Thread: What does PlayStation need to do in order to get back to the glory days of PS1 and PS2?
Glory day Sony PlayStation.
I remember a mate brought my the PS1. We were amazed by the dinosaur demo. Jumping flash demo and I think he had ridge racer and tekken. It was a great mix of arcade and home consoles.
(Just like the Dreamcast)

What I remember about the PS1 launch days
Sony Invested in exclusives. Allowed Sony devs many different genres and to Go wild with creativity

They talked about Disrupting the games market, and highlighted that in the advertising. They went after long term gamers. (Recent adults) and the teenagers. They made the PS the new cool

PS2 was a good dvd player plus games console. Ps1 we could play cd's. What's the PS5 hook?

Also are the PS4 and 5 are selling well though?

I heard that the ps5 is expensive.
 
Oh, Nintendo absolutely swing back and forth between genius and fucking retarded, but they at least consistently make good games that are successful in their own right, know their audience and maintain a healthy long term business strategy.

Also while the WiiU sold like dogshit, in the same generation they had the 3DS, which outsold the Xbox 360, and the Switch, which is going to be the most successfully console of all time.

The WiiU is like the 360, in that both are outliers in their companies usual performance in the gaming industry, it's just Xbox usual fails, and Nintendo usually succeeds.

The point is that exclusive games don't drive hardware sales all that much. Sony fanboys think they do. To them Xbox failing with their first party seem to be proving the point, but I don't think it's that simple.

Microsoft probably realized that no amount of amazing first parties will help their situation (nobody bought Hi-Fi Rush and nobody is going buy Xbox even there's 10 Hi-Fi Rushes and they aren't on PC), so they started moving beyond hardware. Nintendo abandoned the home console market completely.

Sony is coasting off their past success, but their data shows that most people refuse to move on from PS4 and their AAA budgets and development times are unsustainable, while Microsoft is making moves to cut them off Call of Duty (the real reason people buy these consoles). They panic buy Concord and Bungie, but shoot themselves in the foot in the process. They make baby steps to move beyond hardware too with PC ports, but they are late to this party. If Microsoft is preparing an open store console for next generation, with Steam support, they could be fucked.
 
The point is that exclusive games don't drive hardware sales all that much.

Is there anything out there to back this up? I mean anything credible not some bullshit article with an agenda.

I think there's a bias where people who's actual opinion is "I don't want console exclusives to exist" are trying to act like exclusives don't matter.

I could think of a whole bunch of reasons why console exclusives should, and probably do, work but I'd be interested in seeing how they don't actually drive hardware sales.
 
Is there anything out there to back this up? I mean anything credible not some bullshit article with an agenda.

I think there's a bias where people who's actual opinion is "I don't want console exclusives to exist" are trying to act like exclusives don't matter.

I could think of a whole bunch of reasons why console exclusives should, and probably do, work but I'd be interested in seeing how they don't actually drive hardware sales.

It's 100% cope by ignorant, childish modern PC players, and dumbarse Xbox fanboys, that bears no resemblance to the reality of what consoels sell well and what we have been told is the reason exclusives exist in times gone past.

Even going back to the NES vs Master System, it was Mario and Sonic that were the most obvious reasons to own one system over the other. Platform holders invested in exclusives, be they first, second or third party, to distinguish themselves from the competition.

There are more examples of this pushing otherwise old or lacking hardware over competitors than you can shake a stick at. The first and most infamous would be Tetris on the Gameboy, followed by Pokémon, both of which catapulted an 'outdated at launch' brick to be one of the most successful handhelds of all time.

Even the oft cited lack of first party exclusives on PS1 and PS2 is a complete fabrication.

PS1 launched in with Wipeout, one of the most influential and popular games of it's generation, and a game that laid the groundwork for PlayStation's continued success in Europ to this day.

What's more, the idea you can dismiss the third party exclusives it had as if that doesn't count is obvious cope. The N64 and Saturn did not have MGS, FF, or most Tomb Raiders. Playstation may have got those exclusives by making deals and providing a better environment for third parties, but that still meant it's success was based on exclusives.

Going into recent history with 7th gen, which really laid the groundwork for today, both Playstation and Nintendo's successes here are directly due to exclusives.

The Wii sold to that blue ocean new audience due to Wii Sports. That pack in game was arguably the most important in their history, and once the console was in homes, it was exclusives that kept business going. To argue Mario Kart isn't a game that sells hardware units is retardery of the highest order.

The PS3 too turned things around with exclusives. Infamous , Uncharted and Journey in particular gave Playstation the reputation they currently rely upon as masters of the cinematic game. While multiplats performed poorly on the system, the first party line up had so many 'unmissable' exclusives that sales shot up and quickly began to catch up to the 360, a system that itself had its fair share of exclusives, but relied far more heavily on multiplatform games, especially in the second half of the generation.

In fact I'd argue this is the first piece of evidence we have agains platform agnosticism.

