Thread: What Is A Woke Woman in Gaming?
women that are only placed in video games to be "inclusive" and "progressive" while also having one of the most insultingly shockingly bad depictions of a woman youve ever seen.
Not historically. Ms Pacman. Yolanda. The ladies of the Mario universe. The Longest Journey's various women. Alyx in Half Life. Plenty of interesting female characters in the FF games over the years. Laura Bow (Colonel's Bequest etc). The female characters in Westwood's Blade Runner. You can absolutely have female characters that aren't woke.
 
Well I mean it does add something, to some people. Her being a lesbian but with no other plot points or "thing" being made out of it could deepen some peoples appriciation or ability to empethise with the character. The balance then of course becomes doing something like that while also not lessening the same effect for others. Most of the time it's better to leave these things as ambigous as possible, allowing as many players as possible to project their own personalities, ideals or beliefs onto the character. Especially for hero/heroinee saves the world type stories, where you spend 99% of the time as a single character going through their story.
I empathised with characters who share none of my immutable characteristics many many times. Lee and Clem from The Walking dead, despite me not being a black man or a little girl, spring to mind immediately. We can relate to characters based on what they do, their personalities, and have a far more rounded appreciation of that character than we will ever have by checking a diversity box.
 
I empathised with characters who share none of my immutable characteristics many many times. Lee and Clem from The Walking dead, despite me not being a black man or a little girl, spring to mind immediately. We can relate to characters based on what they do, their personalities, and have a far more rounded appreciation of that character than we will ever have by checking a diversity box.
I agree, but it'd be foolish to deny that similar experiences don't envoke greater levels of this. For example, I have a mother that abuses perscription pills and is a nightmare to deal with, for that reason since this has started later in my life (after childhood) I empethise more now than I used to with artists such as Eminem when he sings about it, it strikes a cord. Similarely someone who grew up with a non-tradtional sexual orientation likely went through some shit that only someone else with a similar experience would truly appriciate. We are of course human and the ability to empathise with feelings, struggles and experiences that are forign to us is usually what distinguishes a truly good person from the flock, but to say that it has no effect at all if we have common traits with whatever fictional character we follow would be inaccurate.
 
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I'm just gonna cut through the butter and point out that the obsession over videogame storylines is why we're in this spot at all. Gamers of the last 20 years got lazier, less skilled, less interested in skill-based play, and became exactly like the do-nothing journos who run the websites they read. Growing up I played games as a cartoon chef, or some cartoon animal, or some soulless airplane, or whatever. Characterization and "representation" is only important to Hollywood types who want to "express a message" or whatever. Nah, videogames aren't the place for it. We're bickering over fake women in videogames meanwhile we still don't have physics in first person shooters that surpass Half Life 2.
 
I agree, but it'd be foolish to deny that similar experiences don't envoke greater levels of this. For example, I have a mother that abuses perscription pills and is a nightmare to deal with, for that reason since this has started later in my life (after childhood) I empethise more now than I used to with artists such as Eminem when he sings about it, it strikes a cord. Similarely someone who grew up with a non-tradtional sexual orientation likely went through some shit that only someone else with a similar experience would truly appriciate. We are of course human and the ability to empathise with feelings, struggles and experiences that are forign to us is usually what distinguishes a truly good person from the flock, but to say that it has no effect at all if we have common traits with whatever fictional character we follow would be inaccurate.
But that's empathising with experiences, the things that make us who we are. The best stories are universal tales - Romeo and Juliet is a tale of forbidden love, and everyone, gay or straight, can relate to that. The experiences that a gay person has will likely have plenty of analogs with a straight person's experiences, lesbians for instance unsure if the person they fancy is gay or straight matches well with awkward teenage males not being sure if the girl is into him, as confidence isn't always there at that age, and so on.
 
But that's empathising with experiences, the things that make us who we are. The best stories are universal tales - Romeo and Juliet is a tale of forbidden love, and everyone, gay or straight, can relate to that. The experiences that a gay person has will likely have plenty of analogs with a straight person's experiences, lesbians for instance unsure if the person they fancy is gay or straight matches well with awkward teenage males not being sure if the girl is into him, as confidence isn't always there at that age, and so on.
What I was hinting at here was children being thrown out, beaten, disowned, tortured, humiliated, forced to confrom, ect because of their sexuality. I don't know about you, but I never went through anything like that. And the point here isn't that I'm unable to empathise with it because I didn't go through it myself, I am, the point is that I would empathise or perhaps identify it stronger and have a stronger response if I did.

