[lock2k]

To sum it up a bit, this friend of mine, we've been friends since 2001. Last year, he got into this thing of being red pill and only talking about that subject. We've always had a lot of openness to tease each other, but recently he started getting offended because I called him red pilled at a party. Then he said he didn't want to hang out anymore if I'm going to keep making fun of him, etc.

But if I were to get into this red pill stuff and agree with his arguments, he'd be laughing; he just can't wrap his head around the fact that I don't agree with these ideas and find this whole red pill ideology idiotic. So, I talked to him and told him "okay, I'll stop making fun of this stuff and the whole "manosphere" thing, etc., but I'd also stop any kind of joking around, any kind of teasing, and only talk about other subjects".

Then he said I didn't have to be so extreme, kind of backpedaling a bit, but I told him that it's all or nothing for me – either I have the freedom to say what I think, or I don't. I think this way I can maintain the friendship with him, but it's tough when someone gets into a fucking cult and only wants people who agree with them. I believe disagreements are healthy for friendships, and the world is becoming too polarized.

Anyway, I just wanted to share this and hear what you guys think. I'm tired of seeing stupid memes talking shit about women all day. This guy has been traumatized by some bitches and he thinks all women suck because of it. I have a wife and a daughter and I love them, I'm not woke in the slightest and I fucking hate that shit, but I also despise the manosphere and the men that are into it.

 

[Ascend]

Do you also despise the women that are in the manosphere?

 

[lock2k]

Do you also despise the women that are in the manosphere?

Yes. They're infantile as fuck. I don't have time for the woke, nor the manosphere. I refuse to follow any of these ideologies.

 

[JORMBO]

The manosphere started as a good thing that was about building up and helping men. Then it got popular and the grifters moved in. Now it is a mix of helping men and a lot of tearing down women. A lot of it sounds like modern day feminism but on the other side. That is probably a reaction to feminism.

The occasional meme about women acting stupid can be funny like any other meme. If your friend is obsessed with it and taking it very seriously that's another thing. There are a lot of truths behind the red pill, but a lot of it also uses cherry picked studies and old data. A lot of their talking points can be dispelled by going to the mall (if you have one of those still) and just looking at all the couples walking around together.

I'd say just be your normal self and if he has a problem with you being honest then that is his problem. If it escalates then there's nothing really you can do and you would not be at fault. A lot of red pill dudes start off really angry when they discover all the online content and eventually snap out of it, so maybe he will lose interest in that thought process over time. Or maybe he will get laid and snap out of it after.

 

[DonDonDonPata]

Better to be a good friend to a man who was traumatized by some bitches and help him through it. Women will be okay even if he hates them. Better to learn about his standpoints and get past the crass memes to see if he has deeper convictions about it (sounds like he does). Good opportunity to shape his future opinions of women.

His interest in the "manosphere" means he wants solutions, he wants to avoid trauma in the future.

I'm also married with a wife and two daughters, as well as growing up with sisters and a mother. It's shrewd and forward thinking to be aware of the details of MGTOW/Manosphere/whatever as a father so that you know what your daughters are facing when they enter the dating world, and what your sons are facing

 

[Ascend]

Let me put it this way.

He probably felt that he could trust you enough to share these things with you. Considering how men are generally shamed and treated by society, especially when they want to stand up for themselves when they think they've been wronged, it wouldn't be something he would want to share with everyone. So to him, it probably felt like a betrayal of some sort when you "announced" to everyone that he's red pill.

And now, you've practically given him an ultimatum of having to choose between something that is clearly important to him and your friendship. He's probably lonely already, which is why he turned to this. He's afraid of becoming more lonely but at the same time can't let go of a movement that he identifies with. It clearly is a cryout for help.

 

[lock2k]

Better to be a good friend to a man who was traumatized by some bitches and help him through it. Women will be okay even if he hates them. Better to learn about his standpoints and get past the crass memes to see if he has deeper convictions about it (sounds like he does). Good opportunity to shape his future opinions of women.

His interest in the "manosphere" means he wants solutions, he wants to avoid trauma in the future.

