a few years back, Nicky Gumble said the most important thing you can do with your life is pray. This is building your relationship with the father 'that they know you, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.'

 

[Mickmrly]

I thought Ecclesiastes 9:11 was interesting:

"I have seen something else under the sun:
The race is not to the swift
or the battle to the strong,
nor does food come to the wise
or wealth to the brilliant
or favor to the learned;
but time and chance happen to them all."

While strength, wisdom and riches usually lead to good things, sometimes random chances throws things off course. Random sicknesses and bad circumstances can alter our life pretty substantially, despite how much we try and stick to the right path.

 

[Mickmrly]

In a nutshell, eternal life is knowing the Father and His son. On an Alpha course I did a few years back, Nicky Gumble said the most important thing you can do with your life is pray. This is building your relationship with the father 'that they know you, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.'

It is difficult for me to try and find a balance between quality prayer and quantity of prayer. I find that if I'm praying about specific things I can stay focused, but if I start praying for too long my mind just wanders to other mundane things. I do wonder if there is an ideal prayer life that we should strive to or if we should just do what works out best for ourselves.

 

[MrPickles]

It is difficult for me to try and find a balance between quality prayer and quantity of prayer. I find that if I'm praying about specific things I can stay focused, but if I start praying for too long my mind just wanders to other mundane things. I do wonder if there is an ideal prayer life that we should strive to or if we should just do what works out best for ourselves.

I pray most days, (when I'm working a long shift 'give me strength' or that none of the managers/customers wind me up. We usually finish late so I pray we finish on time. I used to pray I'd win a game then my friend said that was cheating lol. I like to pray when I've lost something and I usually find it before I've finished praying. Our church sometimes has 3 days of prayer and fasting. You can book hour long prayer sessions where you commit to pray for 1hr. I chose between 1-2 am as I get home from work around midnight. That time I felt the Holy Spirit come along and I actually got an impression of what he looked like. He was so fully of joy I got the feeling this guy never has a bad day. My sister is way more committed to prayer than me and she never has had that impression. She has her own business and usually studies and prays for 2-3 hours every morning. If you can set aside a good chunk of time where you won't be disturbed I recommend it. My sister says any time spent with God is never wasted.

 

[MrPickles]

I had a guy from house group say I shouldn't pray for trivial things like when you've lost your keys. But my other friend said if it matters to you it matters to God. The first guy knows the bible back to front but has never had an encounter with the Holy Spirit. Where as the second guy used to pray in house group and I'd feel the Holy Spirit come.

 

[Mickmrly]

I had a guy from house group say I shouldn't pray for trivial things like when you've lost your keys. But my other friend said if it matters to you it matters to God. The first guy knows the bible back to front but has never had an encounter with the Holy Spirit. Where as the second guy used to pray in house group and I'd feel the Holy Spirit come.

Losing your keys could be pretty bad. I think that the second guy has better advice, if it is a true concern to you, you should pray about it. The less anxiety and worry you have, the better.

 

[Franky Family]

Nicky Gumble said the most important thing you can do with your life is pray.

That's actually a good point. I never thought of it that way tbh. With prayer, you're just having a conversation with the Lord. I kind of see it like a loving dad listen to his kid talk about his day with the utmost of care, attentiveness, and love in mind for the child. When you think about it, prayer is simply us talking to our Father in Heaven. A son or daughter having a simple conversation with our Father, as casual as we would speak with our mom, dad, siblings, or friends at the dinner table.

 

[Franky Family]

I logged in specifically to say that I got a couple new Bibles gifted to me and just a few minutes ago I opened one of the new Bibles to a random page because sometimes I'll do that. Well I opened it to Ecclesiastes 8 which is right where I left off and needed to pick back up again. It's a new Bible to me that I just opened for the first time so what are the odds that I open it to the exact chapter that I need to read? There are 1,189 chapters in the Bible

 

[MrPickles]

I logged in specifically to say that I got a couple new Bibles gifted to me and just a few minutes ago I opened one of the new Bibles to a random page because sometimes I'll do that. Well I opened it to Ecclesiastes 8 which is right where I left off and needed to pick back up again. It's a new Bible to me that I just opened for the first time so what are the odds that I open it to the exact chapter that I need to read? There are 1,189 chapters in the Bible

It's not luck mate, when I first became a Christian I was reading the bible cover to cover and often when I went to church for morning communion the reading would often pick up where I left off, if I remember correctly it was talking about king David at the time.

