Succession S03 IOTI It’s war, fuck off!

Thread: Succession S03 IOTI It’s war, fuck off!
Official Thread

Most hated / least favorite Succession character

  • Logan Roy

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Kendall Roy

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Roman Roy

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Siobhan "Shiv" Roy

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Connor Roy

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Tom Wambsgans

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Greg Hirsch

    Votes: 2 100.0%
  • Total voters
    2
@Grisham

Glad to find another fan of The Ringer. I don't always agree with their takes (and Greenwald can get on my nerves at times). However, I enjoy the interplay.

Episode 6 was pretty good. Matthew Macfadyen really knocking it out of the park as 'Deadman Walking' Tom realising the true role of the sin eater.
 
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I know nothing about this show, I could use something to watch in the background.

Sell me on this plz.
 
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Dacon said:
I know nothing about this show, I could use something to watch in the background.

Sell me on this plz.
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I think this is a good description .

Succession arguably has the most work cut out for it in this regard. At its heart is an old-fashioned family soap opera, in the style of Dallas or Dynasty. Like those shows, Succession is about the unchecked mega-rich, the offshoots of capitalism run amok. Like those shows, it is a lot of fun to watch, frequently as funny and audacious as anything TV has cooked up.

But unlike those shows, Succession's plot twists rarely involve sexy complications. It has yet to reveal a whole season as having all been a dream. Instead, the show finds its pleasure in endless business machinations, in the ways that members of the Roy family compete with each other for dominance and the ways their competition has scarred them irreparably.
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It's a show with great writing and perfomances.
 
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On top of The Watch Podcast, the Ringer also features Succession on The Prestige TV Podcast

The Prestige TV Podcast - The Ringer

The Prestige TV Podcast on The Ringer
www.theringer.com www.theringer.com

They also have Cast Interviews towards the end of every episode, which alone are worth a listen. The First Episode has Brian Cox and his explanation as to Logan was really insightful.
 
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Is this show better or worse when it leans in heavily off real world politics, personalities and, well, propaganda?

That's a question I've been wrestling with and I think it would be a lot better served trying to keep those influences as subtle as possible. Subtlety, of course, is a lost art these days. It's placing the tired, nuance-free positions and talking points of the corporate media onto its characters which makes them predictable and a lot less interesting.

The series got its hooks in me real deep with the first season largely because it wasn't quite the caricature I expected of the Murdoch family and Fox News as told from the perspective of propaganda-raised lefties. The characters and plot points were unique enough to stand on their own. Season 2 held up well, but it started giving me warnings signs. Season 3 is where they lost me.

A scene like this, for example, after talking fascism with Roman (and later the family photo scene with Shiv, a few posts up):

Succession_2.gif


That stops being Mencken and all I see is the media's oversimplified, flawed perception of Trump. That these fictional media tycoons view him in the exact same light, without going to the trouble of explaining why, murders my suspension of disbelief.
 
Joe T. said:
Is this show better or worse when it leans in heavily off real world politics, personalities and, well, propaganda?

That's a question I've been wrestling with and I think it would be a lot better served trying to keep those influences as subtle as possible. Subtlety, of course, is a lost art these days. It's placing the tired, nuance-free positions and talking points of the corporate media onto its characters which makes them predictable and a lot less interesting.

The series got its hooks in me real deep with the first season largely because it wasn't quite the caricature I expected of the Murdoch family and Fox News as told from the perspective of propaganda-raised lefties. The characters and plot points were unique enough to stand on their own. Season 2 held up well, but it started giving me warnings signs. Season 3 is where they lost me.

A scene like this, for example, after talking fascism with Roman (and later the family photo scene with Shiv, a few posts up):

Succession_2.gif


That stops being Mencken and all I see is the media's oversimplified, flawed perception of Trump. That these fictional media tycoons view him in the exact same light, without going to the trouble of explaining why, murders my suspension of disbelief.
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Disagree entirely, Menchel isn't Trump or a pastiche of him. Trump didn't need to chase the media, the media chased Trump. I think Menchel is someones who is more you're hyper-educated hard right style republican, clearly a little too sharp for someone with Democratic tendencies like Shiv, but he's someone Roman and Logan think is a better choice because Vice President Mr Lip licker who they didn't think had it in him to see of a Democratic challenge.