I'm also married with a wife and two daughters, as well as growing up with sisters and a mother. It's shrewd and forward thinking to be aware of the details of MGTOW/Manosphere/whatever as a father so that you know what your daughters are facing when they enter the dating world, and what your sons are facing

The thing is that he says women need to be submissive and I disagree with that. My daughter is gifted and has special abilities and I would be pissed if the served some man. She deserves to shine on her own and find a partner who understands that. This friend of mine also has some stupid stuff like only men should be able to make barbecue, or fix stuff at home, he thinks he is in the 50's and I just do not think like that. He also bases his life on the bible and was pissed that I told him it was a fictional book.

Let me put it this way.

He probably felt that he could trust you enough to share these things with you. Considering how men are generally shamed and treated by society, especially when they want to stand up for themselves when they think they've been wronged, it wouldn't be something he would want to share with everyone. So to him, it probably felt like a betrayal of some sort when you "announced" to everyone that he's red pill.

And now, you've practically given him an ultimatum of having to choose between something that is clearly important to him and your friendship. He's probably lonely already, which is why he turned to this. He's afraid of becoming more lonely but at the same time can't let go of a movement that he identifies with. It clearly is a cryout for help.

Ok, this is a great reply actually. I may have been a dick to him and I`ll keep this in mind.

The manosphere started as a good thing that was about building up and helping men. Then it got popular and the grifters moved in. Now it is a mix of helping men and a lot of tearing down women. A lot of it sounds like modern day feminism but on the other side. That is probably a reaction to feminism.

The occasional meme about women acting stupid can be funny like any other meme. If your friend is obsessed with it and taking it very seriously that's another thing. There are a lot of truths behind the red pill, but a lot of it also uses cherry picked studies and old data. A lot of their talking points can be dispelled by going to the mall (if you have one of those still) and just looking at all the couples walking around together.

I'd say just be your normal self and if he has a problem with you being honest then that is his problem. If it escalates then there's nothing really you can do and you would not be at fault. A lot of red pill dudes start off really angry when they discover all the online content and eventually snap out of it, so maybe he will lose interest in that thought process over time. Or maybe he will get laid and snap out of it after.

This is also a great response.

 

[DonDonDonPata]

The thing is that he says women need to be submissive and I disagree with that. My daughter is gifted and has special abilities and I would be pissed if the served some man.

okay, this one is easy: get over the specific word "submissive" and try to understand the crucial parts that are important to him. Maybe he just means "not an argumentative bitch who leverages past mistakes to make her man go along", which is a common trait in modern women. Since you're married, you can explain in a realistic way that relationships do have a lot of self sacrifice, as well as one partner trusting the other. Submitting isn't even unique to marriage or to the woman, as humility and carrying burdens is inherent to masculinity. Expand and challenge his understanding of "submissive" instead of throwing it out entirely.

She deserves to shine on her own and find a partner who understands that. This friend of mine also has some stupid stuff like only men should be able to make barbecue, or fix stuff at home, he thinks he is in the 50's and I just do not think like that. He also bases his life on the bible and was pissed that I told him it was a fictional book.

You can be whatever kind of friend you want, but I gotta give some props to your friend and kinda shame you a bit: he brings his religious beliefs to you and brings his dating life ideas to you and you are more interested in shutting him down, yet he tries to explain himself. Sure, he seems like the average "new convert" which we've all been in those shoes. It says more about you that you can't be gracious with him or see how to help him through it.

If you wanna debate him and win arguments, that probably won't be the way forward. You gotta be wise and actually put your experience to the test by helping him through it, listening, challenging. That's what men do for their friends

 

[Ascend]

I understand where you're coming from too. Having the same conversations over and over are not useful and become an annoyance.

The thing about the manosphere is that it understands the pain men go through, and offers a solution that boosts their ego. It is extremely effective in that sense. There comes a point where this boost will give them the idea that they can impose the ideas on everyone else. It doesn't work that way.

Since you're married, it can be a touchy question, and it might end the friendship depending on how things go, but you can ask him if he would want a similar relationship to what you have, and see where things go from there. He probably sees you as successful with women, even though he initially wouldn't admit it to himself.