My point in the post above wasn't that we should write characters in games to have these sorts of origins, my point was that it's difficult to justify doing that given the majority of the gaming demographics being what they are. But given that there is a segment of the market that would likely have some benefit from such characters in the game, that those characters being precent isn't nessacarily "woke" in and off themselves. Mere existence of these sexualities or "gender identities" in a narrative isn't woke, wokeism is an ideology that is far more political then that, and for a character to be woke it should project that ideology.
 
If the OP and other participants here don't mind me playing fast and loose with one of the words in the thread title, I'd say this is a fine example:

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Im gonna need to know what games those swamp donkeys are from so i never accidentally buy them!

That's actually just one game!

 
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People have already touched on it, but the truth is that woke isn't a characteristic of a character. Rather, it's a motivation that leads to poorly written characters. There's nothing wrong with any of the characteristics anyone has mentioned ITT, even stereotypical blue hair and face piercings. If the character is written well, then the characteristics/attributes make sense. If it's not written well, then you start to see things stand out. Pandering and well written characters tend to be mutually exclusive. If this thread is anything to go by, what people actually want is well written stories, and lazy pandering/Mary Sues aren't part of that.

What's important to remember is that games need to be taken on their own merits, and seeing elements that have come to be associated with woke games don't mean that's the situation. A black/female/gay/whatever may well mean broad pandering, but judging a book by its cover is where calling this stuff out falls flat.
 
People have already touched on it, but the truth is that woke isn't a characteristic of a character. Rather, it's a motivation that leads to poorly written characters. There's nothing wrong with any of the characteristics anyone has mentioned ITT, even stereotypical blue hair and face piercings. If the character is written well, then the characteristics/attributes make sense. If it's not written well, then you start to see things stand out. Pandering and well written characters tend to be mutually exclusive. If this thread is anything to go by, what people actually want is well written stories, and lazy pandering/Mary Sues aren't part of that.

What's important to remember is that games need to be taken on their own merits, and seeing elements that have come to be associated with woke games don't mean that's the situation. A black/female/gay/whatever may well mean broad pandering, but judging a book by its cover is where calling this stuff out falls flat.
You are right in a lot of senses but normally those physical characteristics are a dead ringer of a woke character, you can't deny that. Not every pierced chick on games will be woke but every woke character will have a nose piercing or blue hair or some stupid hair where half of the head is bald, etcetera.
 
You can absolutely have female characters that aren't woke.
i'm not denying it but with the implementation of that shit into most games it comes off as less of an actual artistic decision and more of some corporate overlord forcing it in for the sake of PR.
 
Having a black woman in your videogame isn't woke on its own. But this is an example of "we need to get that twitter retard demographic"

A1aHXIN.png


Every time some videogame company wants to signal to the world that they're "with it" they cram a black afro chick into the game. And this one has an afro that takes up half of every poster/screenshot.
 
Having a black woman in your videogame isn't woke on its own. But this is an example of "we need to get that twitter retard demographic"

A1aHXIN.png


Every time some videogame company wants to signal to the world that they're "with it" they cram a black afro chick into the game. And this one has an afro that takes up half of every poster/screenshot.
Exactly.

I mean, take a look at Catalina from GTA.

She was a latina black character, wasn't woke, and was one of the most villainous and interesting antagonists that the game ever had. Everyone thought it was an interesting addition.
 
Every time some videogame company wants to signal to the world that they're "with it" they cram a black afro chick into the game. And this one has an afro that takes up half of every poster/screenshot.
actually i think i quite like that, as a matter of fact. Not blatantly ugly, looks a lot like a lot of my relatives and friends i know who are black- quite cute honestly. One criteria i have for a "woke character" in a video game/movie is that they're a blatant fucking asshole. Maybe that's the actual case in the game that this comes from but if they have the gall to make her look actually attractive.... yeah maybe not.
 
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Exactly.

I mean, take a look at Catalina from GTA.

