[GreyHorace]

The big studios have been parroting "competition is good" for so many years, but I think they got blindsided by a game that actually competes and raises standards in the genre. A common story nowadays. Indies are leading us into the future.

Eh? Does Baldur's Gate 3 really count as an indie game? It's a long awaited sequel to a classic CRPG series, and is based on a popular Dungeons & Dragons campaign setting (Forgotten Realms).Obviously they had backing from Wizards of the Coast and Hasbro to make this game.

 

[DonDonDonPata]

I'm not saying you're insulting them, it's just that in my eyes, a team of 450 employees being capable of making something excellent on a grand scale is not surprising and not a B tier effort.

Ninja Theory has 120 employees, inXile has 150 employees, Obsidian has 320, and Bethesda has 420! (latest info I could find).

Eh? Does Baldur's Gate 3 really count as an indie game? It's a long awaited sequel to a classic CRPG series, and is based on a popular Dungeons & Dragons campaign setting (Forgotten Realms).Obviously they had backing from Wizards of the Coast and Hasbro to make this game.

Larian develops and publishes their own games, including BG3. That's pretty indie unless the definition has changed.

B tier isn't meant to be a comment on their effort or the size of the game. One of the lines between AAA and smaller studios is whether the studio is developing more than one game at a time. Scaling up teams (and then often down) for projects is normal and doesn't necessarily make a studio AAA either. Marketing is another major differentiator. Larian's efforts there are not what one could expect from a major AAA release. Parity of release is a third major indicator of a AAA dev: but BG3 had a long beta period on PC, it doesn't even launch on PS5 until months after the PC release, and Xbox version still nowhere in sight simply because of technical problems. When was the last time a game from a AAA studio -- even a small spinoff -- missed a platform because they couldn't get it working (instead of some exclusivity or timed marketing deal)?

 

[O-N-E]

Larian develops and publishes their own games, including BG3. That's pretty indie unless the definition has changed.

B tier isn't meant to be a comment on their effort or the size of the game. One of the lines between AAA and smaller studios is whether the studio is developing more than one game at a time. Scaling up teams (and then often down) for projects is normal and doesn't necessarily make a studio AAA either. Marketing is another major differentiator. Larian's efforts there are not what one could expect from a major AAA release. Parity of release is a third major indicator of a AAA dev: but BG3 had a long beta period on PC, it doesn't even launch on PS5 until months after the PC release, and Xbox version still nowhere in sight simply because of technical problems. When was the last time a game from a AAA studio -- even a small spinoff -- missed a platform because they couldn't get it working (instead of some exclusivity or timed marketing deal)?

I guess you're saying there's a certain difference in dev culture and priorities between B-tier and AAA. I just don't make that distinction. The manpower is well into the AAA threshold.

 

[GreyHorace]

Larian develops and publishes their own games, including BG3. That's pretty indie unless the definition has changed.

B tier isn't meant to be a comment on their effort or the size of the game. One of the lines between AAA and smaller studios is whether the studio is developing more than one game at a time. Scaling up teams (and then often down) for projects is normal and doesn't necessarily make a studio AAA either. Marketing is another major differentiator. Larian's efforts there are not what one could expect from a major AAA release. Parity of release is a third major indicator of a AAA dev: but BG3 had a long beta period on PC, it doesn't even launch on PS5 until months after the PC release, and Xbox version still nowhere in sight simply because of technical problems. When was the last time a game from a AAA studio -- even a small spinoff -- missed a platform because they couldn't get it working (instead of some exclusivity or timed marketing deal)?

That makes sense in terms of definition of what constitutes as an indie developer compared to AAA. The fact that a AAA studio has to work on more than one title concurrently is what doomed Bioware. After the release of Mass Effect 2 they were suddenly developing and releasing games within a 2 year period each. We got Dragon Age 2 which was rushed mess (even though I did like it) and Mass Effect 3 with it's broken systems and AWFUL ending.

Rpgs are not your typical game release. They need at least 4-5 years to properly develop, hence Bethesda's release schedule between their Elder Scrolls and Fallout titles. So I really think it was genius of Larian to have BG3 available on Steam Early Access. It allowed them to get player feedback on what worked in the game and what bugs could be found. Studios should take note and probably follow a similar practice.

