[FactsAreDead]

I'm not following, actually. What do you mean? I

You say there is no meaning to life without god. I find that curious, because part of my depression is my belief that life has no meaning if our existence ends with death. It is the idea of death NOT being the end all that would give life meaning. There's various options for how life would be meaningful then (preparation for post-death, a trial, refinement for your reincarnation, persisting as a ghost who can travel space, etc.), but the point is: existing post death would give meaning.

I cling on the hope that there is a scientific explanation for how we have a "soul" after all that's made from matter that our science cannot detect yet, and that's how death is not the end, thus our existence being meaningful. You go the religious route, believing there is a god and all that entails.

Just found it interesting.

 

[Zefah]

You say there is no meaning to life without god. I find that curious, because part of my depression is my belief that life has no meaning if our existence ends with death. It is the idea of death NOT being the end all that would give life meaning. There's various options for how life would be meaningful then (preparation for post-death, a trial, refinement for your reincarnation, persisting as a ghost who can travel space, etc.), but the point is: existing post death would give meaning.

I cling on the hope that there is a scientific explanation for how we have a "soul" after all that's made from matter that our science cannot detect yet, and that's how death is not the end, thus our existence being meaningful. You go the religious route, believing there is a god and all that entails.

Just found it interesting.

Thanks for clarifying.

I agree that life or some sort of eternal continuity beyond death in this world is a requirement for there to be true meaning. But without God to provide an objective standard for what meaning and morality are, I don't see how there merely being further life or even cycles of life (rebirth, etc. like in Buddhism) would lead to the existence of objective morality and meaning. If anything, I could see eternal existence *without* God actually strengthening the notion that there is no right and wrong, since nothing we do in this life will have ultimate consequences.

 

[lock2k]

I'm not following, actually. What do you mean? I can think up plenty of hypothetical scenarios where death in this world is not the end, but that alone would not lead to the existence of objective morality and meaning. I don't see how those can exist without a supreme creator that exists beyond our own reality.



I don't know what your belief system is, but how do you claim to know what is "right and wrong?" What is your basis for even having knowledge of anything? What are your presuppositions?

I don't mean this to be some kind of esoteric wankery. These are serious questions and part of what brought me to Christianity as the only paradigm that makes sense.

I don't have any belief system. I just exist and I know killing and stealing and doing harm to others is not cool so I don't do stupid shit to others that I don't want done to me as well. I like to help people but I don't have a voice in my head telling me to.

 

[lock2k]

The Lord is the only truth in this world that will satisfy that internal longing and bring internal peace. Humans are wired to worship and often we fill that hole with escapism, technology, porn, or anything else.

God only reveals himself through faith. The Bible is just a book when you are non believer but soon as you take that plunge and invite the Lord into your life it becomes so much more. Soon as you have established that relationship the more you study and learn about the world the more you see his hand in everything. From the expanse of the universe to the micro world of an Atom. We are all built in his image and part of this Universe.

I find it odd when people see all the rules of the universe and still deny the Lord. It is all right there in front of your eyes. Evil is in the world and the only way to defeat it is through the Lord.

I disagree that humans are wired to worship. I tried several times and I just can't feel or believe in anything. If there is a god gene I don't have it.

 

[Mickmrly]

"God has a plan", lol

Ultimately Christianity is about God's plan being for all those who seek and follow him to go to heaven after death. What is very annoying though is the amount of suffering that people go through before they can get to heaven. For those who are on the path of going to heaven, additional suffering is just a hindrance that is not required. In reality, suffering usually starts pushing people away from good paths and into destructive/self destructive paths instead.

Suffering from bad choices is one thing but suffering through no fault of your own, such as through cancer or some other health condition, is in my eyes a double whammy as not only do you suffer on earth but your suffering also pushes you into negative territory which can alter your chances of getting into heaven. It is also bad because when people do die needlessly, their families also go through suffering and that can put them on self destructive paths as well.

