Thread: Intergalactic: The Heretic Prophet - Reveal Trailer (new Naughty Dog game, featuring the Pet Shop Boys)
Yep! The drive to be more cinematic and to cram in more story led us here.

Regarding mocap actors, how much of their work goes into the animation for the player and NPCs, and how much goes into the cutscenes? Genuinely curious. If a studio was mocapping just for the animations, I imagine it would be a lot cheaper (but maybe I'm making a dumb assumption)

So i'll be honest, i have never stepped a foot into a Mocap recording space. But i have worked on many games where it's utilized and sat through at least a dozen GDC talks on it.

So it varies studio to studio, game to game. some do it just for animation of movement (like what we did on Tiger Woods to get Tiger's swings) and there are some that use it for facial animations too.

Since i know the least about the later, i'll speak to the former. So in the Tiger series we would get Tiger to come in every few years to capture his exact swing (as it changes over time). However we did not bring in the other PGA golfers. Instead we brought in a few solid amateurs to do swing variations that we would attach to the other golfer's models.

In all cases the animation still has to be cleaned up. Partly due to the fidelity of the mocap, and partly due to the difference between a real human moving and how it looks on a 3d model and its rigging limitations.

It's like 3d laser scans of environments. It still has to be cleaned up and adapted. But it can help with accuracy and speed up the creation process.
 
I miss the old days when the voice actors were (for the most part) just people from the studio unless you didn't have anyone who would fit the character. I have hated how the industry has married its self to hollywood. It has bloated budgets with little value in return imo.

The only actors you actually need these days (and i am being generous here) are motion capture performers.
I don't think hiring real actors is a bad practice in itself. You definitely want someone to deliver a competent performance for your game so why not hire a thespian who does this for a living?

But you don't need the biggest Pedowood names to give you a good performance. After all the drama they experienced with stars like Ray Liotta and Burt Reynolds whilst making GTA: Vice City, Rockstar made the right call in hiring relative unknown actors for the lead protagonists in their titles.

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I mean shit, we didn't even know who these people were until after the games were released. That's because Rockstar made the smart decision to hype up the GAME rather than the actors playing the parts. That's why I feel a bit of sympathy for Tati Gabrielle. Cuckmann has set her up for mockery from the chud gamers he wanted to own by trying to hype her up.

I don't love the Hollywood dick sucking either. Sometimes an actor fits in well, but it mostly just feels like they're paying extra for the ability to advertise a big name. MGS5 was heavily butchered by not just having an unknown voice actor. Then they could have afforded to keep the main character's voice actor the studio for enough time to record more than 17 lines.
For real? Keifer Sutherland only had 17 lines as Snake? Ouch. For someone like Kojima who loves to insert multi page rants in his dialogue, that's unthinkable. Shit, I remember David Hayter having a ton of dialogue to read out in the original MGS, and that in itself was unusual because Solid Snake was supposed to be a stoic character who didn't say much.

I'm stunned at the complete lack of professionalism and apparently no NDAs regarding getting into publicized fights with potential customers. Obsidian, Bioware, and now Naughty Dog all need better PR and Legal because it seems whatever they have now is not good enough.

Or they don't care at all for potential customers and revenue. I would think shareholders would be infuriated.
In a saner world, people like Neil Cuckmann or Matt Handjob would have laid off immediately for their anti-consumer fuckery. Especially if they worked in a Japanese company, they don't fuck around.

Alas, we live in a Clown World where the companies are infected with DEI brainrot from the lowest up to the highest positions of upper management. These SJW cultists will protect their own so the only thing that's sure to happen is they'll happily ignore the backlash by going dark on social media for awhile.
 
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So i'll be honest, i have never stepped a foot into a Mocap recording space. But i have worked on many games where it's utilized and sat through at least a dozen GDC talks on it.

So it varies studio to studio, game to game. some do it just for animation of movement (like what we did on Tiger Woods to get Tiger's swings) and there are some that use it for facial animations too.

Since i know the least about the later, i'll speak to the former. So in the Tiger series we would get Tiger to come in every few years to capture his exact swing (as it changes over time). However we did not bring in the other PGA golfers. Instead we brought in a few solid amateurs to do swing variations that we would attach to the other golfer's models.

In all cases the animation still has to be cleaned up. Partly due to the fidelity of the mocap, and partly due to the difference between a real human moving and how it looks on a 3d model and its rigging limitations.

