[Bolivar]

Does anyone have any good arguments from theologians or clergy that reconcile the idea of us truly having free will with the idea that God's omniscience and existence outside of time as we understand it means He has complete foreknowledge of all events that ever will be and had that foreknowledge even before he willed the act of creation?

This has been a huge stumbling block for me and I've spent a few hours reading and looking up videos on YouTube, but have yet to find a satisfactory explanation except the one that says free will requires that God *not* know with certainty what choices we will make, but that does not seem to be the position of most Christians.

This is the mystery of predestination, and it is properly called a mystery for many important reasons. First, because, as a creature, it is impossible for us in this life to understand the omnipotence of our creator, at least until those of us who are fortunate enough will share in their full inheritance with Him in heaven. Following the God who condescended to be born as an infant in a cave and to die as a criminal on a cross (and be persecuted and rejected for all his years in between) demands we follow in his humility, and accepting this limitation is part of that. Not dwelling on this may have been the intent of our Lord when, asked if few indeed will be saved, he did not provide the answer to the question, but only encouraged his interlocutor, as he does all of us, to nevertheless "enter by the narrow gate."

We should also accept predestination as a mystery because, from the time of Pelagius to that of Jansenius, and even for the liberal theologians of today, attempts to understand predestination have historically led to some of the most serious and catastrophic heresies in the history of the Church. What's more, many of them appeal to the writings of St. Augustine, which at first glance appears to be a reasonable reading, were it not for the fact that he himself combatted heresies such as theirs in his lifetime. Faiths like Calvinism ultimately distill down to the absurd proposition that God forces certain people to sin, against all Biblical passages and tradition to the contrary. It also unintentionally professes atheism, because the concept, that there is nothing certain people can do to obtain salvation, means that even God and his grace are incapable of saving them.

It is also a mystery because each of us in our lives must unite our own will to God's. Out Lord himself tells us in plain language that we can believe in him, profess his kingship, perform miracles with his divine power and in his holy name, but unless these things were done in accordance with the divine will, He will disavow us.

St. Alphonsus Liguori treats of this subject in the second half ofThe Great Means of Salvation and Perfection. What the title refers to, and the subject of the book, is prayer itself, and he shows from the Bible and the Church Fathers how prayer, meditation, and the intercession of the Saints are all required for our salvation. This book will supercharge and accelerate your spiritual life, but the second half of the book deals with the problem of free will and the heresies that have tried to clarify this mystery, as he himself was writing in the time of Jansenism. As you can imagine, dealing with such a complicated topic gets very technical and it can be very hard to understand for someone without proper theological and philosophical training such as myself. You can get this book along with a collection of St. Alphonsus' works in e-book form for 2.99 on Amazon and I can't recommend it enough. You can become a Saint simply by reading and re-reading the works of Saint Alphonsus and putting them into practice.

I was having similar thoughts recently and I thought a bit about predestination and how if we really actually have choices based on our circumstances. I mean it is relatively easy to have faith and follow the rules of God when you are doing well, but for those who are suffering it is a lot more likely they will start breaking God's rules and lose faith, sort of leading to a situation where those who start falling, continue falling while those who who do not fall too much to begin with continue on the straight path. I mean free will is basically limited to making a good choice or not in the end, although sometimes there are no good choices to make in certain situations.

I will keep looking around for some good arguments from more experienced Theologians and clergy as well, but it seems that the internet can be a limited in some particular topics regrading Christian concepts. I was looking around the other day for an explanation as to how David could be so close to God while also committing such big sins, and the answers were not that convincing.

There is nothing any of us can do to merit closeness to God, it comes exclusively through his own merciful condescension. But in the case of David, St. Hilary of Poitiers tells us that God called him "a man after My own heart" because of his meekness, or what we might call self-restraint. As Israel's anointed king, which is the meaning of the Hebrew word "Messiah" and the Greek "Christ," he is a type of our Lord, the person in history who has merited persecution the least of anyone who has ever lived, yet never raised a finger against any of it, even though he could have instantly annihilated his persecutors at any moment he wished. Indeed, God's boundless self-restraint is beyond all comprehension apart from his boundless love for mankind, because our actions in history have merited Him destroying our world and wiping our existence from the universe countless times over. I definitely recommend reading St. Hilary's commentary on David's Psalms for spiritual meditation and to understand more about the paradox of David.

 

[Mickmrly]

This is the mystery of predestination, and it is properly called a mystery for many important reasons. First, because, as a creature, it is impossible for us in this life to understand the omnipotence of our creator, at least until those of us who are fortunate enough will share in their full inheritance with Him in heaven. Following the God who condescended to be born as an infant in a cave and to die as a criminal on a cross (and be persecuted and rejected for all his years in between) demands we follow in his humility, and accepting this limitation is part of that. Not dwelling on this may have been the intent of our Lord when, asked if few indeed will be saved, he did not provide the answer to the question, but only encouraged his interlocutor, as he does all of us, to nevertheless "enter by the narrow gate."

We should also accept predestination as a mystery because, from the time of Pelagius to that of Jansenius, and even for the liberal theologians of today, attempts to understand predestination have historically led to some of the most serious and catastrophic heresies in the history of the Church. What's more, many of them appeal to the writings of St. Augustine, which at first glance appears to be a reasonable reading, were it not for the fact that he himself combatted heresies such as theirs in his lifetime. Faiths like Calvinism ultimately distill down to the absurd proposition that God forces certain people to sin, against all Biblical passages and tradition to the contrary. It also unintentionally professes atheism, because the concept, that there is nothing certain people can do to obtain salvation, means that even God and his grace are incapable of saving them.

It is also a mystery because each of us in our lives must unite our own will to God's. Out Lord himself tells us in plain language that we can believe in him, profess his kingship, perform miracles with his divine power and in his holy name, but unless these things were done in accordance with the divine will, He will disavow us.

St. Alphonsus Liguori treats of this subject in the second half ofThe Great Means of Salvation and Perfection. What the title refers to, and the subject of the book, is prayer itself, and he shows from the Bible and the Church Fathers how prayer, meditation, and the intercession of the Saints are all required for our salvation. This book will supercharge and accelerate your spiritual life, but the second half of the book deals with the problem of free will and the heresies that have tried to clarify this mystery, as he himself was writing in the time of Jansenism. As you can imagine, dealing with such a complicated topic gets very technical and it can be very hard to understand for someone without proper theological and philosophical training such as myself. You can get this book along with a collection of St. Alphonsus' works in e-book form for 2.99 on Amazon and I can't recommend it enough. You can become a Saint simply by reading and re-reading the works of Saint Alphonsus and putting them into practice.