The best result of our life on earth is to get to heaven, but the amount of crap we have to go through before we are able to get there is pretty redundant I feel. Heaven is heaven and I personally think that if people can just live normal lives without crazy amounts of suffering and still get to heaven, everyone should be afforded that kind of life. Extra suffering doesn't get us to double heaven, so it is an unnecessary net negative I feel.

 

[Vyse]

"Life has no meaning because we die" just sounds like an excuse, and if you always make excuses you'll never take a leap of faith.

I have depression too but I didn't let it stop me from reading the Bible and going to church. I made new friends and felt part of a community that genuinely cares for one another, in addition to our shared religious beliefs. Now I feel safe in the knowledge that Jesus Christ will always be there for us because he recognizes none of us are perfect, and that he died for our sins so that we are able to be happy and find joy in life. I choose to believe and it helps me sleep better and gives me hope. I don't need a scientific explanation of the soul because I already have faith.

 

[FactsAreDead]

"Life has no meaning because we die" just sounds like an excuse, and if you always make excuses you'll never take a leap of faith.

I have depression too but I didn't let it stop me from reading the Bible and going to church. I made new friends and felt part of a community that genuinely cares for one another, in addition to our shared religious beliefs. Now I feel safe in the knowledge that Jesus Christ will always be there for us because he recognizes none of us are perfect, and that he died for our sins so that we are able to be happy and find joy in life. I choose to believe and it helps me sleep better and gives me hope. I don't need a scientific explanation of the soul because I already have faith.

Your "faith" sounds like an excuse to be part of a community that you feel comfortable within.

 

[Rock And Roll]

Your "faith" sounds like an excuse to be part of a community that you feel comfortable within.

That's probably because you are a highly pessimistic person who can't fathom the idea of people feeling happy and having purpose in life. And I'm not trying to be an ass, I was like that too when I was younger (a teenager). In my 20s, my attitude and outlook on life began to change and I started to realize there was nothing wrong with spirituality. I figured as long as no one was being hurt or discriminated against, there was nothing wrong with wanting to practice religion. Yet I still didn't fully believe myself. And my life was going great, I was happy with things and kept a positive view on things. Only recently though did I accept God into my life and I found out that my life wasn't as great as I thought it was before. The happiness and success I thought I knew before increased exponentially. Everything has significantly improved in my life which still kind of surprises me because I thought everything was great. It was, but it became so much better and meaningful after.

So I don't really blame you for feeling the way you do, because I was there once. Anyone who was happy must be faking it and anyone who believed in God was a fool who imagined things. Anything good that happened to them was coincidence and nothing else, and because I had a run of bad events in my life, well that must mean God doesn't exist because what type of God would allow bad things to happen. I also know that nothing really anyone in here says to you will change your mind (or the mind of others). Ultimately it's going to be your decision if you want to improve your life. You can start taking steps in the right direction to improve your outlook, but the only way you will truly fix things and find purpose is through God. It took me 2 decades to figure that out, 5+ years of your current outlook followed by 15+ years of modern "treat each other with respect" philosophy. God was the missing aspect in my life, and once I figured this out, I realized that my life could have been better years ago.

What's done is done and you can't go back in time for a redo. However I have the rest of my life ahead of me and I am now able to enjoy it to the fullest potential through a relationship with God.

Good luck to you and others, I hope you come around.

 

[FactsAreDead]

That's probably because you are a highly pessimistic person who can't fathom the idea of people feeling happy and having purpose in life.

We were just talking about god and his existence or not. I'm not saying people can't be happy for meeting other people. But it doesn't mean god exists.

 

[Joe T.]

Explain why a mighty powerful god would allow children and parents to suffer like this? It doesn't make sense.

A god isn't responsible for that, we are. We chose to suffer like this.

 

[lock2k]

A god isn't responsible for that, we are. We chose to suffer like this.

How? I don't remember choosing anything when I was born.

 

[Joe T.]

How? I don't remember choosing anything when I was born.

No one gets to choose if they're born either, our parents bear the responsibility for raising us right. We know a lot of what we're presented in this world is bad/risky for our health, but we consume it anyway and give it to our kids.

God isn't to blame for the choices we make.