She was a latina black character, wasn't woke, and was one of the most villainous and interesting antagonists that the game ever had. Everyone thought it was an interesting addition.
#1 thing that seperates a woke character from a shitty character is if they're actually written well. Catalina is, so instead of being woke she ends up coming off as a good well written character. Helps that she's before all this woke BS started too.
 
I'm just gonna cut through the butter and point out that the obsession over videogame storylines is why we're in this spot at all. Gamers of the last 20 years got lazier, less skilled, less interested in skill-based play, and became exactly like the do-nothing journos who run the websites they read. Growing up I played games as a cartoon chef, or some cartoon animal, or some soulless airplane, or whatever. Characterization and "representation" is only important to Hollywood types who want to "express a message" or whatever. Nah, videogames aren't the place for it. We're bickering over fake women in videogames meanwhile we still don't have physics in first person shooters that surpass Half Life 2.

All this did was make me sad we will never see HL3, and I don't have a rig to play Alyx on and refuse to look up spoilers.
 
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Can anyone think of a woke female character with big, accentuated, attractive tits? I'm thinking Tomb Raider reboot here. That's a first sign that the game is going woke, it's a subtle one, but the clear message is 'no more sexy fun time for you guys'. Woke is the removal of the fun and sexiness of femininity. Not saying small tits aren't fun, but you know, big tits - they're the ultimate signifier of both maternity and sex appeal. Woke women are basically barren shrews.

Saint's Row reboot is another example. The original games luxuriated in large bouncy tits flinging themselves all over your screen.

Look at the new ones. Look at these unbearable cunts. I will never play this game.

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Can anyone think of a woke female character with big, accentuated, attractive tits? I'm thinking Tomb Raider reboot here. That's a first sign that the game is going woke, it's a subtle one, but the clear message is 'no more sexy fun time for you guys'. Woke is the removal of the fun and sexiness of femininity. Not saying small tits aren't fun, but you know, big tits - they're the ultimate signifier of both maternity and sex appeal. Woke women are basically barren shrews.

Saint's Row reboot is another example. The original games luxuriated in large bouncy tits flinging themselves all over your screen.

Look at the new ones. Look at these unbearable cunts. I will never play this game.

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Girl on the right is probably the most attractive even if her tits arent the biggest
 
Girl on the right is probably the most attractive even if her tits arent the biggest
Yes, this is why I think I have hit on removal of big tits as a key woke woman signifier. None of those characters have blue hair for example, so that's not a reliable woke signal.

Please someone disprove me by posting woke woman with big attractive tits. By this I mean no fatties.
 
The danger hair, the use of lesbians, the black character, are shorthand, signals to their group, by woke writers, and usually serve as an accurate warning just as bright colours on an animal indicate that it's probably poisonous. Sure, it's not a guarantee, but the chances are pretty good.
This is it.
Can anyone think of a woke female character with big, accentuated, attractive tits? I'm thinking Tomb Raider reboot here. That's a first sign that the game is going woke, it's a subtle one, but the clear message is 'no more sexy fun time for you guys'. Woke is the removal of the fun and sexiness of femininity. Not saying small tits aren't fun, but you know, big tits - they're the ultimate signifier of both maternity and sex appeal. Woke women are basically barren shrews.

Saint's Row reboot is another example. The original games luxuriated in large bouncy tits flinging themselves all over your screen.

Look at the new ones. Look at these unbearable cunts. I will never play this game.

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Asexual immigrant twatfest. SO EXCITED.
 
I have hit on removal of big tits as a key woke woman signifier
not really..... it's way too easy to claim a lot of video game women are woke by that logic. You'd have a point if it were remake of an older game where the tits were removed (although that still doesn't necessarily make a woke character) but there are a shitton of iconic flat chested game women.
 
not really..... it's way too easy to claim a lot of video game women are woke by that logic. You'd have a point if it were remake of an older game where the tits were removed (although that still doesn't necessarily make a woke character) but there are a shitton of iconic flat chested game women.
Yes, but that's the point.

I'm saying not all women with small tits are woke, but that all otherwise thin woke women have small tits.

Otherwise thin modifier due to this fatty. If she was normal size she would have small tits.

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Yes, this is why I think I have hit on removal of big tits as a key woke woman signifier. None of those characters have blue hair for example, so that's not a reliable woke signal.

