[Hinedorf]

Remember when CDPR made an insanely popular white male actor the star of their game? It presold so well they turned a profit before the game was even released in a totally failed state

Remember when Concord made a bunch of colored and unattractive characters?
Remember when Dustborn made a bunch of colored and unattractive characters?
Remember when DragonAge made a bunch of colored and unattractive characters?

2024 is going to be a footnote in the Video Gaming industry where virtue signaling leads to bankruptcy.

OP should be on here telling us how great Concord is because clearly Race/representation is far more important than good gameplay to them.

 

[GreyHorace]

I actually agree with @El Rey on this. There should be more diversity of CHARACTER DESIGN rather than that of RACE or SEXUALITY that these DEI morons seem to laser focus on. Instead of presenting us gamers with a variety of character options, all these idiots have done is present us with a new standard bland mediocrity. Case in point:

Congrats you champions of diversity of inclusion, you've just created the generic black protagonist to replace the white one.

 

[Saruhashi]

The dumb thing about the conversation around "diversity" is that it really only applies to a small part of the gaming landscape.

Games with character creation don't apply. Sport games don't apply. Racing games don't apply. Fighting games don't apply. Games where the character is not a human or is an object etc don't apply.

So we're kind of talking exclusively about games that have a story/narrative and we're really focusing in on those games where the story is trying to push an agenda.

More diversity is fine there but realistically if a developer wants to spend five years and 250 million dollars to make a AAA game that's led by an unattractive lady who is only attracted to similarly unattractive ladies then it's going to be really tough to push that one on to the public.

The photo with all the white male videogame protagonists lined up in a row might seem like it's making a good point but it's actually looking at the situations backward. These games were all successful and popular and that success validates the design choices that were made. If Solid Snake, Nathan Drake and Commander Shepard were all recast as tattooed and pierced non-binary types using the in game dialogue to whine about patriarchy and misgendering then may I suggest that the franchises led by these characters would not have the same legacy that they do now?

You can't really take a list of very successful videogames from the past and say "look at the crappiness of 2000s gaming, it's all white blokes!"

I think the best argument that could be made in favor of diversity would be taking something like Arkham Knight or Shadow of War and demonstrating that these games didn't sell so well because the main character was a white man so next time round we do "Arkham Legend" or "Shadow of Gondor" and we make that main character a non-binary LGBTQ person and the game sells so much more because we finally got rid of the stale white male protagonist.

There's no real evidence of that being a thing.

It seems more that what we are seeing is game developers using consultancy firms like Sweet Baby and trying to almost hide the content of the game from players until they can get the money.

I'd actually argue that a game like Horizon Zero Dawn and it's sequel would have sold way more if it had a character in line with the "gaming in the 2000s" look and with a bit of the edge that came with those storylines too. Instead it's very very safe and very very careful to keep on message and not do anything to surprise/outrage the modern audience.

 

[Pyrate]

I disagree with what's being said that character designs are insignificant and as long as the story is great, it doesn't matter. A gay or a freak character will stay that way, awful, no matter what story you write them to.

Naughty Dog could bring George RR Martin to write Intergalactic and the game will still suck because of the horrific main character design. On the other hand, I solely downloaded Marvel Rivals because the character look sick as hell, literally just seeing my teammates messing with their abilities in the little pre-match area, and I thought man, these comic book characters never looked this cool before in any game that I know. Now unfortunately the game is multiplayer, so even sick character designs can't save it, but it was close I will say.

 

[Boss Mog]

Can any of you name an upcoming AAA game from a Western dev that stars a predefined male lead as the only character you play? No character creator and no multiple playable characters unless they're all men.

I can't think of too many... Wolverine maybe, but knowing Insomniac they'll probably have to play as Jean Grey or some shit so I doubt it.

 

[GreyHorace]

Naughty Dog could bring George RR Martin to write Intergalactic and the game will still suck because of the horrific main character design.

The game would have interested me if they made their protagonist even the slightest bit attractive, and not the baldie mcgirlboss they're so proud of.