It's like 3d laser scans of environments. It still has to be cleaned up and adapted. But it can help with accuracy and speed up the creation process.

Would it be fair to say that more mocap = more labor hours spent "cleaning up" the mocap? Seems like something that could spiral out of control when there's so much raw mocap footage to work with.

Thanks for the insider insight.
 
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I miss the old days when the voice actors were (for the most part) just people from the studio unless you didn't have anyone who would fit the character. I have hated how the industry has married its self to hollywood. It has bloated budgets with little value in return imo.

The only actors you actually need these days (and i am being generous here) are motion capture performers.

Theater kids are the problem with a lot of this narcissistic nonsense.
 
Would it be fair to say that more mocap = more labor hours spent "cleaning up" the mocap? Seems like something that could spiral out of control when there's so much raw mocap footage to work with.

Thanks for the insider insight.

Assuming you mean more unique (or variations) yes. But if you mean more "takes" no. Think of it like filming a movie scene. you can shoot it 10x, but you will only do post production work to the take you like best (or the amalgamated take)
 
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Assuming you mean more unique (or variations) yes. But if you mean more "takes" no. Think of it like filming a movie scene. you can shoot it 10x, but you will only do post production work to the take you like best (or the amalgamated take)

Yep that makes sense to me. I figured you'd need one good take for each unique "piece" of animation you're trying to create, but if a game is full of cutscenes with hours of "unique animation" I figured that would take way longer in post production compared to the mocap needed to animate the player and some NPCs for regular gameplay.
 
For real? Keifer Sutherland only had 17 lines as Snake? Ouch. For someone like Kojima who loves to insert multi page rants in his dialogue, that's unthinkable. Shit, I remember David Hayter having a ton of dialogue to read out in the original MGS, and that in itself was unusual because Solid Snake was supposed to be a stoic character who didn't say much.

haha no I was definitely exaggerating for effect there, but he does have extremely limited dialog. And you just know the entire production had to revolve around the fact that the main character's voice actor was very expensive and wasn't going to do anything extra. Kojima was a moron for doing that. Kiefer didn't give a shit about the project.
 
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haha no I was definitely exaggerating for effect there, but he does have extremely limited dialog. And you just know the entire production had to revolve around the fact that the main character's voice actor was very expensive and wasn't going to do anything extra. Kojima was a moron for doing that. Kiefer didn't give a shit about the project.

I always say that Kiefer went totally method for the role and recorded all his lines while in a medically induced coma.
 
Aw look... Naughty Dog is feeling festive. Even that roid monster Abby is joining in.



Joel and Ellie look like they've become infected.

BTW if anyone remembers Colin Moriarty, he is now proclaiming that anyone who has a problem with Neil Druckman or Naughty Dog in general is suffering from a case of derangement syndrome. Says there's nothing woke going on at all.
 
Joel and Ellie look like they've become infected.

BTW if anyone remembers Colin Moriarty, he is now proclaiming that anyone who has a problem with Neil Druckman or Naughty Dog in general is suffering from a case of derangement syndrome. Says there's nothing woke going on at all.
Are you fucking kidding me? And here I thought Moriarty was one of the more level headed gamez jurnalitz.
 
Yeah, I usually listen to Moriarty's main podcast Sacred Symbols when doing cardio etc... For as much ire as he caused with his colleagues over his dad joke about women, he certainly is cucked when it comes to DEI and Intersectionality. He, his son and his other podcaster are lefties who try and pull the BIll Maher, I don't know what the big problem is with all of this stuff, schtick and he isn't fooling anyone who isn't in his political tribe.

Reminder of his transgression the left got their butts hurt about:



Based, but Colin is a waffle.

I just started the podcast episode after the Election and they quickly gloss over it, unless they get into it later in the podcast (kind of like what Giant Bomb did on 2016), but the failures happening with Triple AAA games this year is just so confusing to them. They chalk up the failure of Concord to it being sent to die in a saturated GAAS Shooter market and make a passing comment that the character designs are odd-but not anything that should be construed as DEI Slop by committee design.

Colin is very much a product of his time in vidya in San Francisco. Were it not for the heat he got from his dad joke on women, he would be wondering why everyone is picking on Ubisoft and face blind to the context of Neil Druckmanns latest trailer.
 