Please someone disprove me by posting woke woman with big attractive tits. By this I mean no fatties.

Hasn't it been decided Chloe from Uncharted is woke now for whatever reason? They changed her face a bit for Lost Legacy but otherwise she's still good looking. But Lost Legacy was still woke for some reason. Dunno, it's hard to follow sometimes.

I do think you have a good point though about the nerfed tits. I was watching Space Jam 2 last summer with a lady friend (we both knew it was going to be shit but wanted to kill time) and she got pretty irritated when Lola showed up all flat chested. She said as a kid when Lola showed up she thought her reveal was dope since she schools Bugs & Co and is hot. Went on a "what's wrong with women being sexy and having big tits" mini rant that would have made some of you proud.
 
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I do think you have a good point though about the nerfed tits. I was watching Space Jam 2 last summer with a lady friend (we both knew it was going to be shit but wanted to kill time) and she got pretty irritated when Lola showed up all flat chested. She said as a kid when Lola showed up she thought her reveal was dope since she schools Bugs & Co and is hot. Went on a "what's wrong with women being sexy and having big tits" mini rant that would have made some of you proud.
Not even furries can have a good time anymore...
 
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You are right in a lot of senses but normally those physical characteristics are a dead ringer of a woke character, you can't deny that. Not every pierced chick on games will be woke but every woke character will have a nose piercing or blue hair or some stupid hair where half of the head is bald, etcetera.
True, bad writing isn't very imaginative and the irony of the people that want to be different and unique is that there's a dress code
 
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I'm just gonna cut through the butter and point out that the obsession over videogame storylines is why we're in this spot at all. Gamers of the last 20 years got lazier, less skilled, less interested in skill-based play, and became exactly like the do-nothing journos who run the websites they read. Growing up I played games as a cartoon chef, or some cartoon animal, or some soulless airplane, or whatever. Characterization and "representation" is only important to Hollywood types who want to "express a message" or whatever. Nah, videogames aren't the place for it. We're bickering over fake women in videogames meanwhile we still don't have physics in first person shooters that surpass Half Life 2.
I would humbly disagree on the importance of woke propaganda in gaming. To me not having a game that's: trying to lecture me and make me conform to woke ideology while sporting ugly ass woke characters is WAY more important than any physics. Even racing games now have woke bullshit in them like GRID Legends or Forza Horizon 5. They will literally create backstories for the drivers so they can virtue signal about having poC, LGBT and disabled drivers. Same goes for FPS games that now must have "operators" with those same kind of useless backstories. Combine that with all of today's shitty monetization and nickel&diming in games (There's literally a "battlepass" in F1 22), and you get the real reasons why gaming is becoming shittier in my opinion.

This is the reason why there's a huge resurgence in Japanese gaming and companies like From Software, Capcom and Bamco are posting record sales. Japanese devs don't put woke bullshit in their games, at least not yet. They focus on story and gameplay even if on the technical/graphical side the games are usually a bit weaker.
 
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To understand what a "woke woman" is when it comes to gaming we need to look at a couple of factors. Important to note before I go on that is that normally speaking the majority of the time having just one of these factors doesn't necessarily make female game character woke, but can certainly be a good indicator.

1. Attractiveness, Feminine Traits, Sex Appeal and "The Male Gaze"

Gaming as a hobby both traditionally and currently is an overwhelmingly male market. This is simply a undisputed but hated reality to the woke ideologues. As a consequence of this it is natural that most female characters in gaming were designed from the perspective of what would appeal to a male audience.

This in turn naturally leads to looking at what traits men find desirable in women in the real world and then recreating idealized or sometimes exaggerated versions of these traits in the character designs. Hence you get the stereotypical scantily clad, curvaceous, attractive, large breasted character oozing sex appeal.

It should be noted that this is not something isolated to gaming, you can see the same traits for example in fantasy novels and their media adaptations, Conan, Red Sonya etc...

You also see these things traditionally in degree in western comics, sci-fi shows, anime and manga and essentially any media that is predominantly consumed by men.

This has been the status quo in gaming to various degrees since its inception, as a natural consequence of mostly being developed by men with the intention of being consumed and therefore appeal to other men.