Can any of you name an upcoming AAA game from a Western dev that stars a predefined male lead as the only character you play? No character creator and no multiple playable characters unless they're all men.

I can't think of too many... Wolverine maybe, but knowing Insomniac they'll probably have to play as Jean Grey or some shit so I doubt it.

I'm sorry to say but I think they're going to completely cuck Logan in his own game. They probably won't even allow him to smoke a cigar.

 

[Phunkydiabetic]

Remember when CDPR made an insanely popular white male actor the star of their game? It presold so well they turned a profit before the game was even released in a totally failed state

Remember when Concord made a bunch of colored and unattractive characters?
Remember when Dustborn made a bunch of colored and unattractive characters?
Remember when DragonAge made a bunch of colored and unattractive characters?

2024 is going to be a footnote in the Video Gaming industry where virtue signaling leads to bankruptcy.

OP should be on here telling us how great Concord is because clearly Race/representation is far more important than good gameplay to them.

Are you really trying to attribute the 2077 pre orders to the fact that they featured a white dude and not because there were millions of CDPR fans and simps who were stoked about their next game? It's this sort of basic bitch view on the whole "diversity" issue that gets nowhere, because it's just fluff.

@El Rey put forth a nuanced outlook on the situation that I more or less agree with. The issue isn't black people or gays or women in gaming, it's that in some cases they're seemingly mandated from the top down to be shoehorned in, or in the case of Concord the development team are just lunatics who put dei and diversity and representation ahead of making a game that is fun.

 

[Hinedorf]

Are you really trying to attribute the 2077 pre orders to the fact that they featured a white dude and not because there were millions of CDPR fans and simps who were stoked about their next game? It's this sort of basic bitch view on the whole "diversity" issue that gets nowhere, because it's just fluff.

@El Rey put forth a nuanced outlook on the situation that I more or less agree with. The issue isn't black people or gays or women in gaming, it's that in some cases they're seemingly mandated from the top down to be shoehorned in, or in the case of Concord the development team are just lunatics who put dei and diversity and representation ahead of making a game that is fun.

I 100% am. And I'll spin it like this.....If Heretic Prophet had ended it's presentation bringing Keanu Reeves on stage even as their lead character (Copyig 2077 100%) the game would've been received different in every conceivable way.

The folks who liked it would like it more and the folks who have reservations wouldn't be concerned this looks more like another colored girlboss DEI crowbarring.

You can disagree, you can tell me I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

 

[Pyrate]

Are you really trying to attribute the 2077 pre orders to the fact that they featured a white dude and not because there were millions of CDPR fans and simps who were stoked about their next game? It's this sort of basic bitch view on the whole "diversity" issue that gets nowhere, because it's just fluff.

This is poking the hornet's nest, but "game is good/sells because white male lead" is such a depressing take, to say the least.

 

[Phunkydiabetic]

This is poking the hornet's nest, but "game is good/sells because white male lead" is such a depressing take, to say the least.

Meh, I already poked the nest I guess but it's such a retarded take it's sort of mind boggling. Were there some people who bought the game simply because it featured a white guy? I mean yeah, it's possible there was a small amount of people who base their entertainment purchasing choices on skin color, but acting as if the game performed better than the other slop he mentioned because of the featured characters race is ridiculous.

 

[WesternBlood]

This is poking the hornet's nest, but "game is good/sells because white male lead" is such a depressing take, to say the least.

It used to never matter, until race grifters made it matter. Now, that may be the case going forward, but that is because the true believers are making a big deal about NOT having White Male leads in games. So they created the problem with no solution and the hobby enthusiasts are tired of their nonsense oppression grievances and self-inserts.

 

[GreyHorace]

I 100% am. And I'll spin it like this.....If Heretic Prophet had ended it's presentation bringing Keanu Reeves on stage even as their lead character (Copyig 2077 100%) the game would've been received different in every conceivable way.