The 360 initially, like the X1 before it, relied heavily on PC ports other consoles struggled with, because almost no one was gaming on PC at the time. PC was just not a competitor in the casual gaming market at the time, only really starting to pick up a growing market share after Steam started selling third party software in late 2005, half a year after the 360 launched.

For the early years of 7th gen, PC gaming just wasn't a factor in where the vast majority of gamers were choosing to play, making PC ports on the 360 exclusives by default to most people.

It's hard to overstate just how massive a sea change Steam was in the gaming space. It took a few years to really catch on, buoyed by its legendary sale events, but by the end of 7th gen it had become the defacto front for PC gaming and established the platform as a true competitor to consoles. PC releases went from a niche for rich nerds to a genuinely easy to utilise and safe to invest in option for the majority.

Suddenly those PC game ports to the 360 were not the only realistic way to play those games, but suddenly the inferior and more expensive option.

And so, having lost its effective exclusives and having neglected its first party games chasing the Kinect fad, Xbox tarnished its reputation and began to die.

8th gen saw these divergent paths solidify further. PS4 had its amazing library of exclusives to make choosing it over the XO a safe bet, even during the heady days of misinformation over which console would truly be the stronger and have better third party support. People genuinely expected the XO to be follow the 360 on that front, despite assurances from Playstation that they had fixed this (which they had), but it didn't matter.

People were willing to invest in a PS4 because of the reputation for first party exclusives the brand had earned with the PS3.

Xbox then flailed in panic as their market share tanked. They'd mismanaged their exclusives so much even Halo had become a joke and so they tried leaning on the fact they were a department of MS, and tried to drum up good publicity and additional revenue by sacrificing their underperforming and poorly regarded first party exclusivity.

And it did not help them. Sales have only continued to accelerate in falling, and losses continue to mount. They've even stopped advertising the XSS/X in Europe, so irrelevant have they become there.

Nintendo meanwhile, well yes, the WiiU was a clusterfuck. But the games still sold well. Infact many of the better games on the system outsold their contemporaries on the other consoles. If you knew what a WiiU was, you bought the exclusives.

The trouble was, most didn't know what it was.

But then, alongside the other mid gen refreshes, the Switch was released, and blew the barn doors off, in no small part due to Breath of the Wild, which may have been the most hotly anticipated game of my lifetime, and it's gone on to sell 40M units, on a console that is literally just an out of date tablet with a couple of controls bolted to the side, and was that way since day one.

So we have Xbox as the first piece of evidence. Terrible exclusives coinciding with declining sales, before going multiplatform and those sales getting even worse, with the company circling the drain, likely going third party at best, getting shut down entirely at worst.

The second bit of evidence is Nintendo. It has stuck with traditional exclusives, and continued to see success. Even in the dark days of the WiiU, their exclusives moved hardware when they released, and managed to avoid the consistent losses Xbox has seen. Today they're a generation behind the Xbox and Playstation on the hardware front, but consistently ourself them both, and make a healthy profit.

Then there's Playstation. The company that saved the PS3 with its exclusives. That gained a reputation for great, creative, and widely appealing titles with the PS4, a console that could have rivalled the PS2 if it hadn't dropped off so hard towards the end of its life, when they copied Xbox and began porting to PC.

Suddenly the number of exclusives declined. They changed from only needing 1 in 4 games to make a profit (stated by Shuhei Yoshida on multiple occasions), to needing to abandon smaller games, make dryer everything was as safe and inoffensive as possible, and go all in on AAA and live services to make sure every game made a profit.

And what was the result? PS5 sales have fallen behind PS4. Profits are sagging massively, people are not moving on to current gen hardware like they should do, and games like Concord are trying so hard to appeal to a wide audience, going insanely politically correct and chasing whatever the big trend was popular with Multiplats at the time development began, that they've lost all personality and appeal.

Playstation simply is not in any way arguably evidence that abandoning exclusives improves sales or profits. It's evidence against.

So yes, sorry for the essay again, but I wanted to really paint a picture on how bloody stupid an argument going multiplatform doesn't hurt a platform holder or their games actually is.

It should be obvious, but as @HE1NZ demonstrates, some people are doggedly refusing to accept that they're wrong, even as 2/3 consoles demonstrate that the bleeding obvious to anyone with half a brain was infact just as bad of an idea as it clearly was from day one.

But I think some people just want everything on PC so badly they're either prepared to see quality and quantity drop to get it, or just won't let themselves admit they're selfish little pricks, that don't care that they're harming their hobby and making games worse.
 
It's 100% cope by ignorant, childish modern PC players, and dumbarse Xbox fanboys, that bears no resemblance to the reality of what consoels sell well and what we have been told is the reason exclusives exist in times gone past.

Even going back to the NES vs Master System, it was Mario and Sonic that were the most obvious reasons to own one system over the other. Platform holders invested in exclusives, be they first, second or third party, to distinguish themselves from the competition.