 

[lock2k]

okay, this one is easy: get over the specific word "submissive" and try to understand the crucial parts that are important to him. Maybe he just means "not an argumentative bitch who leverages past mistakes to make her man go along", which is a common trait in modern women. Since you're married, you can explain in a realistic way that relationships do have a lot of self sacrifice, as well as one partner trusting the other. Submitting isn't even unique to marriage or to the woman, as humility and carrying burdens is inherent to masculinity. Expand and challenge his understanding of "submissive" instead of throwing it out entirely.




You can be whatever kind of friend you want, but I gotta give some props to your friend and kinda shame you a bit: he brings his religious beliefs to you and brings his dating life ideas to you and you are more interested in shutting him down, yet he tries to explain himself. Sure, he seems like the average "new convert" which we've all been in those shoes. It says more about you that you can't be gracious with him or see how to help him through it.

If you wanna debate him and win arguments, that probably won't be the way forward. You gotta be wise and actually put your experience to the test by helping him through it, listening, challenging. That's what men do for their friends

It's just that he was justifying that women should be totally submissive just because a book says so, like, he didn't even have an argument. It's the law and I said I don't abide by these laws because I don't believe in God. He shamed me first, he said it was a mistake to raise my daughter as secular, but that's my choice.

He also calls me mangina almost everyday and says I'm woke just because I think most of the memes are stupid. I'm not woke, I despise woke shit and I'm very vocal about it. I just think his mentality is like a woke mentality with an inverted signal. That's the thing.

I understand where you're coming from too. Having the same conversations over and over are not useful and become an annoyance.

The thing about the manosphere is that it understands the pain men go through, and offers a solution that boosts their ego. It is extremely effective in that sense. There comes a point where this boost will give them the idea that they can impose the ideas on everyone else. It doesn't work that way.

Since you're married, it can be a touchy question, and it might end the friendship depending on how things go, but you can ask him if he would want a similar relationship to what you have, and see where things go from there. He probably sees you as successful with women, even though he initially wouldn't admit it to himself.

I like your way of thinking.

 

[Stilton Disco]

Sounds like he's identified the problem but is struggling with the solution.

I'd advice you take the approach of offering alternative solutions rather than the Andrew Tate like nihilistic, narcissistic cynicism most of the Manosphere types end up in.

The true reality of life for all of human history before the modern era is that men and women were different but equally important. That we're designed with different strengths and weaknesses that compliment one another, and the true path to happiness and a satisfying life is not to try to become a stereotype, but to lean into those male behaviors that come narurally to you, while.lookong for a woman that has the corresponding feminine strengths.

And if you can't find a woman, look to help your local community in other ways. Hell, even entering the church was often used to fill that void in one's life in the past. The past is the best source of solutions to most of.our current problems, basically.

 

[DonDonDonPata]

It's just that he was justifying that women should be totally submissive just because a book says so, like, he didn't even have an argument. It's the law and I said I don't abide by these laws because I don't believe in God. He shamed me first, he said it was a mistake to raise my daughter as secular, but that's my choice.

Then your response seems fair. If he's being abrupt and is challenging you, it's the role of a good friend to challenge him back. I've had acquaintances and friends dip out when I pushed back a bit, so if that's the case here I see where you're coming from.

He also calls me mangina almost everyday and says I'm woke just because I think most of the memes are stupid. I'm not woke, I despise woke shit and I'm very vocal about it. I just think his mentality is like a woke mentality with an inverted signal. That's the thing.

Tell him he's wrong about you. Point out that you're listening and dishing it back, but then ask him to be clearer about the things that truly frustrate him. Tell him to quit acting like a girl who has to get everyone else to agree with her ideas or she'll cry, isn't that what Manosphere teaches? A man can be close friends with men even through strong disagreements. So if he's willing to have that kind of friendship, he has to accept that manosphere Manliness includes getting his shit pushed in and his opinions challenged.