 

[Rock And Roll]

We were just talking about god and his existence or not. I'm not saying people can't be happy for meeting other people. But it doesn't mean god exists.

Okay sure but I'm not sure what your original comment had to do with anything then? I don't want to speak for @Vyse but to me his post isn't so much about finding a community and having faith because of this, rather that it happened as a result.

On top of that, don't know why you would put faith in quotation marks. Usually that shows that someone questions the authenticity of a word or statement.

 

[lock2k]

No one gets to choose if they're born either, our parents bear the responsibility for raising us right. We know a lot of what we're presented in this world is bad/risky for our health, but we consume it anyway and give it to our kids.

God isn't to blame for the choices we make.

Who would choose to have their child be cancerous. This shit doesn't make sense at all.

 

[Mickmrly]

How? I don't remember choosing anything when I was born.

I think another way of putting it is that the world is full of joy and suffering, and our parents chose to bring us into the world knowing that. (I'm assuming most births are planned these days) While there are horrible things and needless suffering in this life, there are also joyful things and lots of love to be found as well.

While no one really chooses to be born, you do choose to continue to live and to try and survive. Our choice to live each day is ultimately a choice to try and live a good life despite the risks of suffering from either our own decisions, others decisions or acts of nature. (I'm lumping any spiritual acts into nature for simplicity)

 

[p_banned]

Explain why a mighty powerful god would allow children and parents to suffer like this? It doesn't make sense.

 

[Mickmrly]

Who would choose to have their child be cancerous. This shit doesn't make sense at all.

The parents would choose to have a child, with the cancer claiming the young child's life. We can try our best to care for others, including our children, but sometimes bad things will happen anyway despite our best efforts.

 

[lock2k]

The parents would choose to have a child, with the cancer claiming the young child's life. We can try our best to care for others, including our children, but sometimes bad things will happen anyway despite our best efforts.

Yeah, I get that, that's why I think life is just random chaos. It doesn't have order or rules. An all mighty powerful gold should be able to neutralize the cancer, but he chooses to let it happen and ruin the family. Why does this happen?

 

[p_banned]

Yeah, I get that, that's why I think life is just random chaos. It doesn't have order or rules. An all mighty powerful gold should be able to neutralize the cancer, but he chooses to let it happen and ruin the family. Why does this happen?

Maybe his death resulted in hundreds of others living by butterfly effect?

 

[lock2k]

Maybe his death resulted in hundreds of others living by butterfly effect?

I don't know... I've seen my fair share of suffering in this life, I haven't had any case like this but close family members had. My point is... why pray if you know you can't fix this kind of shit? It literally makes no sense to me. If I have to die tomorrow, I will die, I won't be able to stop it. No one is protecting me from dying, not even myself. I mean, there are dumb ways to die, but if I have to die I will not be able to avoid it, you know. It boggles my mind. I know no one saved my mom when she prayed her ass off ten years ago when she had level 4 cancer. She was the only believer in my household and it did not save her. The bottom line is... if you have cancer, you're most likely screwed.

 

[p_banned]

I don't know... I've seen my fair share of suffering in this life, I haven't had any case like this but close family members had. My point is... why pray if you know you can't fix this kind of shit? It literally makes no sense to me. If I have to die tomorrow, I will die, I won't be able to stop it. No one is protecting me from dying, not even myself. I mean, there are dumb ways to die, but if I have to die I will not be able to avoid it, you know. It boggles my mind. I know no one saved my mom when she prayed her ass off ten years ago when she had level 4 cancer. She was the only believer in my household and it did not save her. The bottom line is... if you have cancer, you're most likely screwed.

I was going in an overdose, and my boss called me cause she was suspecting something was wrong, she never called me in my entire life because that. I had a flash that I was heading into a car accident 30 seconds after told my friend to stop the car right now, we would have been death if not for now. Many things like that happened to me. I had skin cancer and survived with hundreds of scars, currently have marrow bone cancer and don't do much about it. Just enjoy life how you can and praying does work a bit. There is the placebo effect at play.