There is nothing any of us can do to merit closeness to God, it comes exclusively through his own merciful condescension. But in the case of David, St. Hilary of Poitiers tells us that God called him "a man after My own heart" because of his meekness, or what we might call self-restraint. As Israel's anointed king, which is the meaning of the Hebrew word "Messiah" and the Greek "Christ," he is a type of our Lord, the person in history who has merited persecution the least of anyone who has ever lived, yet never raised a finger against any of it, even though he could have instantly annihilated his persecutors at any moment he wished. Indeed, God's boundless self-restraint is beyond all comprehension apart from his boundless love for mankind, because our actions in history have merited Him destroying our world and wiping our existence from the universe countless times over. I definitely recommend reading St. Hilary's commentary on David's Psalms for spiritual meditation and to understand more about the paradox of David.

Sometimes thinking about the ways of God does give me a headache, I suppose it truly is impossible to truly fathom the ways and reasoning behind all of God's actions. Also, when pondering predestination, I did forget about the existence of the grace of God temporarily. That would help play a role in shaping our paths and final destination.

I suppose apart from the affair incident, David was usually quite self restrained. Although to be honest I don't think I will ever truly understand his line of reasoning for such actions. It seems to me a pointless waste when he already had so many important things to do.

Thanks for the St Hilary commentary link by the way, I think I will need to set some time aside to focus on reading it, I do tend to skim through text these days and I think it would be better to try and look at Psalm 53 a bit deeper. I think because I am more action and goal focused I don't usually dwell too much on the more philosophical/symbolic side of things, but I'll try and follow along with the homily provided.

 

[Bolivar]

I suppose apart from the affair incident, David was usually quite self restrained. Although to be honest I don't think I will ever truly understand his line of reasoning for such actions. It seems to me a pointless waste when he already had so many important things to do.

To clarify, meekness seems to refer moreso to self-restraint from violence. David was a great warrior and commander, but never harmed his persecutor Saul when he had the opportunity to end Saul's pursuits, and David also evacuated the Holy City when his son staged a coup. That's not to say that lust isn't a kind of violence of its own, but against purity.

You also a make a good observation about him having better things to do - we can often see the punishment of the Kings of Judah when they looked beyond their actual duties, such as Josiah confronting the Egyptians on his border instead of letting them through to aid the Northern Kingdom Israelites, or Saul and Uzziah usurping the priestly functions for themselves.

 

[DonDonDonPata]

Unfortunately most folks aren't taught to catch the root of opponents' arguments.

when you've dealt with these arguments enough, you realize there are entire schools of thought devoted to spiraling and spiraling in argument with no resolution. Reminds me of the early Christian heresies stemming from Origen and Arius which gained traction because they were endlessly "just starting a conversation" with no intention of resolving the conversation, just arguing endlessly over alternative interpretations.

 

[Zefah]

Don't really care about the king, but this has to be one of the coolest moments of the year if not the decade.

 

[DonDonDonPata]

 

[Zefah]

This guy is (was?) and actual psycopath, but it's a pretty powerful testimony and I thoroughly agree with a lot of his points, so figured I'd share. Pretty impressive single-take video, as well.

 

[DonDonDonPata]

Not strictly a christian video, but does a good job of summarizing the meaningless culture we are living through, a culture CG Jung predicted as the consequence of abandoning spiritual meaning.



My contention from a christian perspective is that Jesus is not simply a "religious idea" or a "mode of deep thought" or a "religious outlook on life". The gospel of Jesus is founded upon his real appearance in the world as a man, the fusion of 'Logos' and 'Mythos' per the author's description

 

[Mickmrly]

Not strictly a christian video, but does a good job of summarizing the meaningless culture we are living through, a culture CG Jung predicted as the consequence of abandoning spiritual meaning.



My contention from a christian perspective is that Jesus is not simply a "religious idea" or a "mode of deep thought" or a "religious outlook on life". The gospel of Jesus is founded upon his real appearance in the world as a man, the fusion of 'Logos' and 'Mythos' per the author's description

I think that it isn't a coincidence that the more atheistic "liberal" Americans, in a survey that was in another thread some time ago, were shown as having the highest incidences of mental illness.
There are many ups and downs in life. If you don't have a spiritual foundation to fall back on you will have an even harder time coping with the downs and disappointments.
Having gone through quite enough hard times myself, I find the promise of a heavenly future in God's kingdom a positive motivator to not lash out at the world or completely lose hope.

 

[DonDonDonPata]

no one is sin free, but seeing videos like this remind me of how admirable the christian saints are. They practiced what they preached. They pursued virtue and improved their own moral character through action not only words. They often endured extreme conditions in order to live out their beliefs.

meanwhile the "fathers" of many secular ideologies are garbage humans. Makes you think...

 

[DonDonDonPata]

 

[Mickmrly]

That was a great video, I think it was hilarious how triggered the alpha guy got when the woman suggested committing to one woman. I don't think there are 60 different ways that she could say he should commit to one woman .

The core message of the video was on point as well. Self responsibility is a great way to try and resist the current world of hedonism. I do identify with the trying to numb out the stress of modern society though. The dire state of the modern western world is not very pleasant to live through.

 

[DonDonDonPata]

That was a great video, I think it was hilarious how triggered the alpha guy got when the woman suggested committing to one woman. I don't think there are 60 different ways that she could say he should commit to one woman .

The core message of the video was on point as well. Self responsibility is a great way to try and resist the current world of hedonism. I do identify with the trying to numb out the stress of modern society though. The dire state of the modern western world is not very pleasant to live through.

I try to spend more time and attention each day on humility and obedience to Jesus, picking up the daily cross, studying scripture and the lives of the saints, praying, and not worrying about what I will eat or drink or wear tomorrow. This is too difficult for me to do all day, I have to practice and faithfully do it each day to improve. To the video's point, building up a family is a difficult task which seems to be too difficult for all these self-styled Alpha Men.

It is easy to see all the wrong out there and to be eager/anxious to find a valid christian counterpoint. I find a lot of counterpoints in the christian books I'm reading. We are supposed to be ready to give an account of the christian faith within us. Maintaining a christian marriage + family seems to be one of the best counterpoints to modern society, preaching without a word spoken.

However, the gospel doesn't consist of winning arguments but winning souls. We have to labor for our own soul as well as those around us, and this isn't done simply by winning in a debate or electing the correct political officials. We must submit ourselves and follow God's guidance on how to be a light and a fruit-bearing tree to those around us. Whenever I see these counterpoint/ Versus arguments, I have to first reflect and acknowledge how I'm guilty of it.