Yeah, I usually listen to Moriarty's main podcast Sacred Symbols when doing cardio etc... For as much ire as he caused with his colleagues over his dad joke about women, he certainly is cucked when it comes to DEI and Intersectionality. He, his son and his other podcaster are lefties who try and pull the BIll Maher, I don't know what the big problem is with all of this stuff, schtick and he isn't fooling anyone who isn't in his political tribe.
Oh. A Bill Maher type. I honestly despise them just as much as the Woke Left. They claim to be based and to mock the lunatic SJWs within their side. But all they are is just wishy washy and unwilling address the real problems plaguing the Liberals obsession with DEI.
 
Mortiarty is the JK Rowling of games journalists. You forget the rest of their views are insufferable because they break with the orthodoxy on one or two issues vehemently.
Yeah. I can understand that comparison. Don't get me wrong. I absolutely adore JK Rowling's stand against the Troon Menace and fighting for REAL WOMEN'S rights. But I won't forget that she's held pretty retarded liberal views in the past.
 
Yeah. I can understand that comparison. Don't get me wrong. I absolutely adore JK Rowling's stand against the Troon Menace and fighting for REAL WOMEN'S rights. But I won't forget that she's held pretty retarded liberal views in the past.

In the present.
 
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I can't help but think that Druckman is not just fighting against gamers, but also against the Japanese leadership at Sony. Those guys are 100% cultural conservatives, and they're happy to tolerate woke culture so long as it doesn't come anywhere near Japan. They've been sending out signals recently that they will no longer tolerate woke games that don't make money, so I think Druckman is doubling down in an attempt to continue the hard-left status quo of the Western games industry. If Intergalactic doesn't meet sales projections, I'm pretty sure Japanese leaders will can his ass or neuter him.
 
I can't help but think that Druckman is not just fighting against gamers, but also against the Japanese leadership at Sony. Those guys are 100% cultural conservatives, and they're happy to tolerate woke culture so long as it doesn't come anywhere near Japan. They've been sending out signals recently that they will no longer tolerate woke games that don't make money, so I think Druckman is doubling down in an attempt to continue the hard-left status quo of the Western games industry. If Intergalactic doesn't meet sales projections, I'm pretty sure Japanese leaders will can his ass or neuter him.

One could hope, but I don't know a thing about Naughty Dog's company roster. Whoever is below Neil could be just as dedicated to the activist cause as he is. Whoever is below that person could be in the same cult as well.

I don't know what the solution is other than time. Let these companies watch what fails in the market and what succeeds in the market and work from there. I think this game will do fine and make money, but will just come short of their internal hopes/expectations. I'd like to be wrong, but I don't think they're getting a loud message from this game's "failure."
 
One could hope, but I don't know a thing about Naughty Dog's company roster. Whoever is below Neil could be just as dedicated to the activist cause as he is. Whoever is below that person could be in the same cult as well.

I don't know what the solution is other than time. Let these companies watch what fails in the market and what succeeds in the market and work from there. I think this game will do fine and make money, but will just come short of their internal hopes/expectations. I'd like to be wrong, but I don't think they're getting a loud message from this game's "failure."

Their videos have been ratioed into Bolivian. Historically, no game has suffered that and gone on to make any money. It's been ratioed worse than Concord.
 
Their videos have been ratioed into Bolivian. Historically, no game has suffered that and gone on to make any money. It's been ratioed worse than Concord.

I just know people in real life who will see a commercial, and just say "did you see the new PS5 game commercial? The graphics look so real! I'm getting that"

They have no more exposure to it than what commercials are presented to them. If Sony pushes it hard I just assume it'll do "fine." But if it's a shit game with lots of agenda shoved in, I hope it fails.
 
I just know people in real life who will see a commercial, and just say "did you see the new PS5 game commercial? The graphics look so real! I'm getting that"

They have no more exposure to it than what commercials are presented to them. If Sony pushes it hard I just assume it'll do "fine." But if it's a shit game with lots of agenda shoved in, I hope it fails.

The "consumers" will absolutely buy it. They always do. I don't think it will be enough in this case. Fingers crossed.
 
One could hope, but I don't know a thing about Naughty Dog's company roster. Whoever is below Neil could be just as dedicated to the activist cause as he is. Whoever is below that person could be in the same cult as well.