There are more examples of this pushing otherwise old or lacking hardware over competitors than you can shake a stick at. The first and most infamous would be Tetris on the Gameboy, followed by Pokémon, both of which catapulted an 'outdated at launch' brick to be one of the most successful handhelds of all time.

Even the oft cited lack of first party exclusives on PS1 and PS2 is a complete fabrication.

PS1 launched in with Wipeout, one of the most influential and popular games of it's generation, and a game that laid the groundwork for PlayStation's continued success in Europ to this day.

What's more, the idea you can dismiss the third party exclusives it had as if that doesn't count is obvious cope. The N64 and Saturn did not have MGS, FF, or most Tomb Raiders. Playstation may have got those exclusives by making deals and providing a better environment for third parties, but that still meant it's success was based on exclusives.

Going into recent history with 7th gen, which really laid the groundwork for today, both Playstation and Nintendo's successes here are directly due to exclusives.

The Wii sold to that blue ocean new audience due to Wii Sports. That pack in game was arguably the most important in their history, and once the console was in homes, it was exclusives that kept business going. To argue Mario Kart isn't a game that sells hardware units is retardery of the highest order.

The PS3 too turned things around with exclusives. Infamous , Uncharted and Journey in particular gave Playstation the reputation they currently rely upon as masters of the cinematic game. While multiplats performed poorly on the system, the first party line up had so many 'unmissable' exclusives that sales shot up and quickly began to catch up to the 360, a system that itself had its fair share of exclusives, but relied far more heavily on multiplatform games, especially in the second half of the generation.

In fact I'd argue this is the first piece of evidence we have agains platform agnosticism.

The 360 initially, like the X1 before it, relied heavily on PC ports other consoles struggled with, because almost no one was gaming on PC at the time. PC was just not a competitor in the casual gaming market at the time, only really starting to pick up a growing market share after Steam started selling third party software in late 2005, half a year after the 360 launched.

For the early years of 7th gen, PC gaming just wasn't a factor in where the vast majority of gamers were choosing to play, making PC ports on the 360 exclusives by default to most people.

It's hard to overstate just how massive a sea change Steam was in the gaming space. It took a few years to really catch on, buoyed by its legendary sale events, but by the end of 7th gen it had become the defacto front for PC gaming and established the platform as a true competitor to consoles. PC releases went from a niche for rich nerds to a genuinely easy to utilise and safe to invest in option for the majority.

Suddenly those PC game ports to the 360 were not the only realistic way to play those games, but suddenly the inferior and more expensive option.

And so, having lost its effective exclusives and having neglected its first party games chasing the Kinect fad, Xbox tarnished its reputation and began to die.

8th gen saw these divergent paths solidify further. PS4 had its amazing library of exclusives to make choosing it over the XO a safe bet, even during the heady days of misinformation over which console would truly be the stronger and have better third party support. People genuinely expected the XO to be follow the 360 on that front, despite assurances from Playstation that they had fixed this (which they had), but it didn't matter.

People were willing to invest in a PS4 because of the reputation for first party exclusives the brand had earned with the PS3.

Xbox then flailed in panic as their market share tanked. They'd mismanaged their exclusives so much even Halo had become a joke and so they tried leaning on the fact they were a department of MS, and tried to drum up good publicity and additional revenue by sacrificing their underperforming and poorly regarded first party exclusivity.

And it did not help them. Sales have only continued to accelerate in falling, and losses continue to mount. They've even stopped advertising the XSS/X in Europe, so irrelevant have they become there.

Nintendo meanwhile, well yes, the WiiU was a clusterfuck. But the games still sold well. Infact many of the better games on the system outsold their contemporaries on the other consoles. If you knew what a WiiU was, you bought the exclusives.

The trouble was, most didn't know what it was.

But then, alongside the other mid gen refreshes, the Switch was released, and blew the barn doors off, in no small part due to Breath of the Wild, which may have been the most hotly anticipated game of my lifetime, and it's gone on to sell 40M units, on a console that is literally just an out of date tablet with a couple of controls bolted to the side, and was that way since day one.

So we have Xbox as the first piece of evidence. Terrible exclusives coinciding with declining sales, before going multiplatform and those sales getting even worse, with the company circling the drain, likely going third party at best, getting shut down entirely at worst.

The second bit of evidence is Nintendo. It has stuck with traditional exclusives, and continued to see success. Even in the dark days of the WiiU, their exclusives moved hardware when they released, and managed to avoid the consistent losses Xbox has seen. Today they're a generation behind the Xbox and Playstation on the hardware front, but consistently ourself them both, and make a healthy profit.

Then there's Playstation. The company that saved the PS3 with its exclusives. That gained a reputation for great, creative, and widely appealing titles with the PS4, a console that could have rivalled the PS2 if it hadn't dropped off so hard towards the end of its life, when they copied Xbox and began porting to PC.