 

[Franky Family]

John 16:23 I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.

 

[Franky Family]

I prayed for a miracle and God answered it. The Father and Lord Jesus Christ and The Holy Spirit answered and performed a miracle. Others were praying as well for this. Praise the Father. Praise Jesus. Praise the Holy Spirit. They did not take away, but instead had mercy and performed miraculous healing and intervened so that myself and my family did not have to lose. I saw an act of God unfold before my eyes in real time and I am forever grateful. Even with human error ontop of human error, God took the situation into His own hands and mercifully wiped clean a slate of grievous consequences and performed healing only God Himself could have. Words cannot describe His love guys, I am weeping as I type this because His love is truly unconditional and I've witnessed it

 

[DonDonDonPata]

thanks for telling us @Franky Family Praise our Father!

 

[mcz117chief]

I prayed for a miracle and God answered it. The Father and Lord Jesus Christ and The Holy Spirit answered and performed a miracle. Others were praying as well for this. Praise the Father. Praise Jesus. Praise the Holy Spirit. They did not take away, but instead had mercy and performed miraculous healing and intervened so that myself and my family did not have to lose. I saw an act of God unfold before my eyes in real time and I am forever grateful. Even with human error ontop of human error, God took the situation into His own hands and mercifully wiped clean a slate of grievous consequences and performed healing only God Himself could have. Words cannot describe His love guys, I am weeping as I type this because His love is truly unconditional and I've witnessed it

I got teary eyed reading this, I'm really happy for you, my man

 

[Franky Family]

Thanks guys. I'm a fairly tough dude. But also very empathetic when at my absolute best. They are both a blessing that came from my family and life as given to me by the Lord. For the past three days I cannot stop crying when I am alone because I have experienced God, all his angels, and the people around me, family, friends, strangers, and complete strangers work to help to make this miracle possible. Words will never be enough to explain it as it should be told but one day I will attempt to share it with everyone here and in my life the way it ought to be shared. For now, I will become the man I was meant to be and look after others as a protector. I was doing too much breaking down of others and standing idle for too long. So for that, I issue a most sincere apology to all those in my life that I have wronged. I've been harsh, and have said a lot of harsh and even cruel things. I realized almost in full what a life means now thanks to the Lord's guiding hand. And all the damage that I may have cause and definitely have caused is enough. That needs to end now and love will power my life here forward and illuminate mine and others' path if I am blessed

To have my loved one healed in such a powerful way and to know that that loved one is protected by God in all His power, I am forever grateful. We may all be born here, and must die in the corporeal sense, but that does not mean that the Lord does not care. He loves you guys and your circle of family, friends more than you can fathom in trillions of lifetimes spent

 

[Vyse]

Well, I want to use this opportunity to apologize to @Franky Family, @WesternBlood and anyone else I might have offended with some of my posts. I mean, I might tell myself I'm a nice person but then I have moments where I respond badly or shy away from doing good deeds to which I reflect on and feel ashamed of myself.

In all honesty, I need to get my head back in the good book and out of the internet. There are simply too many distractions and too much noise when I'm connected. I had started my journey two-and-a-half years ago but felt like I have been more of a lax disciple if anything, because more often than not I forget to take the time out of each day (at night) to pray and read my Bible.

I'm in danger of losing a lot of the good in my life if I continue to sin and neglect what I should be doing to strengthen my relationship to the Holy Spirit. On the one hand, it scares me to acknowledge I have failed because that reinforces a lot of negative thinking that I wrestle with - "You're worthless. No one really likes you. You'll always fail. You'll always fall. etc." Right now I just want to ask Him for forgiveness.

Anyway, I try to remember: Believe in God and you are never alone. God is love. And I want to live a life of love, not fear.

 

[miona's shoulder monkey]

*removes religion*
*girlfriend becomes a slut*
WHAT THE FUCK DID THEY MEAN BY THIS?

 

[Franky Family]

I know of a dude who named himself after something in that game. Welcome to the Christianity thread, Tidus

 

[mcz117chief]

I'm gonna need a bit of context for that, because despite playing and completing FFX I have no idea what Fushitsusha is talking about.

 

[Bolivar]

"The first sign of true love is that the lover submitteth his own will unto the will of the beloved.

The second is that he forsaketh all other friendship which might be contrary unto his love.

He likewise for saketh father and mother, brother and sister, and all other affection which is contrary unto the will of the beloved.

The third is, that there is nothing hidden in one which is not revealed unto the other; and this (according unto my thinking) is the sum and complement of all the other signs and workings of love.

The fourth and last is, that the lover doth strive to make himself like unto the beloved. If the beloved be poor, he striveth to be poor; if the beloved be reputed vile, then he seeketh to be vile also; if the beloved be in grief, he seeketh to be a sharer of that woe, in order that the condition of one may be like unto that of the other.

[...]

Of a certainty did Jesus Christ, the Eternal Love, possess all these signs. He submitted His will unto man's will, and even unto death was He obedient unto those who slew Him, albeit He could have overthrown them by only raising His hand. Moreover He forsook all friendship, His kindred and His mother and His own flesh and blood for man's sake, leaving them and going to. His death upon the Cross. He did also reveal unto us His secrets, saying, " I have not called you servants," &c. Moreover, He desired to make Himself like unto man, taking upon Himself true humanity and mortality, be coming like unto man in all things, saving only sin."

From the Book of the Divine Consolations of the Blessed Angela de Foligno, one of the most powerful mystical works I've encountered yet.

 

[Franky Family]

And one of the most touching moments was when he told the thief who was to die next to him on the cross, that he would be with Him in paradise

 

[J-Roderton]

Fellas, we serve a mighty god. Really all I have to add this evening.

 

[Bolivar]

 

[Rock And Roll]

Great thread, I've been curiously lurking for awhile now. I need some help/advice, apologies in advance for the wall of text. I'll try to keep this as short as possible.

I think I've always believed in a higher power and God, except for during my teenage angsty years that most of us seem to go through. But even during those times, I don't think I ever really ruled out the possibility, as I have seen the odd sign or two from above that could not be mere coincidence. By the time I was out of high school and in University, I dropped the atheist routine and started routinely mocking vocal atheists. I guess I've always been a contrarian in some regards, and working in the arts/entertainment, there's a lot of obnoxious atheists and Godless people in general. Over the years I started to warm up more and more to religion and God. I have a sort of hippie George Harrison approach to religion. I think they are all wonderful and as long as no one is hurting someone else, I don't believe anyone has a right to judge people for their spiritual beliefs.