The folks who liked it would like it more and the folks who have reservations wouldn't be concerned this looks more like another colored girlboss DEI crowbarring.

You can disagree, you can tell me I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

Or... if you replace the actress with someone more attractive, like say, Sydney Sweeney.

You can bet your ass that horny gamers would be hyped as shit over the game, instead of being repulsed.

 

[Optimus]

I just get tired of all the new indie games featuring girl protagonists because... apparently that's what the market wants, but it's not what I want. I don't want all the cool 2D side-scrolling metroidvanias to have girl main characters.

What this actually tells me is that game creators feel like their game gets reduced visibility if they don't make their game feature a girl protagonist.

 

[Pyrate]

I just get tired of all the new indie games featuring girl protagonists because... apparently that's what the market wants, but it's not what I want. I don't want all the cool 2D side-scrolling metroidvanias to have girl main characters.

What this actually tells me is that game creators feel like their game gets reduced visibility if they don't make their game feature a girl protagonist.

Where are all those 2D Metroidvanias with girl main characters so I can go play them??

 

[Torrent of Pork]

I don't want nothing but straight, white men in videogames, I just want everything to make narrative sense.

Nobody gave two shits about The Expanse, because everything made sense. The Indians, and Texan Martian colonies that were forced to merge both racially, and culturally due to extreme circumstances in the early Martian colonization efforts was excellent storytelling. You see the trials that James, and Naomi go through; their relationship works out naturally.

It would be odd if Ubislop didn't make a black protagonist if the next AC was set in colonial South Africa, which actually sounds kind of interesting.

Y'all know the vast majority of lesbians are still conventionally attractive women, right?

I dunno, I guess I've just given up with all these people. I don't feel bad about layoffs anymore when their shit doesn't sell.

 

[Pyrate]

Nobody gave two shits about The Expanse, because everything made sense. The Indians, and Texan Martian colonies that were forced to merge both racially, and culturally due to extreme circumstances in the early Martian colonization efforts was excellent storytelling. You see the trials that James, and Naomi go through; their relationship works out naturally.

The Expanse had excellent political storytwlling. I guess it also had great diversity, when you put it that way. This is the best way to do diversity; when you don't even realise it.

 

[Mickmrly]

I think diversity in games can be a good thing, but the diverse characters need to actually be likeable and interesting. Not arrogant, personality-less cookie-cutter woke people in a game.

If they want to do bald, brown skinned women in games they should give them interesting personalities like being insanely angry mma fighters who love to tea bag their enemies after defeating them.

Just like movies, the sexual orientation, gender or race of someone will not make a person with a boring/annoying personality more likeable.

There is more than enough diversity in movies and games these days. Now all that has to happen is that diverse characters need to be given a more interesting/ less irritating/ a personality.

 

[Saruhashi]

This is poking the hornet's nest, but "game is good/sells because white male lead" is such a depressing take, to say the least.

It is depressing but a game will either find it's audience or it won't.
If the gender or race of a character is a factor then it is what it is.
The industry maybe needs to find a way to work with that.

Instead many choose to proudly declare "games aren't for white dudes anymore" and act like they are saving the world by having a female protagonist. Or doing whatever the hell that was with Dragon Age Veilguard.

Keanu showing up to promote and appear in Cyberpunk2077 absolutely stoked the hype for that game and I would guess it led to extra sales. Even if it didn't lead directly to extra sales it absolutely launched the word-of-mouth for the game to a different level.

Naughty Dog tease their new project and as soon as that baldy lady showed up on screen many people were immediately rolling their eyes. The current landscape is what it is. These companies have intentionally given themselves a mountain to climb.

 

[Saruhashi]

Meh, I already poked the nest I guess but it's such a retarded take it's sort of mind boggling. Were there some people who bought the game simply because it featured a white guy? I mean yeah, it's possible there was a small amount of people who base their entertainment purchasing choices on skin color, but acting as if the game performed better than the other slop he mentioned because of the featured characters race is ridiculous.

I think you are framing the point being made in a slightly harsher than necessary tone.