A randomized, blinded study of the impact of intercessory prayer on spiritual well-being in patients with cancer - PubMed

Participants with cancer whom the research team randomly allocated to the experimental group to receive remote intercessory prayer showed small but significant improvements in spiritual well-being.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Vyse]

Your "faith" sounds like an excuse to be part of a community that you feel comfortable within.

I would think that someone who is scared of death to the point where it depresses them would be open to reading the Bible and developing a relationship with Jesus Christ, so that you need not worry about death and continue to feel His love even when you are alone.

My faith is pretty resolute, thank you. I didn't wait for some AI program to be able to overcome my fear of speaking to people. I let myself be vulnerable, put myself in situations where I met new people and didn't worry if they were going to laugh at my stuttering, because 99% of the time no one really does anyway. No one who comes to church is perfect and no one will judge you. We are all hurting in some way and seek his salvation.

I lost my grandfather to lung cancer and it was one of the things that pushed me to believe in God, not to turn away from it. There's comfort in knowing that I will see him again in Heaven. I think if more people accepted Jesus into their hearts, the world would be a better place.

"For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith." (Romans 1:17)

 

[lock2k]

What if you don't really fear death and you don't believe in the afterlife and you are fine with it? That's my case.

 

[p_banned]

What if you don't really fear death and you don't believe in the afterlife and you are fine with it? That's my case.

Mazel Tov.

 

[FactsAreDead]

I would think that someone who is scared of death to the point where it depresses them would be open to reading the Bible and developing a relationship with Jesus Christ, so that you need not worry about death and continue to feel His love even when you are alone.

My faith is pretty resolute, thank you. I didn't wait for some AI program to be able to overcome my fear of speaking to people. I let myself be vulnerable, put myself in situations where I met new people and didn't worry if they were going to laugh at my stuttering, because 99% of the time no one really does anyway. No one who comes to church is perfect and no one will judge you. We are all hurting in some way and seek his salvation.

I lost my grandfather to lung cancer and it was one of the things that pushed me to believe in God, not to turn away from it. There's comfort in knowing that I will see him again in Heaven. I think if more people accepted Jesus into their hearts, the world would be a better place.

"For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith." (Romans 1:17)

First of all, thanks for the personal insults, but that's to be expected here, I guess.

Secondly, I'm not scared of death, I'm scared of the realization of non-existence after death. The logical consequence of that gives me depression. And going to church won't change that, at best it would make me forget about it, just like most people pretend to not bother about their own end by doing shit. It doesn't change the FACT that death most likely is the ultimate end and I cannot lie to myself that it's not coming.

If you mean going to church as in finding faith, I cannot do that. I'm too self-aware, faith requires true belief, it's not something you can fake. I'm honestly jealous of true believers, because as you said, having a firm belief takes away the fear of post-death. But faith is not something you can just have. Guess it'd take a real miracle for me to start believing. Not in some Christian god, though, because that is definitely nonsense, considering you yourself would have a different faith if you had been born elsewhere. I do not believe for one second that Christianity happens to be "correct" and all the other religions are wrong. A higher being might exist, though.

 

[Zefah]

I don't have any belief system.

You may not realize it, but you do. Everyone does. You seriously would not be able to make any decisions or make sense of the world without one.

I just exist and I know killing and stealing and doing harm to others is not cool so I don't do stupid shit to others that I don't want done to me as well.

That's part of your belief system. The problem is that you don't really have any justification for any of it that goes beyond your subjective preferences.

I like to help people but I don't have a voice in my head telling me to.

Neither do Christians.

Yeah, I get that, that's why I think life is just random chaos. It doesn't have order or rules. An all mighty powerful gold should be able to neutralize the cancer, but he chooses to let it happen and ruin the family. Why does this happen?

It's because you're focused only on this life and worldly things that you can't imagine why something like this may be allowed to happen. I'm repeating my last post, but it's well within reason to believe that God uses these terrible events to draw humanity closer to Him and to share in His eternal life. If we do indeed have eternal life with God, then how we meet our end in this world seems rather unimportant.