Then something strange starts to happens in the 2010's: Feminism (a subset of woke ideology) starts to rear its ugly head. The idea in feminism is that overly sexualized female characters in media present an unrealistic beauty/body shape standard in the minds of impressionable men that no "real" woman could possibly live up to.

This is further compounded by believing that these fictional women exist solely to satisfy the sexual fantasies of men, that they are essentially walking talking sex dolls with no agency or purpose than to titilize and tantalize the prepubescent sexual appetites of men. This thinking then leads naturally to viewing such representations of women as offensive to womanhood itself.

To top this off they also believe that these negative depictions of women poison the minds of men to think of all women as simply walking sex objects without their own thoughts or agency, like they are some sort of non-human "other" that exists solely for the sexual gratification of men.

Realistically I would argue that these designs are a consequence of the evolutionary sexual preferences and preferences of feminine attractiveness in men's psyche and that naturally when trying to appeal to an overwhelmingly male market it would make sense to tap into and appeal to these preferences, while the feminists have it backwards and believe that these preferences only exist through a mechanism of social constructionism, almost a "monkey see, monkey do" approach.

In other words the only reason men have these exaggerated preferences is because they consume media that portrays these as normal and desirable in the feminist view. A truly backward approach in my mind that ignores millions of years of evolution.

So now through the lense of feminism we have identified the "problem" with these kinds of designs, and therefore their moral failings. How do we then fix the problem and make the world a better place in the process? In the minds of the woke feminists, we need to counter these designs and create something more "realistic". Then we can push this out into the world and it will change the minds and preferences of men in what they find attractive in women!

So having these "problematic" traits in female characters in media is no longer just an eye roll moment or a chuckle at the silly things men like in fantasy women. Now it is a moral failing to have a character with these traits and we must right the ship and move things in the opposite direction to have a positive impact on the world via purposeful social engineering attempts.

It is important that we understand this mindset and the reasoning behind it if we are to get anywhere in understanding the current shifts in design philosophy in western gaming regarding female character designs.

So suddenly large breasts are bad, female characters must have modest, small or flat chests. Female characters cannot have hour glass figures, large asses, cannot be curvy or overly sexual. Cannot have large lips or dress in revealing clothing.

This is done under the guise of "saving us from ourselves" and "making the world a better place for women!" but deep down psychologically it comes from a place of jealously and resentment. In the sexual marketplace, average or unattractive women will do anything to try to get a leg up on the competition and improve their perceived place in the attractiveness hierarchy so this is one way that attempts to achieve that.

In a more simple way: If we can brainwash men with social engineering propaganda then they will find us more attractive and the genuinely attractive women as less desirable, then we will have increased our chances of finding a better mate.

You can see this most prominently with redesigns of existing or classic female characters from older titles/franchises. The female character is normally "updated for modern sensibilities", which is code for "made less attractive and less sexually appealing to men".

You can see it with Lara Croft, Mortal Kombat women as prime examples but there are likely hundreds of other very obvious ones that other members of the thread can easily point out. You see keeping the characters as is would be "sinful" a moral failing to the utopian ideal for society so they simply must be changed and updated to be more "modern" and less "backwards".

This is a huge sign of a "woke woman" in videogames. We also see this with new character designs for new franchises/IPs or titles. Characters are purposely designed to tick the checkboxes of what is considered acceptable to this ideology and then sent out to the world to attempt to spread their world view on the unclean and unsuspecting masses.

So while having a female character with small breasts for example or who is somewhat less sexualized doesn't automatically make them a woke character design, in fact there are even examples of these throughout gaming that predate the current woke ideology.

One example where it becomes undeniable is when a classic/existing somewhat sexy female character is redesigned in a remaster, re-release or sequel to a long running franchise and has all of their charm, fun and sexyness of their design sucked out of them to be replaced by a woke imposter wearing their rotting corpse. Examples of course include Tomb Raider and Mortal Kombat as mentioned above.

In these cases it is completely self evident that the changes were made to fit the woke world view and for woke reasoning to the point where it becomes essentially impossible for anyone to credibly debate it or argue against it.

For new characters/new IPs it becomes a little more difficult to ascertain as we don't have an existing non woke version of the character to compare and contrast the changes.