Half the writers (including the showrunner) are Brits and have worked on Veep and In the thick of it. They're interested more in the central family drama of the Roys rather than bringing any johnny come lately commentary to the Trump presidency from what I can see.
 
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Kadayi said:
Disagree entirely, Menchel isn't Trump or a pastiche of him. Trump didn't need to chase the media, the media chased Trump. I think Menchel is someones who is more you're hyper-educated hard right style republican, clearly a little too sharp for someone with Democratic tendencies like Shiv, but he's someone Roman and Logan think is a better choice because Vice President Mr Lip licker who they didn't think had it in him to see of a Democratic challenge.

Half the writers (including the showrunner) are Brits and have worked on Veep and In the thick of it. They're interested more in the central family drama of the Roys rather than bringing any johnny come lately commentary to the Trump presidency from what I can see.
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Corporate media's public perception of Trump isn't the same as yours or mine, an important distinction. In their eyes he and Mencken are fundamentally the same: xenophobic, racist/white nationalist, sexist/misogynistic and fascist. They crammed almost all of that into the bathroom scene with Roman (Youtube clip).

The Coke drop off, "deep state conspiracy hour," his charisma vs older network viewers, the "shit show" primary, Roman's "dad, I know we came to market to find you a milk cow but we found you a fucking t-rex"... It was impossible not to see Trump in the image they were painting of Mencken. Easy to dismiss most of that in a vacuum, but not when it was all stacked up like that in quick succession and in the broader context of the show.

I wondered if I might be reading too much into the episode, but a quick Google search revealed opinions from media critics suggesting that it evoked Trump, too. The Guardian and WaPo made the link though that's to be expected from them, they see Trump everywhere. Vulture mentioned him and his kids a few times in their review and HBO had Scaramucci, of all people, for the official episode podcast - tough for me to see that as a mere coincidence.
 
Finally caught up with Episode 8. JFC, Succession is pretty brutal, but that episode was off the chain. Caroline and Shiv, then Shiv & Tom. Still, good to see Roman fuck up, although I was impressed that he wanted to deflect any blame from Gerry, though I'm not sure she will be long for Waystar in Logan's Eyes.

Kendall...


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Here is hoping it's a rugpull tbh.
 
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That certainly was an ending no one was expecting. Glad Kendall and Jeremy Strong aren't off the show but damn that was a brutal watch, especially in terms of how it plays out. Really curious to see where they go with the series in Season 4 because it looks to me that the kids are basically up shit creek without a paddle here, outplayed by Logan completely. Short of that deal falling apart, they've basically been cut off at the knees. Definitely plenty of podcasts to catch up on now for peoples takes.
 
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This season of Succession has focused on Kendall's downfall, and "All The Bells Say" seemed like it would be some kind of final reckoning for the character. I wasn't convinced that we'd return to find Kendall dead after last week's pool cliffhanger, but I did think a near-death experience might force Kendall to change. Kendall, instead, writes off the event as an accident; the result of one too many limoncellos. The siblings make jokes about it and Kendall's own parents don't even check in on him.

Not that it matters. If Kendall has been impacted by his slip up on a floatie, he isn't sharing that with anyone. Kendall is still just Kendall; yelling at his kids and talking to his lawyer about posting all of his emails and messages on Instagram. Succession isn't ready to say goodbye to Kendall and Kendall, it turns out, isn't ready to say goodbye to Waystar Royco. Despite his posturing as the morally pure Roy, when duty calls, Kendall is there to help guide the coup he wanted at the beginning of the season.