Otherwise, as you already perceive, he is just a "woke mentality with an inverted signal". He's being like the whiny, entitled women he complains about who needs a social-movement to feed her head with Live Laugh Love quips. Manosphere can absolutely devolve into the same braindead quippy pseudo philosophy. Lift Learn Lust (??) lol

I don't wanna derail your thread with my own friend stories, but I've been friends with two men who went legitimately crazy. One moved away and came back a woman. The other detached from society and got arrested for fighting police officers and threatening violence. I've had a number of other friends who slipped into various conspiracies and lifestyle theories and it affected them negatively. I've also helped friends and made new friends with a positive, godly direction in their lives, and I've been able to watch them improve over the years. The sober fact is that men are not given a helping hand in modern society. Generally, we have to be realistic with our judgment of one another, knowing the weight of these burdens affecting all men.

 

[lock2k]

Sounds like he's identified the problem but is struggling with the solution.

I'd advice you take the approach of offering alternative solutions rather than the Andrew Tate like nihilistic, narcissistic cynicism most of the Manosphere types end up in.

The true reality of life for all of human history before the modern era is that men and women were different but equally important. That we're designed with different strengths and weaknesses that compliment one another, and the true path to happiness and a satisfying life is not to try to become a stereotype, but to lean into those natural male behaviors that come.narurally to you, while.lookong for a woman that has the corresponding feminine strengths.

And if you can't find a woman, look to help your local community in other ways. Hell, even entering the church was often used to fill that void in one's life in the past. The past is the best source of solutions to most of.our current problems, basically.

OK, this is good advice!

 

[ExpandKong]

The thing is that he says women need to be submissive and I disagree with that. My daughter is gifted and has special abilities

Is she a fucking x-man

 

[lock2k]

Is she a fucking x-man

Yeah, I had to make a nail cutter out of diamond the other day to cut her adamantium claws.

 

[ExpandKong]

Yeah, I had to make a nail cutter out of diamond the other day to cut her adamantium claws.

Only Antarctic vibranium can cut adamantium you clown I consulted several wikis

 

[Ascend]

Great views from multiple people here. I'll just add this.

His views and actions will definitely annoy you and might even anger you from time to time, if not always. Unfortunately, or fortunately, the most likely way to snap him out of it is if you remain stoic and not let all his tantrums (because that's what they actually are) get to you, and be able to offer down to earth advise, good questions that poke holes in his thinking over time, and gain even more of his trust.

 

[p_banned]

To sum it up a bit, this friend of mine, we've been friends since 2001. Last year, he got into this thing of being red pill and only talking about that subject. We've always had a lot of openness to tease each other, but recently he started getting offended because I called him red pilled at a party. Then he said he didn't want to hang out anymore if I'm going to keep making fun of him, etc.

But if I were to get into this red pill stuff and agree with his arguments, he'd be laughing; he just can't wrap his head around the fact that I don't agree with these ideas and find this whole red pill ideology idiotic. So, I talked to him and told him "okay, I'll stop making fun of this stuff and the whole "manosphere" thing, etc., but I'd also stop any kind of joking around, any kind of teasing, and only talk about other subjects".

Then he said I didn't have to be so extreme, kind of backpedaling a bit, but I told him that it's all or nothing for me – either I have the freedom to say what I think, or I don't. I think this way I can maintain the friendship with him, but it's tough when someone gets into a fucking cult and only wants people who agree with them. I believe disagreements are healthy for friendships, and the world is becoming too polarized.

Anyway, I just wanted to share this and hear what you guys think. I'm tired of seeing stupid memes talking shit about women all day. This guy has been traumatized by some bitches and he thinks all women suck because of it. I have a wife and a daughter and I love them, I'm not woke in the slightest and I fucking hate that shit, but I also despise the manosphere and the men that are into it.

You need to adapt to your audience. You're being polarising while blaming polarisation... Do you get more of the friendship by cutting him out or not?

 

[DonDonDonPata]

@lock2k I thought of something else, maybe it could help. You could suggest some heavier reading to your friend.

I've read all three and I suggest all three for the following reasons:

1. it gets his nose out of memes and social-media toxicity and into a real book. Win win.