With how crazy and evil the world has gotten over the past few years, I definitely have noticed an stronger urge for spirituality within myself, but I really don't know what to do as there are a couple of road blocks.

1) I'm half Jewish. My mom's side is Catholic and my dad's side is Jewish. I know this technically doesn't make me Jewish, but I still went to Hanukkah/Passover at my Bubby & Zayda's house. It is a part of my blood and I hold both sides of my family in high regard. This is the biggest obstacle. I have always told myself the reason I don't seriously worship is due to not wanting to choose one side over the other, and I don't think I am making this reason up as an excuse not to take something up. To keep both sides of grandparents happy, my parents never forced me or my siblings into anything overly religious. It was a neutral approach and I think it was probably for the best.

2) Sinning. I know it's inevitable and we all sin, but here's where my work ethic mentality comes in. I don't believe in saying you'll do something if you won't commit to it. There's no point and lying/letting others down is not something I do. I don't know if I could look myself in the mirror and say "I want to obey God" when I know full well I'm still going to drink/occasionally get high/gamble/lay down with ladies out of wedlock/other things. I guess it's just a maturity thing and perhaps I'm not ready for that step yet, but to be honest I don't know if I'll ever be. I wouldn't want to lie to God about saying I would answer his call then turn around and go to the casino during a bender.

I'm feeling the urge like I have to do something but I have no idea on what to do or how to do it. I've asked for signs and I have gotten them, but I don't know which side they come from. My approach in life has always been to try to be kind to other people and treat others with respect. I used to think that the masses need religion because most people do not have this mentality, and they need something to guide them. But my stance evolved into thinking it's kind of egocentric of me to think others need religion and I don't. I'm no different from anyone else. I am not the center of the world and while holding myself to my own personal standards has been great, I feel I need to start holding myself to God's standards.

Apologies from the disjointed rambling. It's just so incredibly hard to put together coherent thoughts with a topic like this.

 

[Franky Family]

@Rock And Roll

I would urge anyone to read the Bible, even if only a little bit each week. Even reading it completely out of order and in tiny sections that are out of order can be extremely powerful in my experiences

For my background, I did not have anyone in my life who taught me about religion or the Lord. Sometimes my uncle or my mom would say something about God, people like Moses or Adam and Eve but it was never anything that stuck. Something unprecedented happened to me before I graduated high school, and there was no other way I was going to be able to overcome it; unless God stepped in and guided me, strengthened me, taught me and uplifted me throughout. I've never been to Church. I've only relied on God and God alone to reach me and that is largely through the teachings of the Bible and the lessons Jesus taught me

From the front of my old copy of the New Testament:

 

[Rock And Roll]

@Franky Family

I actually did read the Bible last year in its entirety. I won't lie, I tuned out in certain sections. Other sections really resonated with me. I really dig Proverbs; it's a wealth of solid advice.

 

[DonDonDonPata]

Great thread, I've been curiously lurking for awhile now. I need some help/advice, apologies in advance for the wall of text. I'll try to keep this as short as possible.

I think I've always believed in a higher power and God, except for during my teenage angsty years that most of us seem to go through. But even during those times, I don't think I ever really ruled out the possibility, as I have seen the odd sign or two from above that could not be mere coincidence. By the time I was out of high school and in University, I dropped the atheist routine and started routinely mocking vocal atheists. I guess I've always been a contrarian in some regards, and working in the arts/entertainment, there's a lot of obnoxious atheists and Godless people in general. Over the years I started to warm up more and more to religion and God. I have a sort of hippie George Harrison approach to religion. I think they are all wonderful and as long as no one is hurting someone else, I don't believe anyone has a right to judge people for their spiritual beliefs.

With how crazy and evil the world has gotten over the past few years, I definitely have noticed an stronger urge for spirituality within myself, but I really don't know what to do as there are a couple of road blocks.

1) I'm half Jewish. My mom's side is Catholic and my dad's side is Jewish. I know this technically doesn't make me Jewish, but I still went to Hanukkah/Passover at my Bubby & Zayda's house. It is a part of my blood and I hold both sides of my family in high regard. This is the biggest obstacle. I have always told myself the reason I don't seriously worship is due to not wanting to choose one side over the other, and I don't think I am making this reason up as an excuse not to take something up. To keep both sides of grandparents happy, my parents never forced me or my siblings into anything overly religious. It was a neutral approach and I think it was probably for the best.

2) Sinning. I know it's inevitable and we all sin, but here's where my work ethic mentality comes in. I don't believe in saying you'll do something if you won't commit to it. There's no point and lying/letting others down is not something I do. I don't know if I could look myself in the mirror and say "I want to obey God" when I know full well I'm still going to drink/occasionally get high/gamble/lay down with ladies out of wedlock/other things. I guess it's just a maturity thing and perhaps I'm not ready for that step yet, but to be honest I don't know if I'll ever be. I wouldn't want to lie to God about saying I would answer his call then turn around and go to the casino during a bender.

I'm feeling the urge like I have to do something but I have no idea on what to do or how to do it. I've asked for signs and I have gotten them, but I don't know which side they come from. My approach in life has always been to try to be kind to other people and treat others with respect. I used to think that the masses need religion because most people do not have this mentality, and they need something to guide them. But my stance evolved into thinking it's kind of egocentric of me to think others need religion and I don't. I'm no different from anyone else. I am not the center of the world and while holding myself to my own personal standards has been great, I feel I need to start holding myself to God's standards.

Apologies from the disjointed rambling. It's just so incredibly hard to put together coherent thoughts with a topic like this.

Thanks for joining the thread my man!

If you want to make a beginning, forgive others. This can only be done in your heart, it isn't something anyone else would be able to double-check. Pray silently, keep it to yourself, and spend your thoughts forgiving others for the wrongs they've done to you, asking Jesus to teach you forgiveness. Keep your own sins close to yourself like a prod to remind the voice of your pride that you are no better than the people you are forgiving in your heart, that it is only the right thing to do to forgive them just as God forgave you.

Remember when Jesus forgave the worldly woman: "Therefore I tell you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven—for she loved much. But he who is forgiven little, loves little." And he said to her, "Your sins are forgiven."

Jesus was not sent to save the righteous, but the unrighteous. Even when you follow Christ and want to forsake worldly satisfaction, those urges of sin wont go away and you will break your vows to God. Perhaps the temptations even worsen. What I'm saying is, your sins will always nag at you. You won't be able to make a beginning if you are held back by the desire to "clean it all up" before you are allowed to walk on the path Jesus laid out for us all. That work ethic/personal morality is just your sins making excuses, the old nature does not want to be washed clean.