At the same time, if you think there is just random chaos and there are no rules and this life is all there is or ever will be. Why even care who lives or dies or really about anything at all? It's all meaningless anyway in such a worldview.

 

[lock2k]

You may not realize it, but you do. Everyone does. You seriously would not be able to make any decisions or make sense of the world without one.



That's part of your belief system. The problem is that you don't really have any justification for any of it that goes beyond your subjective preferences.



Neither do Christians.



It's because you're focused only on this life and worldly things that you can't imagine why something like this may be allowed to happen. I'm repeating my last post, but it's well within reason to believe that God uses these terrible events to draw humanity closer to Him and to share in His eternal life. If we do indeed have eternal life with God, then how we meet our end in this world seems rather unimportant.

At the same time, if you think there is just random chaos and there are no rules and this life is all there is or ever will be. Why even care who lives or dies or really about anything at all? It's all meaningless anyway in such a worldview.

If god uses terrible events to draw humanity closer to him, fuck him, I don't want anything to do with him and I reject him thorougly. I'd rather live with the notion that life is chaotic and random, it's way more comforting this way. In my point of view, my life means something because I can feel things and enjoy things, but I don't think there's a plan for anything - we are the product of billions of years of evolution of the universe and we are probably the first civilization ever (if the fermi paradox is right) by pure chance. I do not need a god and an afterlife to have meaning. I have nature, I have my family, my interactions with animals and with bodies of water (which is the holiest element ever to me).

I really believe I only have this life, there's nothing after, I'll never see my mother again and any of the people I met that died, and I'm fine with it. Life if finite and I cherish the good stuff I had with them. I think religion came from the human fear of death and it's a way to cope with it. I fear losing people, but I do not fear dying. I'll just go back to the nature cycle and contribute to it in some way when I disintegrate. Life may be intelligently designed, but it surely wasn't by some bearded idiot who judges people and has stupid rules.

 

[Mickmrly]

First of all, thanks for the personal insults, but that's to be expected here, I guess.

Secondly, I'm not scared of death, I'm scared of the realization of non-existence after death. The logical consequence of that gives me depression. And going to church won't change that, at best it would make me forget about it, just like most people pretend to not bother about their own end by doing shit. It doesn't change the FACT that death most likely is the ultimate end and I cannot lie to myself that it's not coming.

If you mean going to church as in finding faith, I cannot do that. I'm too self-aware, faith requires true belief, it's not something you can fake. I'm honestly jealous of true believers, because as you said, having a firm belief takes away the fear of post-death. But faith is not something you can just have. Guess it'd take a real miracle for me to start believing. Not in some Christian god, though, because that is definitely nonsense, considering you yourself would have a different faith if you had been born elsewhere. I do not believe for one second that Christianity happens to be "correct" and all the other religions are wrong. A higher being might exist, though.

Having a firm belief is not really that easy of true believers. God doesn't usually provide dreams where he says you are guaranteed a place in heaven, so there is always some anxiety about what happens after death.
I for one would enjoy it if we were all given dreams/visions at regular times saying things like if we are still on track for heaven, which of our loved ones have made it there, and what people are doing there at this time.

 

[DonDonDonPata]

I would encourage anyone who has trouble with the "faith" side of religion to examine the historical and logical side of religion, which has been a valid avenue for many millions over the centuries. It is a modern, naive, arrogant preconception that religion can only be grappled by using "blind faith" and discarding all rationale, as if countless other freethinkers haven't also knelt at Christ's cross in the past. God made our minds, too.

For me, the upward improvement of history is evidence of some guiding hand, since Nature has no benevolence and is actually rather uncaring. The historical record of the Christian church and its testimonies -- the Bible itself is two large Testaments -- can be taken as evidence that something is going on beyond just wishful thinking and blind faith.

The materialistic viewpoint is ancient and has always resulted in nihilism and collapse, always.

 

[synchronicity]

First of all, thanks for the personal insults, but that's to be expected here, I guess.

Secondly, I'm not scared of death, I'm scared of the realization of non-existence after death. The logical consequence of that gives me depression.