2. these are fully in line with his Manosphere ideas, but significantly deeper, more nuanced, and based on data instead of being based on spiteful shitposts and overly long whiny Youtube videos

3. as his friend, you'd be helping him deepen his own beliefs, the beliefs he's bringing to your attention. Straight up, you're helping him as his friend in the exact thing he's interested in, and if he slaps your hand away at least you tried to meet him on his level

EDIT: oh and these were written in 2008, 2000, and 1993. Why is that relevant? Because the ideas picked up in the "manosphere" aren't truly unique or novel, this conversation has been going on for awhile.

 

[lock2k]

You need to adapt to your audience. You're being polarising while blaming polarisation... Do you get more of the friendship by cutting him out or not?

I agree with you and I stopped insulting him and being a dick altogether. I know I can be insufferable sometimes, I acknowledge that. I just wish he had other subjects like he had before.

@lock2k I thought of something else, maybe it could help. You could suggest some heavier reading to your friend.

I've read all three and I suggest all three for the following reasons:

1. it gets his nose out of memes and social-media toxicity and into a real book. Win win.

2. these are fully in line with his Manosphere ideas, but significantly deeper, more nuanced, and based on data instead of being based on spiteful shitposts and overly long whiny Youtube videos

3. as his friend, you'd be helping him deepen his own beliefs, the beliefs he's bringing to your attention. Straight up, you're helping him as his friend in the exact thing he's interested in, and if he slaps your hand away at least you tried to meet him on his level

EDIT: oh and these were written in 2008, 2000, and 1993. Why is that relevant? Because the ideas picked up in the "manosphere" aren't truly unique or novel, this conversation has been going on for awhile.

This is cool and I should probably read them too.

 

[Ascend]

I agree with you and I stopped insulting him and being a dick altogether. I know I can be insufferable sometimes, I acknowledge that. I just wish he had other subjects like he had before.

He'll probably get there once the red pill rage subsides.

 

[Franky Family]

What in the fuck is a 'manosphere'

 

[Ascend]

You should let your friend watch this. Feel free to watch it before or with him. Whatever suits you.

What in the fuck is a 'manosphere'

This video should clarify everything for you.

 

[DonDonDonPata]

What in the fuck is a 'manosphere'

it's a dilation tool shaped like.... well...

 

[Franky Family]

Professor YouTube, you suck cock!

 

[lock2k]

What in the fuck is a 'manosphere'

It's a circle where a lot of guys buttfuck each other.

 

[Ascend]

Professor YouTube, you suck cock!

I'm sure I've sucked on some chicken legs that turned out to be from a cock, but I wouldn't know.

 

[HellforLeather]

I called him red pilled at a party

I didnt read any responses but here is my take

He confided in you with some controversial ideas and you tried to dress him down in public with them. Its a betrayal of trust issue from the sounds of it. Has almost nothing to do with the ideas themselves.

 

[lock2k]

I didnt read any responses but here is my take

He confided in you with some controversial ideas and you tried to dress him down in public with them. Its a betrayal of trust issue from the sounds of it. Has almost nothing to do with the ideas themselves.

All I did was make a pun with the Portuguese word for abseiling (Rappel) and Red Pill because they it was a kids party but adults could also try the abseiling if they wanted to. It was silly af.

 

[Dr. Farnsgoth]

ITT OP gets redpilled. lmao

 

[Hinedorf]

To sum it up a bit, this friend of mine, we've been friends since 2001. Last year, he got into this thing of being red pill and only talking about that subject. We've always had a lot of openness to tease each other, but recently he started getting offended because I called him red pilled at a party. Then he said he didn't want to hang out anymore if I'm going to keep making fun of him, etc.

But if I were to get into this red pill stuff and agree with his arguments, he'd be laughing; he just can't wrap his head around the fact that I don't agree with these ideas and find this whole red pill ideology idiotic. So, I talked to him and told him "okay, I'll stop making fun of this stuff and the whole "manosphere" thing, etc., but I'd also stop any kind of joking around, any kind of teasing, and only talk about other subjects".

Then he said I didn't have to be so extreme, kind of backpedaling a bit, but I told him that it's all or nothing for me – either I have the freedom to say what I think, or I don't. I think this way I can maintain the friendship with him, but it's tough when someone gets into a fucking cult and only wants people who agree with them. I believe disagreements are healthy for friendships, and the world is becoming too polarized.