Our sins separate us from God, but the way back to God has already been purchased, all tolls paid, all sacrifices made, by Jesus. He knows we cannot stop sinning, that's why believers must be "saved", not merely offered a "mutual contract" or something. "He knows our frame, he remembers that our bodies are made of dust".

Therefore, do not try to "start holding yourself to God's standard". The beginning is to admit you cannot hold yourself to anything, you've already failed the perfect standard. Attempts to kinda-sorta hold certain pieces of the law is no consolation and it was the downfall of the ancient Jews and the Mosaic practice in Israel. Instead of trying to uphold the law, submit to the Shepherd and be willing to be taught. Instead of trying to clean your own sins to approach some level of "acceptability", give them over to the one who can actually clean them, Jesus. Your obedience and humility are what qualify you.

"The Lord chastens the one whom He loves, even as a father chastens the son in whom He delights."
"The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit. A broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise"

 

[Bolivar]

Great thread, I've been curiously lurking for awhile now. I need some help/advice, apologies in advance for the wall of text. I'll try to keep this as short as possible.

I think I've always believed in a higher power and God, except for during my teenage angsty years that most of us seem to go through. But even during those times, I don't think I ever really ruled out the possibility, as I have seen the odd sign or two from above that could not be mere coincidence. By the time I was out of high school and in University, I dropped the atheist routine and started routinely mocking vocal atheists. I guess I've always been a contrarian in some regards, and working in the arts/entertainment, there's a lot of obnoxious atheists and Godless people in general. Over the years I started to warm up more and more to religion and God. I have a sort of hippie George Harrison approach to religion. I think they are all wonderful and as long as no one is hurting someone else, I don't believe anyone has a right to judge people for their spiritual beliefs.

With how crazy and evil the world has gotten over the past few years, I definitely have noticed an stronger urge for spirituality within myself, but I really don't know what to do as there are a couple of road blocks.

1) I'm half Jewish. My mom's side is Catholic and my dad's side is Jewish. I know this technically doesn't make me Jewish, but I still went to Hanukkah/Passover at my Bubby & Zayda's house. It is a part of my blood and I hold both sides of my family in high regard. This is the biggest obstacle. I have always told myself the reason I don't seriously worship is due to not wanting to choose one side over the other, and I don't think I am making this reason up as an excuse not to take something up. To keep both sides of grandparents happy, my parents never forced me or my siblings into anything overly religious. It was a neutral approach and I think it was probably for the best.

Catholicism is the best of both worlds. We still have 1) the anointed king of the tribe of Judah and the line of David, the Christ; 2) a priesthood set aside to offer a temple sacrifice for communion with God and the expiation of sins; 3) a living magisterium, not merely to condemn errors, but to more importantly help us understand how divine revelation relates to our world today and to cultivate a healthy theology.

I would recommend checking out a parish near you and if their liturgy doesn't speak to you, try checking out the Traditional Latin Mass or the Eastern Catholic rites (the largest is the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church).

2) Sinning. I know it's inevitable and we all sin, but here's where my work ethic mentality comes in. I don't believe in saying you'll do something if you won't commit to it. There's no point and lying/letting others down is not something I do. I don't know if I could look myself in the mirror and say "I want to obey God" when I know full well I'm still going to drink/occasionally get high/gamble/lay down with ladies out of wedlock/other things. I guess it's just a maturity thing and perhaps I'm not ready for that step yet, but to be honest I don't know if I'll ever be. I wouldn't want to lie to God about saying I would answer his call then turn around and go to the casino during a bender.

You're not alone. Saint Peter promised Christ he would die for him, only to bail when things got tough (along with the rest of the Apostles save John). Moses was as close to God as almost anyone could possibly be, and he still had a moment of failure and was excluded from the Holy Land. David and Solomon, with their beautiful psalms and proverbs to God made horrific mistakes and Israel divided into separate kingdoms after a single generation. Josiah was one of Judah's greatest kings but he ultimately died in disgrace. The prayers of the great mystics are filled with regret for not keeping past promises and asking for the help necessary so that the ones we make right now won't be in vain.

You're also not being tepid here - the resolution to stop sinning is a massive step, in part because our culture, for what can appear to be very sensible and convincing reasons, has normalized impurity and stigmatized piety. But that extreme step, to leave your old life behind and try it God's way, is precisely the conversion Christ and his disciples spoke about, to repent and believe in the Gospel (Mk 1:14), to put on the new man (Eph 4:24), to bear the wounds of Christ in our flesh (Gal 6:17), and fill up what is lacking in the sufferings of his mystical body (Col 1:24). The spiritual life ends with the total obliteration of our own self will and self love, attacking whatever task is in front of us at a high level because it's all being offered to and assisted by God; gratefully accepting challenges along the way (as impossible as that sounds to us now), our very lives made into a single prayer.

But it's a long journey marked with failures to get there, hence why Paul refers to it as a race to be run with perseverance (Heb 12:1, 2 Tim 4:7). Luckily, we have scripture to teach us (2 Tim 3:16), the prayers of the Saints for reinforcements (Rev 8:4), and the Queen of Heaven given to us by our Lord himself as our mother and advocate (Jn 19:27). God is always giving everyone the grace to pray and thereby obtain all of the spiritual aid we need to overcome our challenges (Jn 16:23, Lk 1:37). We constantly advance in sanctification, like a grasshopper shedding its husk and emerging as something fresh and resilient.

I'm feeling the urge like I have to do something but I have no idea on what to do or how to do it. I've asked for signs and I have gotten them, but I don't know which side they come from. My approach in life has always been to try to be kind to other people and treat others with respect. I used to think that the masses need religion because most people do not have this mentality, and they need something to guide them. But my stance evolved into thinking it's kind of egocentric of me to think others need religion and I don't. I'm no different from anyone else. I am not the center of the world and while holding myself to my own personal standards has been great, I feel I need to start holding myself to God's standards.

Apologies from the disjointed rambling. It's just so incredibly hard to put together coherent thoughts with a topic like this.

That's not rambling at all - what you're describing here sounds a lot like humility, and it's the first important step. The taller we want our spiritual edifice to rise, the deeper the foundation of humility has to go, but these sentiments are certainly helping you to break ground.