The self is an illusion in the first place. There is nothing to be lost upon "death", other than an idea. The mind emerges and constructs a "person" via environmental conditioning through experiences it undergoes. Do you remember things prior to age 4 or 5, other than possible flashes of imagery? There is nothing there because, despite the presence of a "body", there was no ego, no person at all. It was all pure, uncategorized experience with no context or emergent meaning. There was no point of reference (no ego). Eventually, an idea of a self emerged, but make no mistake, it is *only* an idea. *All* language and thought is fiction. *all* The symbols of thought are *not* reality, whether language or images. This abstraction may point to reality, but thoughts can never *be* reality. The thought, "I am FactAreDead" (along with all associated factors) is not real. Your supposed existence as an independent entity has always been imaginary.

Consider your experience in life. When you go to sleep at night and are in a non-dreaming state, where has "FactsAreDead" gone? There is no awareness of this "person" you (the waking mind) claims to be. He is, for all practical purposes, dead. Neither is there a world to which this entity belongs. It has all vanished. Upon waking again, the mind discovers (re-imagines) this idea, and this cycle repeats continuously. "You" die everyday, and you are not troubled by this dissolution of self. Why should it trouble you at death? The only thing that is lost is the idea of the person, an idea that has always been a work of fiction. The fear comes from the mistaken belief in a *fixed* entity - this idea that their is a static being whom can be lost. Look at an old photo album. Who is the image of? It doesn't look like the "you" of today. So, are you an ever-changing entity or a fixed entity? All is transient. This "immutable" self of the mind is contradicted upon practical inspection. You cannot die because you never existed in the first place. (outside of thought)

 

[p_banned]

First of all, thanks for the personal insults, but that's to be expected here, I guess.

Secondly, I'm not scared of death, I'm scared of the realization of non-existence after death. The logical consequence of that gives me depression. And going to church won't change that, at best it would make me forget about it, just like most people pretend to not bother about their own end by doing shit. It doesn't change the FACT that death most likely is the ultimate end and I cannot lie to myself that it's not coming.

If you mean going to church as in finding faith, I cannot do that. I'm too self-aware, faith requires true belief, it's not something you can fake. I'm honestly jealous of true believers, because as you said, having a firm belief takes away the fear of post-death. But faith is not something you can just have. Guess it'd take a real miracle for me to start believing. Not in some Christian god, though, because that is definitely nonsense, considering you yourself would have a different faith if you had been born elsewhere. I do not believe for one second that Christianity happens to be "correct" and all the other religions are wrong. A higher being might exist, though.

This is the source of my existential and chronic anxiety and why I need drugs to cope cause I go into deep panic mode. My other stress is civilization collapse.

I've read many religious books and having plain faith goes against my personality.

 

[Zefah]

If god uses terrible events to draw humanity closer to him, fuck him, I don't want anything to do with him and I reject him thorougly.

I really don't think you are properly thinking this through. If by allowing (which is really just enabling our free will) terrible things to happen actually ends up bringing those who suffer closer to God and positions them better for the eternal life that is to come after this world, then how could that even be seen as a bad thing? Again, if eternal life for those who freely come to God is what awaits us, any suffering in this world will be rather insignificant in comparison.

Even setting that aside (and I know you don't believe, but humor me), if God is real and truly is the creator of all that exists and ever will exist, and is the standard against which all is measured, then we are in no place to judge anything that He does or decides to do. We can of course reject Him like you choose to do, but that seems like an extremely foolish decision if he is real.

I'd rather live with the notion that life is chaotic and random, it's way more comforting this way. In my point of view, my life means something because I can feel things and enjoy things, but I don't think there's a plan for anything - we are the product of billions of years of evolution of the universe and we are probably the first civilization ever (if the fermi paradox is right) by pure chance. I do not need a god and an afterlife to have meaning. I have nature, I have my family, my interactions with animals and with bodies of water (which is the holiest element ever to me).