Anyway, I just wanted to share this and hear what you guys think. I'm tired of seeing stupid memes talking shit about women all day. This guy has been traumatized by some bitches and he thinks all women suck because of it. I have a wife and a daughter and I love them, I'm not woke in the slightest and I fucking hate that shit, but I also despise the manosphere and the men that are into it.

Nothing you can do. Burnt bitches like to blame everybody else and your friend is a burnt bitch in his feels and that's not on you. I've had friends that get burnt over a girl and NEVER CHANGE they become obsessed with that one moment in time and ruin their own lives chasing it again.

As a friend, tell him to man up and move on or don't but you're not his therapist

 

[Optimus]

The thing is that he says women need to be submissive and I disagree with that. My daughter is gifted and has special abilities and I would be pissed if the served some man. She deserves to shine on her own and find a partner who understands that. This friend of mine also has some stupid stuff like only men should be able to make barbecue, or fix stuff at home, he thinks he is in the 50's and I just do not think like that. He also bases his life on the bible and was pissed that I told him it was a fictional book.



Ok, this is a great reply actually. I may have been a dick to him and I`ll keep this in mind.



This is also a great response.

All I hear from this post is, "Other women need to blah blah blah, but not my daughter. No. Daddy's little girl is special, and men need to just get over it and understand that. She is the ruler of the entire universe, after all. Daddy's little girl. Yep. She needs a guy who understands that and will worship any ground her feet touch."

Ooookay. I'm the father of two girls, myself, and I can understand where you are coming from. Problem is, all these women are daddy's special girl or something, and every one of them is special and expects to be handled like it.

It's why we're here in this predicament now.

 

[Stouffers]

What in the fuck is a 'manosphere'

It's like Tetrisphere but with dicks instead of blocks.

 

[bork]

Chadosphere

 

[ExpandKong]

Gotta focus that Kenergy

reach your full poKential

 

[teezzy]

I thought red pill was just being republican

 

[lock2k]

All I hear from this post is, "Other women need to blah blah blah, but not my daughter. No. Daddy's little girl is special, and men need to just get over it and understand that. She is the ruler of the entire universe, after all. Daddy's little girl. Yep. She needs a guy who understands that and will worship any ground her feet touch."

Ooookay. I'm the father of two girls, myself, and I can understand where you are coming from. Problem is, all these women are daddy's special girl or something, and every one of them is special and expects to be handled like it.

It's why we're here in this predicament now.

My friend also has a daughter but all he does is put women down. Soon she will hate him. My daughter is actually special as in lvl 1 Autistic so I have a lot on my plate and I want her to develop her best self and not be dependent on anyone. I don't have time for grown men whining. Funnily enough his daughter is my daughter's best friend so I'm doing everything to not damage my relationship with him because the girls love each other.

 

[lock2k]

I think the reason he got so into this red pill shit is because he had his daughter with this girl that was an affair with while he was dating this other chick that was on her 30s at the time and was desperate to get married and have kids and he denied that to her several times. They were together for like six years but he always had some pride on how guys who wear condoms were losers and all that...

He was already cheating on his ex but when it ended he fucked this other chick (with whom he had an affair) and he trusted her because she said she was on the pill but she wanted some fool to impregnate her cause she just wanted a child. She got pregnant in 2013 and he was ashamed and hid the pregnancy from all of us and only revealed he was going to be a father on the day the child was born. It was a mindfuck for all of us. The main goal of this woman was to have a child but she wanted to engage in a relationship with him and he refused. Even though she lied to him the child came from his balls so it's all on him.

Fast forward to 2019 he got engaged to a girl from the north of the country who only used him for money. I get it, she was a total slut, but the guy is overweight, doesn't look good, has a good amount of money and wanted to date a girl 20 years younger than him... It was bound to happen.

 

[lock2k]

I thought red pill was just being republican

Looking at the history of the term, originally it was. But the meaning ended up changing.

 

[TaySan]

There is a lot of sad and lonely men in the world. The future is going to be rough