Suddenly the number of exclusives declined. They changed from only needing 1 in 4 games to make a profit (stated by Shuhei Yoshida on multiple occasions), to needing to abandon smaller games, make dryer everything was as safe and inoffensive as possible, and go all in on AAA and live services to make sure every game made a profit.

And what was the result? PS5 sales have fallen behind PS4. Profits are sagging massively, people are not moving on to current gen hardware like they should do, and games like Concord are trying so hard to appeal to a wide audience, going insanely politically correct and chasing whatever the big trend was popular with Multiplats at the time development began, that they've lost all personality and appeal.

Playstation simply is not in any way arguably evidence that abandoning exclusives improves sales or profits. It's evidence against.

So yes, sorry for the essay again, but I wanted to really paint a picture on how bloody stupid an argument going multiplatform doesn't hurt a platform holder or their games actually is.

It should be obvious, but as @HE1NZ demonstrates, some people are doggedly refusing to accept that they're wrong, even as 2/3 consoles demonstrate that the bleeding obvious to anyone with half a brain was infact just as bad of an idea as it clearly was from day one.

But I think some people just want everything on PC so badly they're either prepared to see quality and quantity drop to get it, or just won't let themselves admit they're selfish little pricks, that don't care that they're harming their hobby and making games worse.

Holy fuck. He wrote a whole novel
 
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Funded concord while telling everyone we can't have Days Gone 2. For me, they would need to put out a proper Gran Turismo, give us another Syphon Filter and Days Gone 2. I want to love my PS5. I think it's a wonderful console but it just never got the support needed games-wise.
 
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- Move HQ back to Japan or literally anywhere else but the west.

- totally kill all live service games in production without question or exception.

- scale back on the cinematic AAAAA slop, invest more into smaller, different games, and stop wasting devs time on doing worthless remakes. Stop hindering Japanese games with censorship etc.

- either fix or just sell off Naughty Dog. Other studios affected by the modern gaming trends should be fixed as well.

- go back to focusing on the disc market, become the platform that is best for physical media (no digital only consoles, no mandatory downloads for disc releases), then get back into making their games exclusive. PC ports can fuck off for all i care if they properly embrace physical media again.

Obviously none of the above is possible because it's not profitable to do so, but I don't care, this is what I'd want from Sony or else they're dead in my eyes.
 
There's no evidence that exclusive games drive hardware sales. It's all Sony fanboy folklore

Ok, so let's assume that 40 years of sales evidence to the contrary, platform holder executive interviews talking about the value of exclusives, and the current success of Nintendo compared to Xbox and PlayStation all don't apply to the current status quo, what evidence do you have that good games that are only available on one specific specific platform, do not make people buy that hardware over a competitor?


EDIT: or are you just joking? I'd really love to have fallen for an elaborate troll, but it would be uncharacteristically clever of you.
 
Exclusives have always sold hardware; it's literally why Nintendo is still alive. Also, think back to the OG Xbox, if not for exclusives, why would anyone have bought an Xbox? I think Halo was an absolute system seller; it was a game everyone wanted to play and you couldn't play it anywhere else.
 
Ok, so let's assume that 40 years of sales evidence to the contrary, platform holder executive interviews talking about the value of exclusives, and the current success of Nintendo compared to Xbox and PlayStation all don't apply to the current status quo, what evidence do you have that good games that are only available on one specific specific platform, do not make people buy that hardware over a competitor?


EDIT: or are you just joking? I'd really love to have fallen for an elaborate troll, but it would be uncharacteristically clever of you.

We already discussed it. Nintendo consistently makes high quality games, but their hardware sales vary wildly. N64, GameCube and Wii U all had great games and were losing badly to Sony who offered cheap disc players. Other than exclusive games there are other equally important reasons for console success like price, hardware features, third party support, timing, marketing, etc. Worship of exclusives is overrated.
 
Ah, so you're taking the silly approach of arguing that if it's not the sole reason for sales and success, and that the console with the most/best exclusives might not end up being the most successful, that means it's not important at all, and that it must therefore have no effect on anything at all either.

You silly sausage.
 
When PC still had AAA exclusives worthy of building a PC for, exclusives mattered. Now that most AAA games are multiplatform, PC plays those same games but with better frame rate. The PC is no longer a barrier of entry into popular AAA titles

Having played PC from the late 80s to the early 00s, I can say confidently that PC gamers used to care about exclusives. Once Steam took over, Minecraft took over, and a bunch of ex-360 gamers switched to PC, suddenly exclusives didn't matter as much as they once did….

Microsoft has polluted the gaming space with fanboy drivel regarding exclusives. I can only wonder why THE COMPANY for PC/Xbox wouldn't want customers worrying as much about exclusives just as their own platforms lose most of their exclusive leverage….
 
EDIT: or are you just joking? I'd really love to have fallen for an elaborate troll, but it would be uncharacteristically clever of you.