 

[Vyse]

I am half-Jewish as well on my dad's side, @Rock And Roll, though I only have a couple faraway memories associated with it when I was very little, lighting the menorah, eating the weird bread. My grandfather passed away when I was 25 and often times when I think about God, I will think of him and wonder what it will be like to see him again in Heaven. This might sound a little weird but for me I like to associate the image of God with that of my grandfather - his warm smile, his patience when I would speak. The feeling of familial love, I guess. Or when you're around good friends, people you would consider like brothers and sisters, which when you think about it we are all children of God and we have a duty to lift each other up.

But I am a very meek person in real-life. Exodus 4:11-12, especially when God says to Moses, "I will help you as you speak", is a quote that really sticks with me because someone once shared it with me years ago. They could see I was afraid but that was because I didn't believe in God and the Gospel back then. Now I know He is risen. I know there is hope and I know we can grow our relationship and faith in Jesus Christ just as long as we never give up in Him and his teachings.

 

[Bolivar]

World Youth Day and Converting Everyone to Christ - Word on Fire

At World Youth Day in Lisbon, I would like to assure Bishop Aguiar that every single one of my presentations will be designed to evangelize.

www.wordonfire.org

Behind so much of the language of tolerance, acceptance, and non-judgmentalism in regard to religion is the profound conviction that religious truth is unavailable to us and that it finally doesn't matter what one believes as long as one subscribes to certain ethical principles. Provided one is a decent person, who cares if he or she is a devout Christian, Buddhist, Jew, or Muslim—or nonbeliever? And if that is the case, then why wouldn't we see the variety of religions as a positive, one more expression of the diversity that so beguiles the contemporary culture? And given this epistemological indifferentism, wouldn't any attempt at "conversion" be nothing more than arrogant aggression?

As I have been arguing for years, and pace the current cultural consensus, the Catholic Church places an enormous emphasis on doctrinal correctness. It most assuredly thinks that religious truth is available to us and that having it (or not having it) matters immensely. It does not hold that "being a nice person" is somehow sufficient, either intellectually or morally; otherwise, it would never have spent centuries hammering out its creedal statements with technical precision. And it most certainly does maintain that evangelization is its central, pivotal, most defining work. St. Paul himself said, "Woe to me if I do not evangelize" (1 Cor. 9:16); and Pope St. Paul VI declared that the Church is nothing but a mission to spread the Gospel. Neither the first-century St. Paul nor the twentieth-century St. Paul thought for a moment that evangelizing is tantamount to imperialism or that religious "diversity" is somehow an end in itself. Rather, both wanted the whole world to be brought under the Lordship of Jesus Christ. This is precisely why every institution, every activity, every program of the Church is dedicated, finally, to announcing Jesus. Some years ago, when I was an auxiliary bishop in California, I was in dialogue with the board members of a Catholic high school. When I commented that the purpose of the school was, ultimately, evangelization, many of them balked and said, "If we emphasize that, we'll alienate most of our students and their parents." My response was, "Well, then you should close the school. Who needs one more secular STEM academy?" Needless to say, I was never invited back to address that board! But I didn't care. When any Catholic institution, ministry, or outreach forgets its evangelical purpose, it has lost its soul.

 

[Mickmrly]

@Bolivar What do you think should be the standard for evangelisation? I know that the Catholic Church has the initiation classes to introduce adults into the faith, sacraments, sunday school and initiation for children, as well as the open mass itself, catholic schooling, charity organisations and missionary programs. Other denominations would have similar things. Wouldn't evangelisation be done by now, especially in an internet connected age? I feel that most people who would want to be converted have mainly converted by now and that the biggest group to try and evangelise would be those in countries dominated by another religion. Due to the influence of the other religion, I think any attempt at conversion would be a slow and steady affair performed mainly by missionaries, rather than other sections of Christian communities and institutions.

 

[Bolivar]

@Bolivar What do you think should be the standard for evangelisation? I know that the Catholic Church has the initiation classes to introduce adults into the faith, sacraments, sunday school and initiation for children, as well as the open mass itself, catholic schooling, charity organisations and missionary programs. Other denominations would have similar things. Wouldn't evangelisation be done by now, especially in an internet connected age? I feel that most people who would want to be converted have mainly converted by now and that the biggest group to try and evangelise would be those in countries dominated by another religion. Due to the influence of the other religion, I think any attempt at conversion would be a slow and steady affair performed mainly by missionaries, rather than other sections of Christian communities and institutions.

I'm not an expert, but as you point out, it's one of the biggest questions for the institutional faith today in an age of mass global communications. There's a couple themes to your post that I'll try to address.

1) As far as standards, I think the kinds of initiation classes you listed should be expanded to a regular weekly catechetical instruction, whether there's an incoming "class" of catechumens getting ready for baptism/first communion or not. There's a hesitancy to offer regular services for fear no one will come (even Confession!), but what some priests have found is the more you offer stuff like this, the more people come. My urban parish used to have this kind of regular instruction and information for non-Catholics, and this was in the mid-century period when, in the span of only a few decades, the Catholic Church had organically become arguably the most influential institution in American public life.

I actually think this is crucially needed not only for those interested in learning about or potentially joining the faith, but also for confirmed Catholics as well. We are one of the most poorly catechized generations of believers there has ever been. The amount of things we don't know, take for granted, or only find out about later on the internet is staggering. The U.S. Bishops are currently undertaking a "Eucharistic Revival," in large part because none of us know the basic concepts about what is supposed to be the zenith of our worship. St. Paul warned us in 1 Corinthians 11 what happens if we do not take it seriously for what it actually is.

2) As you mentioned, there is indeed still work to do in non-Christian nations, especially eastern and southeastern Asia. Africa is already a very fruitful field for missionary activity. It is indeed slow and steady, and we can see that with the history of Europe, where some of the first Churches established by the Apostles were in Italy, Spain, and France, but certain Scandinavian countries did not become officially Christian until the Middle Ages.

3) Even with the good news having been proclaimed in the West, there is still something more to do. There is a mystical connection between the great commission to evangelize together with the dominion of Christ's kingship. Matthew 28:18-20:

And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.​

​

It's not enough to only interiorly assent to an ideal, we are called to actually do something, to follow the new way of living set forth in the Sermon on the Mount, at the Last Supper, and in the letters of the Apostles.

Historically, we have entered into an era like the Arian crisis, where entire Christian nations were living in the darkness of self-destructive errors, some of them even for hundreds of years. America has never been a confessional state professing an orthodox rite of Christianity, but instead enshrines within its founding documents a very specific religious error, part of which Bishop Barron alluded to in that essay - the idea that religious truth is inherently unknowable, that the truth of a faith lies only in the subjective experience of the believer. That is not the Bible; God is inscrutable and yet he has revealed himself to us, most fully through his Son.