A couple of dead giveaways are when a feminine, traditionally beautiful, somewhat sexy model is used as the basis of a character in a game (i.e: They are contracted by the studio to use their likeness and scan their face/body for use in the game) and instead of the character actually looking like the model, the creators in a bid to hit their woke checkboxes mentioned above will purposefully and willfully make the character look less attractive, less sexy, reduce breast or ass size etc.. compared to the real model.

The examples of this are endless but a couple of recent noteworthy titles that do this would Horizon series, Mass Effect Andromeda and The Last of Us 2. In Mass Effect's case the designers, still not happy with how ugly they had made the female lead, released a day one patch to make her face even more unattractive than they already had done (I shit you not). In The Last Of Us 2, the lead character's love interest had her breasts massively reduced in size compared to the real life model that used for the character, who was actually quite busty.

These decisions were not made by chance or mistake, by ineptitude or a lack of talent on the part of the modellers. These decisions instead were made willfully, purposefully to further the woke agenda. That is what makes those characters and it is safe to say other female character's in those titles/series "woke".

Even outside of those cases where we have an obvious contrast between the real life models and the in game rendered character, what we see currently is a trend away from the feminine, attractive, obviously sexy, curvy, busty characters that appeal to men and instead we see a push towards less attractive, less feminine, less curvy, less sexy, less busty character designs. These decisions are again not accidents or incompetence but purposefully made with the sole purpose of pushing the woke agenda.

This is a part of what people mean when they say that almost all of western gaming is infested with woke ideology and why people are being instantly turned off by the current trend of mostly female main characters in modern western gaming and automatically assuming that 9 times out of 10 the character is designed that way purposefully due to woke reasoning.

2. The Trans lobby

In point 1 above I covered the trend away from sexy character designs in general for women in games and the trend to towards less attractive, less sexy and less well endowed designs.

Another facet of the design process that I purposely left out for use here is the "trans issue". There has been a purposeful and guided push away from the feminine when it comes to character designs.

When I say this I'm not necessarily or solely talking about things like breast size but rather a push towards more manly or predominantly male facial/body features in character designs.

What you see are things like thicker, larger, fuller jaw lines, more prominent brows etc.. in terms of facial features while in terms of body shape we have things like taller, heavier women with large muscular physiques, broad shoulders, large backs, wide (normally flat or mostly flat) chests.

This pushes female character design into a more androgynous direction and from a character design perspective tries to blur the line between traditionally masculine and feminine physical traits.

So you might ask: "Why is this happening?". The answer again goes back to woke reasoning and their ideology. In the minds of the social contructionist, forms of media don't simply exist as a form of entertainment and escapism to be consumed, instead in their minds: every piece of media is instead an attempt to shape the minds of those who consume it and as a consequence of that shape society itself, popular perception and social norms.

"Ok..." you might say, but to what end? What is the end goal that they are trying to achieve? The answer is trans acceptance. It is obvious at a glance for most people to tell when someone is either a biological man or a woman almost every time, a big indicator of how we can identify this is based on physical traits, bone structure, musculature, facial features, anatomy etc...

So to make it "easier" for trans women to "pass" as real women the woke designers must blur the lines between what man and a woman are, in terms of their physical traits and appearance. The hope is to shape the minds of the audience sub consciously into accepting trans women as "real women". They do this by trying to muddy up the perception and understanding of what a woman is in the first place.

Examples of this can be seen in combination with point 1 above in the process of making woman characters appear less attractive, you can especially see it where an existing character design is feminine and sexy and then an updated version is released where the character is given more male style physical traits and facial structures to appear less feminine.

We also see the same thing where real life models are scanned into a game and have their features altered to be more masculine compared to their natural look, which results in more androgynous looking characters.

A prime example of this phenomenon is Abby from The Last of Us 2, she is such a clear cut example that not much else needs to be said.



* I have to stop now but I intend to come back to finish this post and add many points, will be a very long post.
 
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Genuine question since there's been a lot of debate over multiple threads/games. How do you define a female character as woke? We have reveals for games which feature a female character and it is automatically labeled as woke with zero context about the game/character. When did female characters automatically become a symbol of wokeness?