I've actually suspected for awhile Heinz is a troll. Ubisoft is great, Zelda has always been about puzzles, exclusives don't sell consoles, and a bunch of other of his greatest hits. I don't think he's serious about the majority of what he says, he's like an undercover agent who has went super deep into the trolling and won't come out. I'm like 95% sure it's all an act.
 
Not going to argue that SMB Wonder isnt well received. But I have no idea if it was based on direct community feedback or not.

What I do know is that had a lower attach rate than many Mario games. Switch was at what 130m unit install base when it released...and sold ~5m at launch and 13m LTD? It would need some long legs to catch up to catch up the biggest selling SMB games. I mean just compare its performance to Odyssey... which featured that hat mechanic that no one asked for...but it worked.

It sold 13M in ~5 months. I don't think we have any numbers for it after March. Nintendo is about to offer a Super Mario Wonder Switch console that should sell pretty well.
 
Super Mario Odyssey sold about 12 million more copies than Super Mario Bros. Wonder (roughly 25 million compared to SMBW's 13 million) but Super Mario Odyssey is a 3D Mario game which usually pulls in more buyers, and it was a launch title for the Nintendo Switch. Super Mario Bros. Wonder released seven years into the Switch's time as well. I see what you're saying about innovation being the focal point in driving sales through the roof but this notion of disregarding the hardcore fans is not practical. The hardcore fans want all the bases covered in their games and have great ideas. Surveys are posted for fans for the very reason of delivering on what is desired in video games

Super Mario Odyssey released months after the launch of Switch. Mario Wonder released less than a year ago and in the 7th/8th year of Switch. Mario Wonder is truly pushing incredible numbers. It's not done selling. The Mario Wonder Switch bundle is likely to push big numbers this Christmas.

I don't know that 3D Mario sells better than 2D Mario. If you look at the all-time sales list for Nintendo games, the ranking of Super Marios by sales numbers looks like this:

  1. Super Mario Bros. - 48.24M
  2. NEW Super Mario Bros DS - 30.80M
  3. NEW Super Mario Bros Wii - 30.32M
  4. Super Mario Odyssey - 26.95M
  5. Super Mario World - 26.30M
  6. New Super Mario Bros. U - 25.59M
  7. Super Mario Bros. 3 - 23.71M
  8. Super Mario 64 - 22.97M
  9. Super Mario 3D World - 18.47M
  10. NEW Super Mario Bros. 2 - 13.37M
I feel like they both sell really well, but it's hard for me to ignore that Mario Galaxy is no where to be found in the top 50 best selling Nintendo games while NSMB Wii sits in 3rd place. I also feel like Super Mario 64's sales numbers should be a lot better having been bolstered by the DS remake.

I sort of get the feeling that new 2D Mario games sell gangbusters, but the same is not always true for 3D Marios. Seriously, where is Mario Galaxy 1&2 on this list? lol
 
Super Mario Odyssey released months after the launch of Switch. Mario Wonder released less than a year ago and in the 7th/8th year of Switch. Mario Wonder is truly pushing incredible numbers. It's not done selling. The Mario Wonder Switch bundle is likely to push big numbers this Christmas.

I don't know that 3D Mario sells better than 2D Mario. If you look at the all-time sales list for Nintendo games, the ranking of Super Marios by sales numbers looks like this:

  1. Super Mario Bros. - 48.24M
  2. NEW Super Mario Bros DS - 30.80M
  3. NEW Super Mario Bros Wii - 30.32M
  4. Super Mario Odyssey - 26.95M
  5. Super Mario World - 26.30M
  6. New Super Mario Bros. U - 25.59M
  7. Super Mario Bros. 3 - 23.71M
  8. Super Mario 64 - 22.97M
  9. Super Mario 3D World - 18.47M
  10. NEW Super Mario Bros. 2 - 13.37M
I feel like they both sell really well, but it's hard for me to ignore that Mario Galaxy is no where to be found in the top 50 best selling Nintendo games while NSMB Wii sits in 3rd place. Not only that, but Super Mario 64 DS is no where to be seen but both NSMB DS AND NSMB 2 are sitting in 2nd and 10th place respectively.

I think 2D Mario outsells 3D Mario, actually, and I think Super Mario Wonder will surpass Odyssey within a couple of years.

Yeah, 2D Mario sells better. It should be known at this point. New Super Mario Bros on DS sold insane numbers that surprised Nintendo, and NSMB Wii was responsible for the historic Wii sales in 2009. NSMB U sold decently if you combine sales from Wii U and the Switch port. Even Mario Maker 2 will hit 10 million lifetime sales if it hasn't already.

3D Mario has always been the spinoff in terms of sales numbers.
 
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Yeah, 2D Mario sells better. It should be known at this point. New Super Mario Bros on DS sold insane numbers that surprised Nintendo, and NSMB Wii was responsible for the historic Wii sales in 2009. NSMB U sold decently if you combine sales from Wii U and the Switch port. Even Mario Maker 2 will hit 10 million lifetime sales if it hasn't already.