I don't know what the solution is other than time. Let these companies watch what fails in the market and what succeeds in the market and work from there. I think this game will do fine and make money, but will just come short of their internal hopes/expectations. I'd like to be wrong, but I don't think they're getting a loud message from this game's "failure."
It's been long suspected that it was disgruntled devs at Naughty Dog itself that leaked the videos of The Last of Us 2, showing gameplay and cutscenes that spoiled significant plot details, such as Joel's death. If it's true, I don't think everyone in the Naughty Dog roster is really a cultist. Some of them are probably normies who are passionate about making games and are sick and tired of all the DEI pandering but dare not speak out lest they get blacklisted.

Personally, I just find it pathetic that woke believers like Cuckmann are doubling down on this shite when it's obvious from recent events that the public has had ENOUGH of all this DEI shite. Voters made that clear by voting for Donald Trump back to the White House; tv and movie watchers made it clear by tanking the viewing figures and box office of recent Hollywood releases; and finally gamers made it clear by not supporting pandering shite such as Dustborn and Concord.
 
It's been long suspected that it was disgruntled devs at Naughty Dog itself that leaked the videos of The Last of Us 2, showing gameplay and cutscenes that spoiled significant plot details, such as Joel's death. If it's true, I don't think everyone in the Naughty Dog roster is really a cultist. Some of them are probably normies who are passionate about making games and are sick and tired of all the DEI pandering but dare not speak out lest they get blacklisted.

Personally, I just find it pathetic that woke believers like Cuckmann are doubling down on this shite when it's obvious from recent events that the public has had ENOUGH of all this DEI shite. Voters made that clear by voting for Donald Trump back to the White House; tv and movie watchers made it clear by tanking the viewing figures and box office of recent Hollywood releases; and finally gamers made it clear by not supporting pandering shite such as Dustborn and Concord.

For sure. We all saw what happened. They had a normal team and then Neil went to Anita University and came back for Thanksgiving break and lectured everyone on the new things he learned in school a few weeks ago.

I have to assume the majority of the team was pissed off about it. But I think the majority of that majority probably just wants to keep their jobs, too. I've had to do corporate compliance videos and quizzes and shit that I vehemently disagree with, but it's just a paycheck to me so whatever. It just makes me less committed to the company and I can sleep just fine. Very few people are gonna throw their lives out of whack to be the ones to stand up and point out what's obvious.
 
One could hope, but I don't know a thing about Naughty Dog's company roster. Whoever is below Neil could be just as dedicated to the activist cause as he is. Whoever is below that person could be in the same cult as well.

I don't know what the solution is other than time. Let these companies watch what fails in the market and what succeeds in the market and work from there. I think this game will do fine and make money, but will just come short of their internal hopes/expectations. I'd like to be wrong, but I don't think they're getting a loud message from this game's "failure."

Making an example of someone tends to be very effective.

As for Sony leadership, they already got the message with Concord. They're interested in making money, and they're even more interested in maintaining control of their businesses, especially when they're underperforming. Make no mistake, this is a make or break moment for Druckman, and the game will have to reach Last of Us 1 and 2's first week numbers or close to them to be considered a success.
 
Historically, no game has suffered that and gone on to make any money.

An intersesting Ackshwally: Infinite Warfare had its reveal trailer become one of the most disliked youtube videos of all time at the time, yet it went on to be one of the best selling games on PS4.
 
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An intersesting Ackshwally: Infinite Warfare had its reveal trailer become one of the most disliked youtube videos of all time at the time, yet it went on to be one of the best selling games on PS4.

Infinite warfare was also the worst selling modern COD by a mile and a massive failure in the eyes of ABK, that meant they immediately reversed course away from the sci fi elements in the following titles.

The fan backlash was very much real and had financial consequences.

I say this as someone who genuinely enjoyed Infinite Warfare. It's literally the one COD I like though, so it's a pretty great example of what happens when you make a game for a different audience than your existing one.
 
Infinite warfare was also the worst selling modern COD by a mile and a massive failure in the eyes of ABK, that meant they immediately reversed course away from the sci fi elements in the following titles.

I don't have the data for it, but I'm positive it's either tied or barely beaten by Black Ops 4, so not really the worst selling "by a mile".

And the point was that despite all the backlash, it still sold many millions more than other big games, shit it probably sold more than Battlefield 1 which was the competition at the time, and I remember the insane Bf1 hype.