Sadly, it's too little too late. Even after a run in with wedding waiters sends Kendall spiraling, none of the Roy siblings are given time to sit with the weight of Kendall's confession. Shiv and Roman are so focused on getting Kendall in the right headspace to take on their dad, they can't even fathom what he's saying. Perhaps, if they had, they might've realized it may not be the best idea to throw your future in with a guy who seems convinced people are coming after him for the death he caused. As motivated as the trio were, their plan always seemed flimsy. Mostly because it relied on a mother who barely wanted them at her wedding.

While Kendall survives to see "All The Bells Say," it is fair to say a massacre takes place in this finale. All of the Roy children suffer incredible losses and betrayal before eventually losing the company they consider their birthright. Even Connor loses his spiritual standing as the eldest Roy. Logan has pushed his children so far from Waystar's inner circle, they're left scrambling to figure out what's even going on. Roman is so desperate he even tries to push Greg for information.


But, for those of us who know Logan Roy, it was clear he was going to take this deal the second he sent Roman back to his mommy. There was nothing Shiv, Roman or Kendall could do. Like Matsson said, Logan wasn't punching him in the nose and we've certainly seen Logan tell people to fuck off with more flair. Shiv and Kendall have already disappointed Logan and Roman took himself out of the running with his penis pic fiasco. Logan has no faith in his children and other than starting fresh with maca root smoothies and a new kid, he has few options for the future of his empire.

Logan spitting in his kids' faces isn't a surprise. As soon as Roman even said the word "love," I knew Logan would tear him apart. Although, to be fair, it did seem like Gerri's abandonment hurt Roman more. The entire scene where Logan reveals what he's done is a masterclass. Kendall is barely surprised, because he knows how evil his father can be. I also wonder, since Kendall was already looking for a way out, if he was genuinely just trying to help Shiv and Roman. Roman falls to his knees, like Kendall did earlier. It's the worst for Roman since he almost has a way back in, even if he would have to work for Matsson. And Shiv? She tries to stand tall until she realizes how her father knew their plan.

Tom Wambsgans, you beautiful Midwestern King. Throughout this season, I felt like he was scheming or planning some sort of takedown that might destroy Waystar. Instead, there's been no act behind Tom's loyalty towards Logan. Tom has truly never seen Logan get fucked over and he trusts that over anything else. He trusts Logan more than Shiv's promise to freeze an egg. Shiv didn't even consider where Tom would end up in their plan! Like Nero, Tom pushed his wife down the stairs and chose Sporus (Greg). In retrospect, it seems obvious that Tom has been helping Logan. Shiv constantly underestimates him and wouldn't think for a moment that he's the reason Logan knew where to send them donuts in episode two.

"All The Bells Say" features Emmy-worthy moments for Jeremy Strong, Brian Cox, Kieran Culkin and Sarah Snook. Somehow, Cox managed to find the energy of a man half his age when he told his children that he had won. That impression of Shiv is something I'll remember forever. "All the Bells Say" is a finale that beautifully ties together what has felt like a disconnected season. It also resets the stakes for next season in the best possible way, as the Roy siblings are forced to make their own piles of money now. Directed by Mark Mylod, it may also be the show's most beautiful episode.

Succession has reset itself in such an exciting way, that nearly anything could happen in season four. The obvious twists this season felt like a distraction from something far more sinister: Logan being so disgusted with his children, he'd sell the very company he created.
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www.avclub.com

Everything comes together in Succession’s excellent third season finale

Everything comes together in Succession’s excellent third season finale
www.avclub.com www.avclub.com
 
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That was fucking brutal. What an ending, from the moment Shiv approaches Kendall sitting forlornly smoking a tab, all the way through to Roman pleading with Gerri, to Tom's ice cold hands on Shiv's shoulders. Wowsers.

Jeremy Strong will get more awards for this, heartbreaking stuff.
 
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Now there's been a bit of time for people to reflect on the season, there have been quite a few good analysis videos getting into the characters and Tom in particular



Also for funsies

 
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