It seems evident to me that when certain videogame developers push a non-white or female character in their game they bring it to the audience with a level of self-congratulating smugness. Like they are expecting a Nobel prize for putting a lady as the main character in a Star Wars space pirate game and if people dislike it or decide not to buy the game it's "review-bombing" this and "bigots" that for a few weeks to keep their game relevant.

They could have released Star Wars Outlaws with the guy from Space Marine 2 (Clive Standen) as a standard white bloke outlaw who still has some good in him and that game would have had a FAR easier time finding it's audience. Just an example and obviously just my opinion.

I would say though that this division is more obvious with gender than it is with race.

The inclusion of Idris Elba certainly didn't negatively impact the popularity of the Cyberpunk DLC. Probably it was a big selling point.

It's really about connecting a game to it's audience and in the current climate it feels like a lot of developers think they can alienate the audience but also sell loads of copies of the game.

 

[Pyrate]

It is depressing but a game will either find it's audience or it won't.
If the gender or race of a character is a factor then it is what it is.
The industry maybe needs to find a way to work with that.

Instead many choose to proudly declare "games aren't for white dudes anymore" and act like they are saving the world by having a female protagonist. Or doing whatever the hell that was with Dragon Age Veilguard.

Keanu showing up to promote and appear in Cyberpunk2077 absolutely stoked the hype for that game and I would guess it led to extra sales. Even if it didn't lead directly to extra sales it absolutely launched the word-of-mouth for the game to a different level.

Naughty Dog tease their new project and as soon as that baldy lady showed up on screen many people were immediately rolling their eyes. The current landscape is what it is. These companies have intentionally given themselves a mountain to climb.

You know what? Fuck the hornets nest, this is beyond ridiculous lmao.

No one (that counts) looked at that Cyberpunk promotion and said "holy shit, it's a white guy!", they got excited because it was Keanu Reeves. It would've been the same reaction if it was for example Samuel L. Jackson or Idris Elba, or whatever black actor who's famous with the kids these days. Far Cry 6 probably sold a lot more than it could have just because they brough Giancarlo Esposito in.

Colour/race/gender/whatever never mattered in a big way in games before the recent political climate in the west, because it was mostly just natural and organic game development by honest developers and no activism was involved. Adverserial political injection in games will always suck no matter what it is they're pushing. That doesn't mean every game ever with a character that's not another white dude is political, or that it was quantifiably less received because of that, that's just moronic, sorry.

I would say though that this division is more obvious with gender than it is with race.

I don't think there's a big division in gender either, plenty of female lead games are out there that are well received because they didn't feel they exist just to maliciously "send a message", anything of that sort will feel obnoxious, no matter the message. Of course, made up "genders" don't count here.

 

[regawdless]

You know what? Fuck the hornets nest, this is beyond ridiculous lmao.

No one (that counts) looked at that Cyberpunk promotion and said "holy shit, it's a white guy!", they got excited because it was Keanu Reeves. It would've been the same reaction if it was for example Samuel L. Jackson or Idris Elba, or whatever black actor who's famous with the kids these days. Far Cry 6 probably sold a lot more than it could have just because they brough Giancarlo Esposito in.

Colour/race/gender/whatever never mattered in a big way in games before the recent political climate in the west, because it was mostly just natural and organic game development by honest developers and no activism was involved. Adverserial political injection in games will always suck no matter what it is they're pushing. That doesn't mean every game ever with a character that's not another white dude is political, or that it was quantifiably less received because of that, that's just moronic, sorry.




I don't think there's a big division in gender either, plenty of female lead games are out there that are well received because they didn't feel they exist just to maliciously "send a message", anything of that sort will feel obnoxious, no matter the message. Of course, made up "genders" don't count here.

I think that as long they're attractive and well designed characters, people don't care much, in general. As long as not every hero becomes a strong female of color and people get bored out of their minds, for example.

 

[Amorous Biscuit]

Video game protagonists can be anything.