3D Mario has always been the spinoff in terms of sales numbers.

I think the 2D Mario's are that perfect storm of quality, nostalgia, accessibility and recognizability. There's few other game franchises out there that have that level of reach and so wide an audience.

Hell, my wife didn't play a 2D Mario game until NSMB DS when she was in her late teens, and she still vastly prefers them to the 3D games.

They're the kind of game that gets attention with parents due to nostalgia, but can actually back that nostalgia up.
 
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Yeah, 2D Mario sells better. It should be known at this point. New Super Mario Bros on DS sold insane numbers that surprised Nintendo, and NSMB Wii was responsible for the historic Wii sales in 2009. NSMB U sold decently if you combine sales from Wii U and the Switch port. Even Mario Maker 2 will hit 10 million lifetime sales if it hasn't already.

3D Mario has always been the spinoff in terms of sales numbers.

And I even like 3D Mario more than 2D Mario, but it's hard to ignore how much better 2D Mario has sold, historically, than 3D Mario.

I even find it a little strange how well Mario Odyssey has sold considering I don't have the same fondness for it that I do for Wonder. I even feel like Odyssey was a bit short and wraps up sort of abruptly. And yet it has pushed 27M units sold. Absurd. That game caught lightning in a bottle with Jump Up Superstar!
 
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Get the Hollywood people the hell out. of decision making roles. Sony Games have become the Marvel Comics farm team for hypothetical Sony Pictures mega franchises. Shit is whack, and will only get more whack as the normie versions overtake the source versions like happened in Marvel, Star Wars, and every other IP factory farm.

Also, get Japan devs back and let them cook ffs.

I know @Stilton Disco mentioned this also, but I don't agree. To me that's like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. America is the biggest market, and the Yen is super weak (hence the Japanese price rises this month). Nintendo doesn't compete in the same space, not really on a tech or ideological level.

Hard to agree after Concord cost millions upon millions, not to mention the opportunity costs, only to get shut down in 10 days.
Nintendo's current Switch ecology is much closer to the $199 Playstation 1 era than, say, there Wii era.
 
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And I even like 3D Mario more than 2D Mario, but it's hard to ignore how much better 2D Mario has sold, historically, than 3D Mario.

I even find it a little strange how well Mario Odyssey has sold considering I don't have the same fondness for it that I do for Wonder. I even feel like Odyssey was a bit short and wraps up sort of abruptly. And yet it has pushed 27M units sold. Absurd. That game caught lightning in a bottle with Jump Up Superstar!

Odyssey deserves its sales in my opinion. If you include post-game moons and the Luigi minigame, there's a lot of stuff to bring someone back month after month. I think I'd rank it as my #2 3D Mario, second only to 3D World.


I think the 2D Mario's are that perfect storm of quality, nostalgia, accessibility and recognizability. There's few other game franchises out there that have that level of reach and so wide an audience.

Hell, my wife didn't play a 2D Mario game until NSMB DS when she was in her late teens, and she still vastly prefers them to the 3D games.

They're the kind of game that gets attention with parents due to nostalgia, but can actually back that nostalgia up.

Mario was always a family game, what with the multiplayer and friendly tone. 3D Mario lost the multiplayer "pass me the controller" aspect completely, and it isn't the same kind of pick-up-and-play experience like 2D Mario. Still Mario, sure, but there's a reason why there was a steep drop of mainline Mario sales during N64/GC era followed by a sharp increase in DS/Wii when side scrolling was reintroduced.
 
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Odyssey deserves its sales in my opinion. If you include post-game moons and the Luigi minigame, there's a lot of stuff to bring someone back month after month. I think I'd rank it as my #2 3D Mario, second only to 3D World.




Mario was always a family game, what with the multiplayer and friendly tone. 3D Mario lost the multiplayer "pass me the controller" aspect completely, and it isn't the same kind of pick-up-and-play experience like 2D Mario. Still Mario, sure, but there's a reason why there was a steep drop of mainline Mario sales during N64/GC era followed by a sharp increase in DS/Wii when side scrolling was reintroduced.

You'd rank Odyssey above Galaxy 1 or 2?

I definitely wouldn't...

Odyssey has some masterpiece moments, though. As I said, it simply wraps up too quickly. It's missing one or two more kingdoms. If Isle Delfino wasn't among the base game set of kingdoms, it definitely deserved DLC. The game needed more.
 
You'd rank Odyssey above Galaxy 1 or 2?

I definitely wouldn't...

Odyssey has some masterpiece moments, though. As I said, it simply wraps up too quickly. It's missing one or two more kingdoms. If Isle Delfino wasn't among the base game set of kingdoms, it definitely deserved DLC. The game needed more.

I hated Galaxy's broken-apart level design and aesthetic. Felt like I was playing through a bunch of disconnected cutting room floor ideas from SM64 and Sunshine.