OK, but if things are as you say, surely you recognize that there can not be any objective meaning or morality. At that point it all just comes down to personal sensory preferences and people clearly are not on the same page. Someone may find great meaning in slaughtering and subjugating others and there's really no grounds from which to condemn such behavior since it's all random chaos and nothing matters anyway. Just comes down to whoever has the power and the will to wield it against others.

I really believe I only have this life, there's nothing after, I'll never see my mother again and any of the people I met that died, and I'm fine with it. Life if finite and I cherish the good stuff I had with them. I think religion came from the human fear of death and it's a way to cope with it. I fear losing people, but I do not fear dying. I'll just go back to the nature cycle and contribute to it in some way when I disintegrate. Life may be intelligently designed, but it surely wasn't by some bearded idiot who judges people and has stupid rules.

Why do you fear losing people? Why do you care about anything at all? In your paradigm, you just mindlessly try to maximize sensory pleasures for as long as possible, but nothing will remain of you or anyone else if you what you believe is true. It's all meaningless.

 

[lock2k]

I really don't think you are properly thinking this through. If by allowing (which is really just enabling our free will) terrible things to happen actually ends up bringing those who suffer closer to God and positions them better for the eternal life that is to come after this world, then how could that even be seen as a bad thing? Again, if eternal life for those who freely come to God is what awaits us, any suffering in this world will be rather insignificant in comparison.

Even setting that aside (and I know you don't believe, but humor me), if God is real and truly is the creator of all that exists and ever will exist, and is the standard against which all is measured, then we are in no place to judge anything that He does or decides to do. We can of course reject Him like you choose to do, but that seems like an extremely foolish decision if he is real.



OK, but if things are as you say, surely you recognize that there can not be any objective meaning or morality. At that point it all just comes down to personal sensory preferences and people clearly are not on the same page. Someone may find great meaning in slaughtering and subjugating others and there's really no grounds from which to condemn such behavior since it's all random chaos and nothing matters anyway. Just comes down to whoever has the power and the will to wield it against others.



Why do you fear losing people? Why do you care about anything at all? In your paradigm, you just mindlessly try to maximize sensory pleasures for as long as possible, but nothing will remain of you or anyone else if you what you believe is true. It's all meaningless.

No one ever proved eternal life exists. And frankly, I'm not interested, imagine living eternally... it would be really boring. Having limited time motivates me to make the best out of my life and make my goals come true. If a dominant being has to allow free will, it isn't free at all. I am completely free. I do not need to go to church and waste time on Sundays, and I can do whatever I want on those days. Imagine wasting Sunday on church and dying on Monday when I could have had a better time playing videogames, hanging out with my family or doing anything else I actually enjoy.

And if God is real... which version is the real one? Buddha? Whatever they believe in Shintoism? The Norse gods? The Greek ones? Hindu half-animal-half-people gods? Or the Abrahamic one? Maybe the Sun, like Egypt thought. I think they are all myths and ways to cope with our death and finite existence.

I choose to be a good person and not harm people but I don't believe in hell, karma, demons, or judgment after death, so, I don't even think Hitler had anything coming to him. He was evil af and he died and nothing happened to him. He just harmed a shit ton of people and was a scumbag, but he did not face divine justice, he was just a predator. And all killers have stupid lives that they waste doing this kind of stuff, but sometimes crime is worth it, because divine justice is a myth. No one ever proved anyone burns in hell or anything like that. Nature has wicked shit all the time and I doubt any animal goes to hell for being a dick to another animal while slaughtering them.

Losing people is not cool, you miss them, it's simple as that. I don't need an imaginary friend in the sky to make me have feelings. Feelings are chemical. I'm a product of nature, a chemical being, that's how I'm able to feel things. This year marks 10 years I lost my mother and I know I will never see her again. I miss her but I'm comfortable with this. We had 30 years together and I cherish those years but I'm not hoping on dying and having a barbecue with her after death. It won't happen. We will both be dust.

 

[FactsAreDead]

The self is an illusion in the first place.

And you know that HOW? Because you word it like it's fact. Waiting.

 

[FactsAreDead]

This is the source of my existential and chronic anxiety and why I need drugs to cope cause I go into deep panic mode. My other stress is civilization collapse.