If Tomb Raider was created today, would Lara be woke? Or if Street Fighter 2 came out today, is Chun Li a woke character? What about Metroid, you spend the whole game thinking you are a dude only for it to be revealed you've been a lady the whole time. Would that be part of some trans agenda? Help me understand how to differentiate between a good female character and a woke one. Is there a checklist of criteria?

What is a woke woman?

I would say it depends on who the developer is and how the developer decides to push the character.

If you look at Elden Ring as an example there are prominent female characters in both the narrative of the game and the lore of the world. These were openly presented in marketing materials pretty much from the start and nobody ever mentioned anything about "woke".

So it's obviously not just as simple an equation as "woman in the game equals woke".

I think Metroid, Lara Croft and Chun Li would not be considered woke at all even if those games were released now.

If the game, it's publisher, it's developer or any prominent figures that worked in the game are/is overly preachy then I think it can become a bit more obvious that we are seeing a "woke" motivation behind some of the games choices.

Battlefield V would be a pretty good example where the company launches a WW2 game and then puts women front and center in the marketing materials and on top of that has one of the main people on the project preaching about how he wants his daughter to play characters like herself in games. A game set in the second world war is pandering to modern feminists for some reason. That's woke.

I think once this happens a certain number of times there are "red flags" that consumers begin to notice. Certain design tropes, certain approaches to marketing, etc. In the end it's like if I see a game that has some stupid half-shaved head female who is covered up and a but frumpy and she is taking on dudes in hand to hand combat then I am thinking "woke". If I see Zelda as a playable character in Hyrule warriors? Not woke.

The basic premise is flawed here though. "We have reveals for games which feature a female character and it is automatically labeled as woke with zero context about the game/character." This simply isn't true. It's a bit more complex than this and the idea that people are claiming "woke" at the very sight of a female character isn't really true at all.
 
I would consider a woke woman basically a Mary Sue, who is always right, never has trouble with anything and somehow is better than everyone else in everything. I haven't played many recent games with woke females but I can say that in Fire Emblem Three houses, the two main women in the game are not woke. Edelgard and Lady Rhea both can be manipulative and vicious with not every plan of theirs going to plan. They actually have personalities that don't involve them being 100% good at everything all the time.

I think that is usually one of the major flags, when the female character is an obvious Mary Sue.
Though, to be fair, there have been plenty of Mary Sue male protagonists in gaming too.
 
The basic premise is flawed here though. "We have reveals for games which feature a female character and it is automatically labeled as woke with zero context about the game/character." This simply isn't true. It's a bit more complex than this and the idea that people are claiming "woke" at the very sight of a female character isn't really true at all.

Dunno about this, I don't want to call people out because I'm not being judgemental (as I said, I'm guilty of it myself), but browsing through the MS E3 thread you'll see it.
 
Dunno about this, I don't want to call people out because I'm not being judgemental (as I said, I'm guilty of it myself), but browsing through the MS E3 thread you'll see it.

I gave you examples though. Elden Ring. Metroid Dread. I think people generally liked Alien Isolation? Ion Fury was a pretty well received indie game. Those Fire Emblem games are well liked and also Xenoblade games too. All have plenty of female characters but nobody seems to be calling them "woke" at all.

People don't seem to mind games that give a choice on character creation where you would expect people to be annoyed that there's a choice, no?

So it's obviously more complex than "Female character = woke" since there are countless examples that can serve as a contradiction to that.
 
A few things go into the perception of mass opinion, such as confirmation bias. I've read threads, got the impression that it's a group of people having a particular opinion, then re-read the thread to check/count names (always check your workings, boys), then realised it's just one person. That one person can easily be the vocal minority, especially in an environment like a forum. On top of that you get opinions that could and should be disregarded as baseless, like a troll post or a particularly nonsensical post from a bitter, hateful person. I do think it's more likely to see a comment about a "minority" character, because that's where you'll get the overlap of genuine discussion, boys club rhetoric, and whatever else will get you banned at REEEEE.

So I agree, you do get some sort of comment in all sorts of threads wherever you are, but that's where you have to decide which posts are serious and/or worth paying attention to and which aren't.
 
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I gave you examples though. Elden Ring. Metroid Dread. I think people generally liked Alien Isolation? Ion Fury was a pretty well received indie game. Those Fire Emblem games are well liked and also Xenoblade games too. All have plenty of female characters but nobody seems to be calling them "woke" at all.