There is work for us to do here in the West. The Great Commission was given not to the multitude of Christ's followers, but to the Apostles, so it's the job of their successors, the hierarchy, to publicly profess the truth and to teach it. But for us, the laity, it means consecrating (setting aside) our homes to Christ's kingship, and then doing the same within our sphere of the workplace. Our social and political activity should likewise be geared to this end, until the point at which our communities and nation, like the Roman Empire, have organically and inevitably been consecrated to Christ.

That being said, I will not discount that this could also be the end, not because I have any proof of it or anything, but since our Lord commanded us to wait and watch as if every day could be (Mt 25:13).

 

[DonDonDonPata]

I finished the Apostolic Fathers (Holmes) and Sayings of the Desert Fathers read back and forth until both were done. This was my second time through both and it was much more rewarding this time:

'Apostolic Fathers' is a collection of the earliest Christian writings (aside from the gospels and epistles in the canon) that were circulated and used by various churches, ranging from the first century to the late 2nd century AD. This is by no means required reading, but I found it very comforting and edifying to read the same unbroken, pure gospel of Christ we still have today from these additional christian brothers. That same feeling is generally what I get when reading christian writings from the first few centuries.... they are not in any way confused or poorly constructed or contradicting, and their writings are not mysterious or appreciably different from the gospel still preached today.

The best ones worth reading imo

1st Epistle of Clement - essentially '3rd Corinthians', it is another letter to that church and offers superb insight into early church structure, discipline, and emerging culture
Epistle to Diognetus - beautiful letter that includes an explanation of "christians as the soul of the world" (in Ch. 6) which I loved
Shepherd of Hermas - the biggest struggle for me. Strange book but full of interesting early church thoughts on the nature of salvation and the structure of Christ's church
Epistle of Barnabas - another encouraging letter

'Desert Fathers' collects the sayings of numerous christians from the coptic church in Egypt, men and women who forged the Western concept of monasticism and individual piety through suffering. Last time I read it was pre-COVID. Reading it now with the various events of the worlds has been a lot more profitable. God pointed out a lot more things for me to let go and to improve upon during this read, especially in regards to humility and holding the tongue.

 

[Mickmrly]

I actually think this is crucially needed not only for those interested in learning about or potentially joining the faith, but also for confirmed Catholics as well. We are one of the most poorly catechized generations of believers there has ever been. The amount of things we don't know, take for granted, or only find out about later on the internet is staggering. The U.S. Bishops are currently undertaking a "Eucharistic Revival," in large part because none of us know the basic concepts about what is supposed to be the zenith of our worship. St. Paul warned us in 1 Corinthians 11 what happens if we do not take it seriously for what it actually is.

It is true about the amount of things we don't know. In the last year or two I have learned more about my faith and Christianity in general than I had learned previously in my life. I think I just wasn't concentrating enough during the Sunday readings and the gospels to read deeply into the messages that are being told throughout the Bible. I think it is true that in these busy days you need to set aside some time to properly learn about your faith.

In terms of faith education, I also think it would have been far better for my Catholic high school to spending some time in the morning exploring some part of the bible or reading out some of the catechism, rather than waffling on about whatever announcements they thought were important.

3) Even with the good news having been proclaimed in the West, there is still something more to do. There is a mystical connection between the great commission to evangelize together with the dominion of Christ's kingship. Matthew 28:18-20:

And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.
​

It's not enough to only interiorly assent to an ideal, we are called to actually do something, to follow the new way of living set forth in the Sermon on the Mount, at the Last Supper, and in the letters of the Apostles.

Doing something is the complicated bit I find. I have spent some time in the past volunteering at christian op shops to help raise money for the needy, but I haven't really found that many ways to do much more than that. I follow some christian youtube channels and chat with fellow people in the comments sections about various christian topics, as well as chat here about Christian things, but I am still trying to figure out what would be the next steps beyond what I am currently doing. The world is a much more complicated place now than it used to be.

 

[Rock And Roll]

I want to say thank you for all the guidance and kind words, it's very much appreciated. I read all your posts thoroughly and took what was said to heart, @Bolivar thanks for the verses, I read them all.

I tried to pray last night, but just couldn't do it for whatever reason. I don't think I'm a procrastinator and I usually don't do things like that, but I felt like I had a feeling like I wasn't in the right mental space. Today I re-read all your posts and was about to pray when something interesting happened. I heard a knock at my back door. I went to answer the door, it was one of my neighbors from a few homes down. In Winnipeg there's a lot of homes with detached garages and back alleys. I've had a bit of a weed problem this year, I've tried to spray them, hasn't done a whole lot. I tried to use boiling water, also hasn't done much. I was going to wait until Autumn when the weeds started to die to dig them up by the root.

My neighbor (who I hadn't met) said "I noticed you have a bit of a weed problem. Do you need help taking care of it?" He had some industrial spray and offered to help me out. Of course I accepted his offer and thanked him for his help. I couldn't help but think about how I was beginning to ask God for help for forgiveness, healing and other things, when conveniently a complete stranger knocked at my door and helped me get rid of weeds which were becoming a problem. I've asked for signs over the past few months and He has given them to me. I've always believed and have seen signs before, but today I felt something truly special.

Thank you all for helping me get started, I can't describe with words how grateful I am.

 

[Bolivar]

It is true about the amount of things we don't know. In the last year or two I have learned more about my faith and Christianity in general than I had learned previously in my life. I think I just wasn't concentrating enough during the Sunday readings and the gospels to read deeply into the messages that are being told throughout the Bible. I think it is true that in these busy days you need to set aside some time to properly learn about your faith.

In terms of faith education, I also think it would have been far better for my Catholic high school to spending some time in the morning exploring some part of the bible or reading out some of the catechism, rather than waffling on about whatever announcements they thought were important.

Doing something is the complicated bit I find. I have spent some time in the past volunteering at christian op shops to help raise money for the needy, but I haven't really found that many ways to do much more than that. I follow some christian youtube channels and chat with fellow people in the comments sections about various christian topics, as well as chat here about Christian things, but I am still trying to figure out what would be the next steps beyond what I am currently doing. The world is a much more complicated place now than it used to be.

So those above were the practical considerations attached the kind of evangelization spoken of in the Bible. As far as what we, the secular laity, can do on our own, everything really comes down to the spiritual life. I'll focus on three things the Lord told us we have to do.