 

[MrPickles]

We live in a strange world where weird things happen. For example a few months back I ordered a new pin for my bank account. I had the feeling it was going to be a scary number like 666 in there somewhere and when I opened it the pin was 5222. I've since changed it. I also suffer with bipolar so it doesn't help when reality messes with you. Other examples of this is when I get addicted to a video game and play for longer than I should the number 666 pops up frequently. I think maybe it's gods way of telling you that you are playing too much

 

[Rock And Roll]

I logged in specifically to say that I got a couple new Bibles gifted to me and just a few minutes ago I opened one of the new Bibles to a random page because sometimes I'll do that. Well I opened it to Ecclesiastes 8 which is right where I left off and needed to pick back up again. It's a new Bible to me that I just opened for the first time so what are the odds that I open it to the exact chapter that I need to read? There are 1,189 chapters in the Bible

Dude the exact same thing happened to me earlier this year! I bought my first bible back in February (previously using my kindle). I opened it up to the exact page/chapter where I continued my reading. Made me smile because it was like a knowing wink from God. Those pages are really thin too, it's unbelievably unlikely that this was a random coincidence for the both of us.

Bit late (busy weekend) but 9 is a really good chapter. I especially like verse 17
"The words of the wise men are heard in quiet more than the cry of him that ruleth among fools"
Another great verse for today, especially as the cry of fools is amplified more than ever because of the internet/social media.

10:2 is a bit of a puzzler.
"A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart is at his left"
Goes against basic human anatomy so I assume it's a statement about morals?

10:18
"By much slothfulness the building decayeth; and through the idleness of hands the house droppeth through"
Again, feels very much like what we see in modern society. Not hyperbole either. Being overweight/obese is at levels we have never seen before which directly correlates with being lazy, and it feels like our society is starting to go backwards because of this. You can't be a successful person if you are lazy. I feel like our countries were founded by motivated men who wanted to make the best out of their lives, and now those types of people are a rare breed in modern times. Most are content with what they have but do no upkeep/maintenance and things are starting to roll backwards.

 

[Mickmrly]

Sorry for being late. This week we will be finishing Ecclesiastes, with Ecclesiastes 11-12 being the reading for this week:

Bible Gateway passage: Ecclesiastes 11-12 - New International Version

Invest in Many Ventures - Ship your grain across the sea; after many days you may receive a return. Invest in seven ventures, yes, in eight; you do not know what disaster may come upon the land. If clouds are full of water, they pour rain on the earth. Whether a tree falls to the south or to the...

www.biblegateway.com

Spoiler: Verses

Invest in Many Ventures

11 Ship your grain across the sea;
after many days you may receive a return.
2 Invest in seven ventures, yes, in eight;
you do not know what disaster may come upon the land.
3 If clouds are full of water,
they pour rain on the earth.
Whether a tree falls to the south or to the north,
in the place where it falls, there it will lie.
4 Whoever watches the wind will not plant;
whoever looks at the clouds will not reap.
5 As you do not know the path of the wind,
or how the body is formed[a] in a mother's womb,
so you cannot understand the work of God,
the Maker of all things.
6 Sow your seed in the morning,
and at evening let your hands not be idle,
for you do not know which will succeed,
whether this or that,
or whether both will do equally well.

Remember Your Creator While Young
7 Light is sweet,
and it pleases the eyes to see the sun.
8 However many years anyone may live,
let them enjoy them all.
But let them remember the days of darkness,
for there will be many.
Everything to come is meaningless.
9 You who are young, be happy while you are young,
and let your heart give you joy in the days of your youth.
Follow the ways of your heart
and whatever your eyes see,
but know that for all these things
God will bring you into judgment.
10 So then, banish anxiety from your heart
and cast off the troubles of your body,
for youth and vigor are meaningless.

12 Remember your Creator
in the days of your youth,
before the days of trouble come
and the years approach when you will say,
"I find no pleasure in them"—
2 before the sun and the light
and the moon and the stars grow dark,
and the clouds return after the rain;
3 when the keepers of the house tremble,
and the strong men stoop,
when the grinders cease because they are few,
and those looking through the windows grow dim;
4 when the doors to the street are closed
and the sound of grinding fades;
when people rise up at the sound of birds,
but all their songs grow faint;
5 when people are afraid of heights
and of dangers in the streets;
when the almond tree blossoms
and the grasshopper drags itself along
and desire no longer is stirred.
Then people go to their eternal home
and mourners go about the streets.
6 Remember him—before the silver cord is severed,
and the golden bowl is broken;
before the pitcher is shattered at the spring,
and the wheel broken at the well,
7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from,
and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
8 "Meaningless! Meaningless!" says the Teacher.[b]
"Everything is meaningless!"

The Conclusion of the Matter
9 Not only was the Teacher wise, but he also imparted knowledge to the people. He pondered and searched out and set in order many proverbs. 10 The Teacher searched to find just the right words, and what he wrote was upright and true.

11 The words of the wise are like goads, their collected sayings like firmly embedded nails—given by one shepherd.[c] 12 Be warned, my son, of anything in addition to them.