People don't seem to mind games that give a choice on character creation where you would expect people to be annoyed that there's a choice, no?

So it's obviously more complex than "Female character = woke" since there are countless examples that can serve as a contradiction to that.

Ion Fury's controversy centered around a guy leaking discord messages because he was pissed they made Shelly "woke". I can't seem to find a link on it and I refuse to log back onto GAF to search for it.

Second, we have a whole thread on a GTA rumor about a female lead which displays what I'm talking about. It's strictly a rumor, yet somehow there's no doubt about it, GTA6 will be woke.

That vampire game that led off the MS presser had a black female lead and it's woke, once again with zero context. People say "forced swearing" is a sign but 1) that's every game, swearing is always forced and 2) how do we know it's not paying homage to b movies? People loved HotD Overkill for the excessive swearing paying tribute to b movie campiness, this game's marketing material suggest similar vibes.

I'm not sure what you're getting at with character creation either. I just woke up so I'm probably missing the point.

Again I made the thread because there seems to be some sort of vague, everchanging set of rules when it comes to females in games.
 
Ion Fury's controversy centered around a guy leaking discord messages because he was pissed they made Shelly "woke". I can't seem to find a link on it and I refuse to log back onto GAF to search for it.

Second, we have a whole thread on a GTA rumor about a female lead which displays what I'm talking about. It's strictly a rumor, yet somehow there's no doubt about it, GTA6 will be woke.

That vampire game that led off the MS presser had a black female lead and it's woke, once again with zero context. People say "forced swearing" is a sign but 1) that's every game, swearing is always forced and 2) how do we know it's not paying homage to b movies? People loved HotD Overkill for the excessive swearing paying tribute to b movie campiness, this game's marketing material suggest similar vibes.

I'm not sure what you're getting at with character creation either. I just woke up so I'm probably missing the point.

Again I made the thread because there seems to be some sort of vague, everchanging set of rules when it comes to females in games.
You're missing context. Context matters.

1. Can't say I'm familiar with the Ion Fury situation but I'm not sure I get your point. Is the guy one of the devs or a disgruntled customer? Too little information for that to be in any way useful.
2. The GTA thing - you're missing the context that the founders left and there have been various indications that internal company culture has shifted towards woke, and as a result of that people are concerned that it may be woke. If you look at the thread here on the topic there is discussion of excellent female characters in previous games as examples of how to do it right, so clearly no objection to female characters in general.
3. Vampire game.. oh boy you don't do specifics do you. Is it the Vampire Masquerade thingy? Because that project ended up with a bunch of wokies writing, and kicking out non-wokes. If it's not that you're going to have to let the rest of us know what you're on about. Unfortunately we can't fight the straw men you construct in your head if you don't at least draw us a picture of them.
 
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You're missing context. Context matters.

1. Can't say I'm familiar with the Ion Fury situation but I'm not sure I get your point. Is the guy one of the devs or a disgruntled customer? Too little information for that to be in any way useful.
2. The GTA thing - you're missing the context that the founders left and there have been various indications that internal company culture has shifted towards woke, and as a result of that people are concerned that it may be woke. If you look at the thread here on the topic there is discussion of excellent female characters in previous games as examples of how to do it right, so clearly no objection to female characters in general.
3. Vampire game.. oh boy you don't do specifics do you. Is it the Vampire Masquerade thingy? Because that project ended up with a bunch of wokies writing, and kicking out non-wokes. If it's not that you're going to have to let the rest of us know what you're on about. Unfortunately we can't fight the straw men you construct in your head if you don't at least draw us a picture of them.

1) The person who ignited the controversy claimed to be doing it to troll Era, they claimed they were a disgruntled customer who thought because Shelly wasn't overly sexualized the game was woke. Sophia Narwitz article here. Regardless, you had a situation where one side thought the Devs went woke because they re-designed a character from over 20 years ago and the other side thought they were bigots.

2) Again, a situation where a bunch of variables have went in to decide if the game/character (all based off a rumor) is woke. You also had people in that thread arguing Catalina was proto-woke and unbelievable.

3) Not that one, Redfall was what it was called. Couldn't remember the name and thought there was only one vampire game at E3 this year.