Odyssey's stages feel like full-blown stages. The stages also feel more dynamic (e.g. all the little changes on the maps once you beat the game); kinda reminds me of how alive the Delphino hub felt in Sunshine except now it's several stages not just the hub area.
 
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Most fans of the Super Mario Bros. series are huge on SMB3 being at the top, among the best of the best. You constantly will see those who have played it in top five lists if not top three it'll be somewhere around there

Super Mario Odyssey sold about 12 million more copies than Super Mario Bros. Wonder (roughly 25 million compared to SMBW's 13 million) but Super Mario Odyssey is a 3D Mario game which usually pulls in more buyers, and it was a launch title for the Nintendo Switch. Super Mario Bros. Wonder released seven years into the Switch's time as well. I see what you're saying about innovation being the focal point in driving sales through the roof but this notion of disregarding the hardcore fans is not practical. The hardcore fans want all the bases covered in their games and have great ideas. Surveys are posted for fans for the very reason of delivering on what is desired in video games

PlayStation needs to listen to their oldest fans. Honestly everyone at this junction needs to take note of what Nintendo is doing and just copy them. PlayStation and Xbox are definitely going to be one foot in the grave if this nonsense continues for them. Xbox already is, but PlayStation is quickly following in their footsteps. Nobody respects their brand anymore, they pander to men who pretend to have pussies these days...
For the classic 2D Mario games.
I rate it Super Mario world/3 and one.I think world holds up really well.

Wonder will be up there for me given time.
 
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There's no evidence that exclusive games drive hardware sales. It's all Sony fanboy folklore

Dude, I'm mostly PC now, but every console and handheld I've bought in my life was for the exclusives.

Sony consoles and Nintendo handhelds.

Maybe there's a certain amount of kids that just want a fortnite box, but a strong library of desirable exclusives delivered in a timely fashion is unbeatable.
 
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Dude, I'm mostly PC now, but every console and handheld I've bought in my life was for the exclusives.

Sony consoles and Nintendo handhelds.

Maybe there's a certain amount of kids that just want a fortnite box, but a strong library of desirable exclusives delivered in a timely fashion is unbeatable.

I bought consoles for exclusives too, but I think only a tiny minority of people do that. Most buy them for FIFA, Call of Duty or some racing game and only then check out what other games are available. That's the case with most console owners I know.
 
Tell the UN, WEF and their allies/supporters to choke on a giant virtual dildo, everything else will naturally fall into place.

rozovyjj-dildo-dlja-gta-5_1686001033_348805.jpg
 
I bought consoles for exclusives too, but I think only a tiny minority of people do that. Most buy them for FIFA, Call of Duty or some racing game and only then check out what other games are available. That's the case with most console owners I know.

Non-exclusives end up being a wash though for console sales. You might need third-party support to make sure the competition doesn't outrun you (If your first-party lineup can't make up for it), but there's nothing about it that will guarantee the win.

The best experience you'll have playing third-party games is on Xbox and PS5, but the Switch is essentially the most successful console of all time.

Here are the top 10 best-selling games on Switch. These are the reasons people are buying the console:

image.png


All exclusives.

The top 100 list doesn't even include FIFA and Call of Duty isn't on Switch. It doesn't need it to be the best-selling console of all time (coming up on it).

Your argument doesn't work, bud. It's about the games.
 
I bought consoles for exclusives too, but I think only a tiny minority of people do that. Most buy them for FIFA, Call of Duty or some racing game and only then check out what other games are available. That's the case with most console owners I know.
Eeven assuming that is the majority of people, which as @O-N-E pointed out, doesn't hold water due to Nintendo proving otherwise with both the Switch and Wii before it, and they really are only buying a system for multiplats, then how do you think people choose between two systems that have all the same games and roughly equal price and power, like the PS5 and XSX? Why is one selling multiple times more than the other?

Because once you've decided what multiplats you want, then you start looking at what sets them apart from one another, and a major component of that has always been exclusives.

And you're not just competing against the same power and price either. If you don't care about resolution and are a bit of a tightwad, maybe you'd prefer the XSS, or if you have money to burn and want the best experience you'll buy a PC, but then you see Astrobot, it's getting 10/10's all over the place, and you think 'maybe I'll spend that but extra to get that too', or 'maybe I don't need all those pixels if it means that as well as FIFA. I bet the kids will love it'.

That's why exclusives aren't meant to compete with third parties. You want to give people as many reasons to go with you over the competition.

Nintendo gets this so well it doesn't need multiplats at all, and Playstation learnt this lesson in 7th gen, when the 360 was both cheaper and far better for 90% of multiplats.

But the PS3 went on to outsell the 360. Not by much, but it still sold more, and it did it because it ended up having far better first party exclusives. The multiplatform games were still selling more on 360 even at the end, but Playstation beat team green to secon place after the Wii, and it did so not by copying motion controls, but by following Nintendo's lead and getting its exclusive offerings into a proposition people just couldn't say no to.
 