1. Luke 10:40-42:

But Martha was busy about much serving. Who stood and said: Lord, hast thou no care that my sister hath left me alone to serve? speak to her therefore, that she help me. And the Lord answering, said to her: Martha, Martha, thou art careful, and art troubled about many things: But one thing is necessary. Mary hath chosen the best part, which shall not be taken away from her.
​

The best part, the one thing necessary, is mysticism - to sit at the feet of the Lord listening to him. A good way to start is spiritual reading, beginning with the all time classics like Thomas à Kempis' Imitation of Christ, St. Francis de Sales' Introduction to the Devout Life, or St. Teresa of Avila's The Interior Castle. More modern works that have come out recently are Introduction to the Spiritual Life by Dr. Brant Pitre, one of the best biblical scholars today, and Catechism of the Spiritual Life by Cardinal Robert Sarah. The key is to find someone who speaks to you and then following up with the spiritual masters they learned from and reference in their work. Once you find who they are, Catholic Way Publishing offers digital e-book collections of the entire works of some of the Saints for only $1-3.

Learn about what mental prayer is and put it into practice. Foster your devotion to the Blessed Sacrament and to the Blessed Virgin. Understand your principal flaws and ask God's help in rooting them out day by day. Have a morning and evening prayer routine and confess on a regular schedule, even if only your "venial," or minor sins, to obtain the graces necessary to overcome our personality flaws.

2. Matthew 16:24: Then Jesus said to his disciples: If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Self-denial is the Christian vocation and is something that will naturally follow from your spiritual reading, since it comes up again and again in the science of the saints. Fasting is obviously a huge part of it, but even smaller acts of self-denial are fruitful, of which we can practice dozens within a single day. There are degrees of poverty, such as doing without excess, but perfection ultimately lies in doing without even the necessities. Christ was born in a cave and died on a cross without clothing - even the image of the cross that we take as our standard bears witness to poverty.

The beatitudes begin with blessing those "poor in spirit." (Mt. 5:3). One of the major themes behind the events in the Bible is that of the believer with a divided heart, the tragedies that ensue when the Israelites do things that have something other than God as their principal aim. This is why the Song of Songs, which is said to be the model for the true lover of God, says: "My sister, my spouse, is a garden enclosed, a garden enclosed, a fountain sealed up." (Song 4:12). Losing our attachment to all else makes room for divine love to well up within us.

The Saints recommend a spiritual director; I'll just say here that going too fast or intense with poverty, spiritual or otherwise, can be dangerous. But you should always be looking to advance.

3. St. Alphonsus said the highest level of Christian perfection is uniformity with God's will. Returning again to Matthew 7:

Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.
​

Even priests who exercise Christ's ministry to supernatural effect may not be saved by doing so, if they forego what it is they are supposed to be doing within God's will. For most of us it's actually very simple to discern what that is - whatever your superior asks you, since St. Paul tells us all authority comes from God (Rom 13:1). So doing the tasks of our job, or getting a job in what we find we like or are good at, and doing it well out of love of God, without distraction or reluctance, is actually what our Lord tells us is required for our salvation.

All of the above depends on prayer, even asking God for the grace to pray as we ought. Continual advancement is possible as long as we do these things by asking God for his help (Jn 16:23, Lk 1:37).

 

[Mickmrly]

So those above were the practical considerations attached the kind of evangelization spoken of in the Bible. As far as what we, the secular laity, can do on our own, everything really comes down to the spiritual life. I'll focus on three things the Lord told us we have to do.

1. Luke 10:40-42:

But Martha was busy about much serving. Who stood and said: Lord, hast thou no care that my sister hath left me alone to serve? speak to her therefore, that she help me. And the Lord answering, said to her: Martha, Martha, thou art careful, and art troubled about many things: But one thing is necessary. Mary hath chosen the best part, which shall not be taken away from her.
​

The best part, the one thing necessary, is mysticism - to sit at the feet of the Lord listening to him. A good way to start is spiritual reading, beginning with the all time classics like Thomas à Kempis' Imitation of Christ, St. Francis de Sales' Introduction to the Devout Life, or St. Teresa of Avila's The Interior Castle. More modern works that have come out recently are Introduction to the Spiritual Life by Dr. Brant Pitre, one of the best biblical scholars today, and Catechism of the Spiritual Life by Cardinal Robert Sarah. The key is to find someone who speaks to you and then following up with the spiritual masters they learned from and reference in their work. Once you find who they are, Catholic Way Publishing offers digital e-book collections of the entire works of some of the Saints for only $1-3.

Learn about what mental prayer is and put it into practice. Foster your devotion to the Blessed Sacrament and to the Blessed Virgin. Understand your principal flaws and ask God's help in rooting them out day by day. Have a morning and evening prayer routine and confess on a regular schedule, even if only your "venial," or minor sins, to obtain the graces necessary to overcome our personality flaws.

2. Matthew 16:24: Then Jesus said to his disciples: If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Self-denial is the Christian vocation and is something that will naturally follow from your spiritual reading, since it comes up again and again in the science of the saints. Fasting is obviously a huge part of it, but even smaller acts of self-denial are fruitful, of which we can practice dozens within a single day. There are degrees of poverty, such as doing without excess, but perfection ultimately lies in doing without even the necessities. Christ was born in a cave and died on a cross without clothing - even the image of the cross that we take as our standard bears witness to poverty.

The beatitudes begin with blessing those "poor in spirit." (Mt. 5:3). One of the major themes behind the events in the Bible is that of the believer with a divided heart, the tragedies that ensue when the Israelites do things that have something other than God as their principal aim. This is why the Song of Songs, which is said to be the model for the true lover of God, says: "My sister, my spouse, is a garden enclosed, a garden enclosed, a fountain sealed up." (Song 4:12). Losing our attachment to all else makes room for divine love to well up within us.

The Saints recommend a spiritual director; I'll just say here that going too fast or intense with poverty, spiritual or otherwise, can be dangerous. But you should always be looking to advance.

3. St. Alphonsus said the highest level of Christian perfection is uniformity with God's will. Returning again to Matthew 7:

Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.
​

Even priests who exercise Christ's ministry to supernatural effect may not be saved by doing so, if they forego what it is they are supposed to be doing within God's will. For most of us it's actually very simple to discern what that is - whatever your superior asks you, since St. Paul tells us all authority comes from God (Rom 13:1). So doing the tasks of our job, or getting a job in what we find we like or are good at, and doing it well out of love of God, without distraction or reluctance, is actually what our Lord tells us is required for our salvation.

All of the above depends on prayer, even asking God for the grace to pray as we ought. Continual advancement is possible as long as we do these things by asking God for his help (Jn 16:23, Lk 1:37).

Thanks for the detailed reply Bolivar. Definitely a lot to think about.