Of making many books there is no end, and much study wearies the body.

13 Now all has been heard;
here is the conclusion of the matter:
Fear God and keep his commandments,
for this is the duty of all mankind.
14 For God will bring every deed into judgment,
including every hidden thing,
whether it is good or evil.

BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 150 versions and 50 languages.: Audio

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Rock And Roll]

The last chapters of Ecclesiastes are the hardest to make sense of or gather insight from. It pretty much reads like "we are all going to die, make the most of your life and obey God's commandments." Maybe that was the point though. What exactly happens to us after we die is a mystery, so the writings seem to reflect this.

The verse that really stood out for me was 11-4

"He that observeth the wind shall not sow; and he that regardeth the clouds shall not reap."

Basically saying you have to take action in your life, and not taking chances/waiting on things will lead to nothing. You can't let failure or potential failure stop you from setting out on a path.

 

[Mickmrly]

The last chapters of Ecclesiastes are the hardest to make sense of or gather insight from. It pretty much reads like "we are all going to die, make the most of your life and obey God's commandments." Maybe that was the point though. What exactly happens to us after we die is a mystery, so the writings seem to reflect this.

The verse that really stood out for me was 11-4

"He that observeth the wind shall not sow; and he that regardeth the clouds shall not reap."

Basically saying you have to take action in your life, and not taking chances/waiting on things will lead to nothing. You can't let failure or potential failure stop you from setting out on a path.

Ecclesiastes really does have some good practical advice, like verse 11:4, mixed in with the everything is meaningless theme. I do find it a strange combination to be honest, but if we can gain some extra wisdom and insight from reading it, it has served its purpose well.

 

[Mickmrly]

So far in this Bible thread we have covered:

John
James
Joshua
Judges
Ecclesiastes

We've just finished going through Ecclesiastes, and I'm thinking that we should probably start with Proverbs next week. When we were choosing Ecclesiastes, some posters were saying that Proverbs and Ecclesiastes go well together, so it seems like a good idea for the next book.

 

[DonDonDonPata]

So far in this Bible thread we have covered:

John
James
Joshua
Judges
Ecclesiastes

We've just finished going through Ecclesiastes, and I'm thinking that we should probably start with Proverbs next week. When we were choosing Ecclesiastes, some posters were saying that Proverbs and Ecclesiastes go well together, so it seems like a good idea for the next book.

I'd be down for some Proverbs.

 

[Franky Family]

I'd be down for some Proverbs.

It'll be great to read and study Proverbs. I used to read random verses on breaks every so often and while I didn't understand all of them they kept the mind sharp and kept me alert. It'll be great to dive into the scripture with others and hear other perspectives. Proverbs is like a waterfall of gems poring from each page, and I personally enjoy reading that book a lot more than Ecclesiastes.

 

[MrPickles]

I'd enjoy studying proverbs, I would like to hear the groups thoughts on Romans at some point,

 

[MrPickles]

I always found this one funny

Proverbs 25:24 Better to live on a corner of the roof
than share a house with a quarrelsome wife.

 

[Mickmrly]

So it's settled, next week we'll begin studying the book of Proverbs.

 

[Mickmrly]

This week's reading is Proverbs 1-2:

Bible Gateway passage: Proverbs 1-2 - New International Version

Purpose and Theme - The proverbs of Solomon son of David, king of Israel: for gaining wisdom and instruction; for understanding words of insight; for receiving instruction in prudent behavior, doing what is right and just and fair; for giving prudence to those who are simple, knowledge and...

www.biblegateway.com

Spoiler: Verses

Purpose and Theme
1 The proverbs of Solomon son of David, king of Israel:

2 for gaining wisdom and instruction;
for understanding words of insight;
3 for receiving instruction in prudent behavior,
doing what is right and just and fair;
4 for giving prudence to those who are simple,[a]
knowledge and discretion to the young—
5 let the wise listen and add to their learning,
and let the discerning get guidance—
6 for understanding proverbs and parables,
the sayings and riddles of the wise.[b]
7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge,
but fools[c] despise wisdom and instruction.

Warning Against the Invitation of Sinful Men
8 Listen, my son, to your father's instruction
and do not forsake your mother's teaching.
9 They are a garland to grace your head
and a chain to adorn your neck.
10 My son, if sinful men entice you,
do not give in to them.
11 If they say, "Come along with us;
let's lie in wait for innocent blood,
let's ambush some harmless soul;
12 let's swallow them alive, like the grave,
and whole, like those who go down to the pit;
13 we will get all sorts of valuable things
and fill our houses with plunder;
14 cast lots with us;
we will all share the loot"—
15 my son, do not go along with them,
do not set foot on their paths;
16 for their feet rush into evil,
they are swift to shed blood.
17 How useless to spread a net
where every bird can see it!
18 These men lie in wait for their own blood;
they ambush only themselves!
19 Such are the paths of all who go after ill-gotten gain;
it takes away the life of those who get it.