Eeven assuming that is the majority of people, which as @O-N-E pointed out, doesn't hold water due to Nintendo proving otherwise with both the Switch and Wii before it, and they really are only buying a system for multiplats, then how do you think people choose between two systems that have all the same games and roughly equal price and power, like the PS5 and XSX? Why is one selling multiple times more than the other?

Because once you've decided what multiplats you want, then you start looking at what sets them apart from one another, and a major component of that has always been exclusives.

And you're not just competing against the same power and price either. If you don't care about resolution and are a bit of a tightwad, maybe you'd prefer the XSS, or if you have money to burn and want the best experience you'll buy a PC, but then you see Astrobot, it's getting 10/10's all over the place, and you think 'maybe I'll spend that but extra to get that too', or 'maybe I don't need all those pixels if it means that as well as FIFA. I bet the kids will love it'.

That's why exclusives aren't meant to compete with third parties. You want to give people as many reasons to go with you over the competition.

Nintendo gets this so well it doesn't need multiplats at all, and Playstation learnt this lesson in 7th gen, when the 360 was both cheaper and far better for 90% of multiplats.

But the PS3 went on to outsell the 360. Not by much, but it still sold more, and it did it because it ended up having far better first party exclusives. The multiplatform games were still selling more on 360 even at the end, but Playstation beat team green to secon place after the Wii, and it did so not by copying motion controls, but by following Nintendo's lead and getting its exclusive offerings into a proposition people just couldn't say no to.

To add to this:

360 had the initial reputation of "way more exclusives". In those early years, it seemed plausible that 360 would end up being the next PS2, so everyone was on board. So many PC devs were on board. It seemed poised to knock Sony down significantly.

Then RRoD happened. Then the exclusives dried up. Remember that 18-24 months when 360 fanbase was trumpeting how the system had better multi platform versions? I mean, it did in a lot of cases, but that was a sign of the shift from "exclusives matter" to "the best version of multiplats matter".

PS3 was a train wreck that slowly got back on the rails. And it was through exclusives that demonstrated the powah of the Cell. It was through third-party partnerships and exclusives in niche genres (like Nippon Ichi's stuff, Pyramid, and Japan Studio). By the end of the gen, if you didn't have a PS3 you were missing out, and if you were only just getting a 360 you had missed the heyday by a few years.
 
Non-exclusives end up being a wash though for console sales. You might need third-party support to make sure the competition doesn't outrun you (If your first-party lineup can't make up for it), but there's nothing about it that will guarantee the win.

The best experience you'll have playing third-party games is on Xbox and PS5, but the Switch is essentially the most successful console of all time.

Here are the top 10 best-selling games on Switch. These are the reasons people are buying the console:

image.png


All exclusives.

The top 100 list doesn't even include FIFA and Call of Duty isn't on Switch. It doesn't need it to be the best-selling console of all time (coming up on it).

Your argument doesn't work, bud. It's about the games.

A lot of these were bundled. Decent numbers overall but attach rate isn't really all that high considering there are 150m Switches in the wild. Mario Kart has higher attach rate on Wii U.
 
Eeven assuming that is the majority of people, which as @O-N-E pointed out, doesn't hold water due to Nintendo proving otherwise with both the Switch and Wii before it, and they really are only buying a system for multiplats, then how do you think people choose between two systems that have all the same games and roughly equal price and power, like the PS5 and XSX? Why is one selling multiple times more than the other?

Because once you've decided what multiplats you want, then you start looking at what sets them apart from one another, and a major component of that has always been exclusives.

PS5 is having less exclusives than any other Sony console, but it is a fashionable hardware so it sells. And Switch is the most fashionable by far.

You're giving an average person too much credit. They buy a console, then look at available games on it. They don't research if competition console have better exclusives. Only us nerds do. Game's not available on a console they own then it doesn't exist.
 
Given Totoki-san's comments regarding a lack of first party IP, it would be nice to see Sony move back toward AA experiments with games like Maximus or Dark Cloud.

Utilise that dormant IP. Stuff like Syphon Filter would be great to get a proper modern retooling.

There's no quick fix, but this all-in approach on AAA Cinematic quality single player stuff can still exist alongside smaller, cheaper projects to flesh out the catalogue and have a more robust offering against MS and Nintendo.
 
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For me a lot of it simply comes down to game budgets. There's too much spent on motion capture, professional actors and fancy graphics. I'd like to see more game output with smaller budgets. That allows for more quirky and fun stuff and you get games more often. I know Final Fantasy isn't made by Sony, but is a good example. We got 3 mainline games on the PS1 and now get 1 each gen. Most big franchises are seeing this same thing.

Since budgets are so high companies are playing it safe. Spider-Man and God of War felt stale to me since they were more of the same. Then Sony wastes resources with unneeded stuff like remakes of last of us and until dawn.

And stuff should get cheaper as time goes on not more expensive. Sony is too confident once again and has bad practices like this.