 

[DonDonDonPata]

That makes sense in terms of definition of what constitutes as an indie developer compared to AAA. The fact that a AAA studio has to work on more than one title concurrently is what doomed Bioware. After the release of Mass Effect 2 they were suddenly developing and releasing games within a 2 year period each. We got Dragon Age 2 which was rushed mess (even though I did like it) and Mass Effect 3 with it's broken systems and AWFUL ending.

Rpgs are not your typical game release. They need at least 4-5 years to properly develop, hence Bethesda's release schedule between their Elder Scrolls and Fallout titles. So I really think it was genius of Larian to have BG3 available on Steam Early Access. It allowed them to get player feedback on what worked in the game and what bugs could be found. Studios should take note and probably follow a similar practice.

Hopefully they stay in their lane and focus on what they do best. Their studio head knows exactly what the genre needs (article from late 2020)

How an obsession with Ultima 7 led to some of the PC's best RPGs

Swen Vincke is determined to put a little bit of Ultima 7 into every game Larian Studios creates.

www.pcgamer.com

 

[VFX_Veteran]

I don't see it that way. It wasn't meant to insult Larian, it was just a simple observation. They're B tier. They aren't Squeenix. They aren't even inXile, CDPR, or Obsidian. The reaction to their game is an indication that they're punching above their weight.

I would say they WAS b-tier. Not now though.

 

[VFX_Veteran]

What releases? Games? Surely you jest good sir.

Talking about the remakes/remasters.

 

[Saruhashi]

So now devs are complaining about BG3 and all of it's content not stacking up to their goals and calling it unrealistic.

You know that there is something wrong in this industry when a developer releases a pretty good game and other developers come out to say "well don't fucking expect the same level of quality from us, you bastards!"

There was a similar thing with Elden Ring, I think?

It's complete madness, really. You've got these people basically telling their customers not to expect quality. LOL.

Sometimes I just wish the bubble would completely burst and games genuinely need to be interesting and exciting rather than just cookie cutter, buggy, crap that just looks good in screenshots.

 

[Cryptek]

Larian delivered a feature compelte game, in a genre they're good at and have been refining and improving on, with an insane amount of unique and high quality content, that didn't require a massive day one patch, isn't chasing wider industry trends or trying to appeal to the widest, blandest audience possible, hasnt focused on graphics and cinematic experiences over gameplay, isn't full of microtransactions or weird journo bait talking points, and haven't been attacking their players for their in game choices.

And they've sold at least 10 times more copies than they'd expected to for doing so, making most every other major release in the past few years look like a steaming pile of wank in comparison.

So a lot of AAA studios are pissed off at them, and are trying to argue that expecting every game to not be shit is unrealistic and not good business sense anyway.

I love that part about how they released a complete game that doesn't require huge patching and they just did what they wanted to do.

That's fucking based.

I can see why developers are pissed off at them because they're fucking lazy good for nothings who have ruined the industry over the past few years. It's nice to see that some companies like Larian actually care about their product and their consumers.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Not a good look for some studios to say the least.

Last RPGs released:
Blizzard-Activision - Diablo IV - Could have been amazing without being designed around MTX and online.
Bioware - Anthem - LOL.
CDPR - Cyberpunk 2077 - The way it released was beyond unacceptable.
FromSoft - Elden Ring
Gamefreak - Pokemon Scarlet and Violet - Absolutly disgusting performance and design.
Grinding Gear Games - Path of Exile
Larian - Baldur's Gate 3
Logic Artists - Expeditions Rome
Obsidian - The Outer Worlds - They wanted the Rick and Morty crowd.
Owlcat - Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous
InXile - Wasteland 3 - From sound of it they stopped updates while the game still has issues that need them which is never a good look.
Intelligent Systems - Fire Emblem Engage - Gameplay yes. The story espcially after Three Houses? Nope.
Nihon Falcom - The Legend of Heroes: Trails into Reverie
Monolith Soft - Xenoblade Chronicles 3: Future Redeemed
Square Enix - Creative Business Unit III - Final Fantasy XVI
Square Enix - Acquire Corp - Octopath Traveler II
Vanilaware - GrimGrimoire: Once More
WayForward: Advance Wars 1+2 Reboot Camp - Graphics are simplified compared to the older more detailed sprites.
ZA/UM - Disco-Elysium - Bad legal problems.

Wasteland 3 is fine, not sure what issues it needs I don't see in plenty of other games especially since it was a kickstarter game. Disco Elysium's legal problems don't really affect the product, they could affect the sequel tho it's claimed it was mostly finished prior to the departure of certain creatives.