Wisdom's Rebuke
20 Out in the open wisdom calls aloud,
she raises her voice in the public square;
21 on top of the wall[d] she cries out,
at the city gate she makes her speech:
22 "How long will you who are simple love your simple ways?
How long will mockers delight in mockery
and fools hate knowledge?
23 Repent at my rebuke!
Then I will pour out my thoughts to you,
I will make known to you my teachings.
24 But since you refuse to listen when I call
and no one pays attention when I stretch out my hand,
25 since you disregard all my advice
and do not accept my rebuke,
26 I in turn will laugh when disaster strikes you;
I will mock when calamity overtakes you—
27 when calamity overtakes you like a storm,
when disaster sweeps over you like a whirlwind,
when distress and trouble overwhelm you.
28 "Then they will call to me but I will not answer;
they will look for me but will not find me,
29 since they hated knowledge
and did not choose to fear the Lord.
30 Since they would not accept my advice
and spurned my rebuke,
31 they will eat the fruit of their ways
and be filled with the fruit of their schemes.
32 For the waywardness of the simple will kill them,
and the complacency of fools will destroy them;
33 but whoever listens to me will live in safety
and be at ease, without fear of harm."

Moral Benefits of Wisdom
2 My son, if you accept my words
and store up my commands within you,
2 turning your ear to wisdom
and applying your heart to understanding—
3 indeed, if you call out for insight
and cry aloud for understanding,
4 and if you look for it as for silver
and search for it as for hidden treasure,
5 then you will understand the fear of the Lord
and find the knowledge of God.
6 For the Lord gives wisdom;
from his mouth come knowledge and understanding.
7 He holds success in store for the upright,
he is a shield to those whose walk is blameless,
8 for he guards the course of the just
and protects the way of his faithful ones.
9 Then you will understand what is right and just
and fair—every good path.
10 For wisdom will enter your heart,
and knowledge will be pleasant to your soul.
11 Discretion will protect you,
and understanding will guard you.
12 Wisdom will save you from the ways of wicked men,
from men whose words are perverse,
13 who have left the straight paths
to walk in dark ways,
14 who delight in doing wrong
and rejoice in the perverseness of evil,
15 whose paths are crooked
and who are devious in their ways.
16 Wisdom will save you also from the adulterous woman,
from the wayward woman with her seductive words,
17 who has left the partner of her youth
and ignored the covenant she made before God.[e]
18 Surely her house leads down to death
and her paths to the spirits of the dead.
19 None who go to her return
or attain the paths of life.
20 Thus you will walk in the ways of the good
and keep to the paths of the righteous.
21 For the upright will live in the land,
and the blameless will remain in it;
22 but the wicked will be cut off from the land,
and the unfaithful will be torn from it.

BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 150 versions and 50 languages.: Audio

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Mickmrly]

Proverbs 2: 21-22 concludes a section talking about the benefits of wisdom:
"For the upright will live in the land, and the blameless will remain in it;
but the wicked will be cut off from the land, and the unfaithful will be torn from it."

I think that while wisdom is necessary for long term success, often the wicked and unfaithful use crooked ways to keep themselves stable and thriving, despite their lack of wisdom.
While wisdom can show the way to the right destination, there needs to be sufficient strength to be able to protect the good and upright people of society.
Knowing what to do is not the same as getting the thing done. Wise and virtuous people need to establish a position of strength to keep things in order, so that bad actors won't destroy those who try to do the right things in life.

 

[MrPickles]

19 Such are the paths of all who go after ill-gotten gain;
it takes away the life of those who get it.

In my experience criminals eventually end up in jail. They may make a lot of money in the short term but the money is cursed. Better to put in an honest days work and not be looking over your shoulder.


Proverbs 13:11 Dishonest money dwindles away, but whoever gathers money little by little makes it grow.

My cousin made a lot of dishonest money and wasted it on designer watches and fancy teeth. I believe he is in prison now but that part of the family stopped talking to me when I wouldn't lend them money to pay off Russian mafia. I took advise (was planning to help) but everyone I spoke to advised me not to (including my nun friend)

 

[Franky Family]

Proverbs 1:15-19 NKJV

[15] My son, do not walk in the way with them, Keep your foot from their path; [16] For their feet run to evil, And they make haste to shed blood. [17] Surely, in vain the net is spread In the sight of any bird; [18] But they lie in wait for their own blood, They lurk secretly for their own lives. [19] So are the ways of everyone who is greedy for gain; It takes away the life of its owners.

Spoiler: Discussion

Everything backfires on evildoers in the end and sin brings only loss and despair

 

[Mista]

May a muslim man join you lot and read with you?