I've read many religious books and having plain faith goes against my personality.

Dito, minus the drugs (yet).

My coping mechanism is to come up with LOGICAL explanations of how there could be an existence post-death. Ironically, the consequence of my logic is that a god-like entity DOES exist. Just not a biblical god. Which is dumb to begin with, because all the people in this thread claiming to believe in "god" would belief in something differently had they been born elsewhere in the world.

 

[Zefah]

Dito, minus the drugs (yet).

My coping mechanism is to come up with LOGICAL explanations of how there could be an existence post-death. Ironically, the consequence of my logic is that a god-like entity DOES exist. Just not a biblical god.

You only have to accept that this is not the extent of "existence" or the only possible plane of reality for post-death existence to not be illogical. If you can accept the idea of a soul or anything transcendent or metaphysical, then it's not a large leap, in my opinion.

If you don't accept anything metaphysical, then you're really in trouble, because you can't even account for logic itself or the ability to "know" anything at that point.

Which is dumb to begin with, because all the people in this thread claiming to believe in "god" would belief in something differently had they been born elsewhere in the world.

I don't see how that is a good argument. If it's true, it's true. It doesn't matter if you grew up in an environment where you weren't taught about it.

If anything, the impressive global spread of Christianity and its universal message would attest to its truth.

 

[Hinedorf]

I've always been jealous of spiritual people because I just don't get it. I was raised by 2 hippy parents that didn't believe in anything, my mother was beaten by nuns and because of that always kept me away from that environment despite her family being very hardcore Catholic

My entire life I've been judged and mistreated by religious people that has since tainted my view on anybody who is religious. I can remember as a very little kid being told by a mother of the neighbors children that because my family didn't go to church I wasn't allowed to play with their children and she closed the door on my face. I was like 7 years old when this happened and the imprint it left on me regarding religion never changed.

I've studied world religions in college and it was one of my favorite classes as the stories that are told are amazing but......they're just stories...

I like comic books and sci fi, but I don't believe any of it is real. Religion isn't real either and there's nothing anybody can do to convince me otherwise.

I believe in miracles, I believe in spirituality, I don't believe in Gods.

 

[FactsAreDead]

I don't see how that is a good argument. If it's true, it's true. It doesn't matter if you grew up in an environment where you weren't taught about it.

If anything, the impressive global spread of Christianity and its universal message would attest to its truth.

Other religions have global spread, too. And it shouldn't matter which religion has the most spread, "if it's true, it's true", right?

And yet, had you been born in Turkey, you'd believe in Allah. Had you been born in India, you'd believe in Buddha. As a Greek, you'd believe in Zeus. And then there's a shit ton of lesser known religions you also could have been born to. The only reason you believe in the Christian god is because you've been born where you were born.

Imagine I was a muslim. How'd you make your argment that your god is the true one and mine is made up?

 

[synchronicity]

And you know that HOW? Because you word it like it's fact. Waiting.

I'll just ask you again, when the mind is in a state of abeyance, where is FactsAreDead? If you can provide an answer relative to firsthand experience and not hearsay...

 

[Zefah]

Other religions have global spread, too. And it shouldn't matter which religion has the most spread, "if it's true, it's true", right?

And yet, had you been born in Turkey, you'd believe in Allah. Had you been born in India, you'd believe in Buddha. As a Greek, you'd believe in Zeus. And then there's a shit ton of lesser known religions you also could have been born to. The only reason you believe in the Christian god is because you've been born where you were born.

I agree that if something is true, then it's true, so it doesn't matter if you were taught something else or don't believe it. Of course, to agree with this you kind of have to believe in objective truth in the first place, which becomes difficult if you don't believe in the metaphysical.

Anyway, it's clearly not even true that your environment determines what you believe as evidenced by people who convert from other religions or even Atheism.

Imagine I was a muslim. How'd you make your argment that your god is the true one and mine is made up?

There are a variety of angles, but for a muslim, I would probably take a historical angle and also focus on the Old Testament prophecies. I don't expect I would have great success with most people, of course.