All I care about is whether the character is consistent and well developed. Mass Effect had literal jellyfish people that were compelling because of their background, society and religious beliefs.

The truth of it is, just make good, well written characters!

Edit:

To expand a bit. Features such as sex and race are not mere checkboxes to hit on the way to scoring some sweet ESG bux. They need to be logically consistent with what's being presented within the game. A lot of the frustration with "modern" diversity is that it feels unnatural and forced for the sake of it. Make a character compelling enough and I am sure Blackrock will have a field day with forced behaviours.

 

[Saruhashi]

You know what? Fuck the hornets nest, this is beyond ridiculous lmao.

No one (that counts) looked at that Cyberpunk promotion and said "holy shit, it's a white guy!", they got excited because it was Keanu Reeves. It would've been the same reaction if it was for example Samuel L. Jackson or Idris Elba, or whatever black actor who's famous with the kids these days. Far Cry 6 probably sold a lot more than it could have just because they brough Giancarlo Esposito in.

Colour/race/gender/whatever never mattered in a big way in games before the recent political climate in the west, because it was mostly just natural and organic game development by honest developers and no activism was involved. Adverserial political injection in games will always suck no matter what it is they're pushing. That doesn't mean every game ever with a character that's not another white dude is political, or that it was quantifiably less received because of that, that's just moronic, sorry.




I don't think there's a big division in gender either, plenty of female lead games are out there that are well received because they didn't feel they exist just to maliciously "send a message", anything of that sort will feel obnoxious, no matter the message. Of course, made up "genders" don't count here.

What's this "hornet's nest" shit?

 

[DonDonDonPata]

What's this "hornet's nest" shit?

The woke right.

 

[Saruhashi]

Video game protagonists can be anything.

All I care about is whether the character is consistent and well developed. Mass Effect had literal jellyfish people that were compelling because of their background, society and religious beliefs.

The truth of it is, just make good, well written characters!

Edit:

To expand a bit. Features such as sex and race are not mere checkboxes to hit on the way to scoring some sweet ESG bux. They need to be logically consistent with what's being presented within the game. A lot of the frustration with "modern" diversity is that it feels unnatural and forced for the sake of it. Make a character compelling enough and I am sure Blackrock will have a field day with forced behaviours.

The nature of the industry seems to be that gamers are now looking at anything with "diversity" with skepticism.

Am I really getting a new Alan Wake game or is it Alan Woke? Is the new Spider-Man game gonna star Peter Parker and a Smokin Hot MJ or am I gonna play as Miles Morales and Diabetic MJ helping little gay boys ask each other to prom?

Is the next immersive fantasy RPG I have to spend 80 bucks on going to get straight down to business with dragons and swords and shit or am I looking at double mastectomy scars and lectures about pronouns.

That's where things are in the gaming industry right now.

This is all on developers as they are the ones bringing games to the market while allowing their "community mangers" to mouth off on social media and while jumping into bed with journalists to trash talk the potential audience.

It's at the point now where a developer coming out with a game led by a masculine straight white bloke or a sexy woman with bouncy tits is almost a form of "virtue signalling" that they don't give a fuck about games journalists and DEI criteria and they are on the side of the gamers.

The game journo fuckers even went after Black Myth Wu Kong because the devs wouldn't bend the knee.

It's almost like this can't be fixed. Nobody knows anything really about Naughty Dog's new game but the reaction is 100% different if that cutscene opens with a rugged looking bloke in the ship maybe pushing off the attention of a hot woman because he needs to take a call.

There's an issue of trust between people making the games and the people buying them. Unfortunately, the gender or race of characters in a game has become the first impression that lets people know what might be going on at the studio.

Confidently send a game trailer out at the game awards with a white male protagonist and you might as well call the game "we don't give a fuck what Resetera and Kotaku thinks".

Hide Sweet Baby involvement in your game, have a lead actor with "I hate white gamers" tweets in her background and lead your game trailer with a black female protagonist and you might as well call the game "keep your money in your wallet for this one".

Thats what the industry is now.