[Nikana]

You disapprove of our opinions?

Nah. You're entitled to whatever you wanna believe.

 

[Nikana]

Everything now is riding on Stafield being as big as Skyrim, if they don't get that one right they might as well leave the console business because none of the other games they have on the way is going to move the needle, MS has already showed their hand by announcing everything years ago.

Halo is dead, Gears is not nearly as relevant as it was in the 360 days, Forza has been milked dry... Redfall, Fable, Perfect Dark, Avowed, Hellblade, none of that has any shot at changing that status quo.

 

[DonDonDonPata]

Step 1 "hey fans, get HYPED, you cannot even fathom how many AAA games we'll be giving to you for One Dollar!!1!"

Step 2 "hey fans, get HYPED, those AAA games arrive Soon™ but please enjoy these not-AAA games we'll be giving you for One Dollar!!1!"

Step 3 "hey fans, we know you're HYPED, but the AAA are taking longer than we thought but aren't you glad to only be paying One Dollar!?!"

Step 4 "hey fans, in order to afford the AAA games we promised get HYPED for our new business model centering on MOBILE"

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Xbox chasing mobile
Sony going VR
Nintendo going handheld

None of these statements describe the actual pivot. Xbox is trying to disrupt the market with Gamepass Ultimate (the U is important here because it includes streaming). Playstation is expanding via multiplatform and GaaS. VR is only a small side-quest for them. Nintendo is still mostly a classic console gaming company, although they also started going more towards online and digital.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

I'd love MS to give their studios the chance to create quirky little side projects.
Like "Costume Quest" was from Double fine.

Something you can have fun playing 4 to 8 hours and be done with it.

If Gamepass could achieve one good thing, that would it be.

 

[Night Sky]

None of these statements describe the actual pivot. Xbox is trying to disrupt the market with Gamepass Ultimate (the U is important here because it includes streaming). Playstation is expanding via multiplatform and GaaS. VR is only a small side-quest for them. Nintendo is still mostly a classic console gaming company, although they also started going more towards online and digital.

That's because only Xbox are looking to leave the console industry as their main source and focus. PC and consoles will always be revenue streams for Xbox but Mobile offers them everything MS need as a company.

Subscriptions - Gamepass for the gaming, office 365 for business.
Cloud-based programs - Using Azure to take market-share from Amazon
A digital storefront - Xbox/Gamepass will be a digital storefront on Mobiles, PC and Smart TVs.

Microsoft purchased ABK for King to help them break into the Mobile market.

Sony aren't going GAAS or Multiplatform. They're killing two birds with one stone by launching on PC; expand their user base AND gaining free marketing for sequels of their biggest games. The timing of releases for games like Horizon and GOW aren't a coincidence. They release these games as a marketing push for the sequels.

VR isn't a side-quest, it is Sony laying the foundations for future technologies that will become a mainstay in the industry. Just like:

PS1 - First console to use CD's after Nintendo snubbed them
PS2 - First console to include DVD player. Also included Rumble in the DS. (They slept on HDD and online gaming and MS gave them a wake-up call)
PS3 - First (technically second) console to offer all-in-one entertainment - Blu-ray drive, BC, Internet. The Phillips/Sony CDi offered the same features in 1990 but it was too early. IIRC there were some limited Internet options on the Dreamcast as well
PS4 - First console to offer VR
PS5 - First console to be designed for VR.

Sony haven't changed their strategy in 25+ years. What they do works for them.

As for Nintendo, well, they just do what the hell they want to do and sometimes it works; NES, SNES, Wii, Gameboy, DS and sometimes it doesn't; GameCube, Wii U, 2DS, N64 (sorry Nintendo fans, the N64 could have been more and didn't touch the awesomeness of the Dreamcast). Nintendo have done what they've done since 1889 and they're still around for good reason. They dominate the handheld market and there's nothing to suggest that will change anytime soon. I've no doubt they will enter the VR market when VR is affordable and less resource hungry.

TL;DR - MS are moving to expand their revenue streams while achieving the goal Peter Moore set out in 2006 "1 billion gamers". Meanwhile, Sony gunna Sony and Nintendo gunna Nintendo. Sony and Nintendo have decades and centuries of experience respectively doing what they know works. Microsoft have had 10 years of success (2001 - 2011) and haven't managed to repeat it since.

 

[WesternBlood]

I'd love MS to give their studios the chance to create quirky little side projects.
Like "Costume Quest" was from Double fine.

Something you can have fun playing 4 to 8 hours and be done with it.

If Gamepass could achieve one good thing, that would it be.

Agree with Summer of Arcade style games, but promoting Indie games with releases throughout the year. Some of the most fun I have had involves these types of games.

I will never get Gamepass, however. I don't like subscription anything, but it would bolster its appeal for others.

 

[Grinchy]

Step 1 "hey fans, get HYPED, you cannot even fathom how many AAA games we'll be giving to you for One Dollar!!1!"

Step 2 "hey fans, get HYPED, those AAA games arrive Soon™ but please enjoy these not-AAA games we'll be giving you for One Dollar!!1!"

Step 3 "hey fans, we know you're HYPED, but the AAA are taking longer than we thought but aren't you glad to only be paying One Dollar!?!"

Step 4 "hey fans, in order to afford the AAA games we promised get HYPED for our new business model centering on MOBILE"

Well I'm now hyped. I can't wait for the flappy bird clone using the girl from Gears of War where she doesn't avoid pipes, but male gaze.

 

[Zog]

Not sure what folks are getting up in arms over. Phil is spiting the basic truth. GLOBALLY mobile is growing and consoles are stagnating. If MS wants to be competitive GLOBALLY they will need to embrace this very real trend. Xbox has essentially no mobile presence, having one would be good. End of story.

Next on action news at 11, wood the deadly kindling. Do you have fire hazards growing your back yard?

...because we don't like mtx-ridden mobile gaming? Well, at least you aren't 'not sure what folks are getting up in arms over' anymore.

 

[DonDonDonPata]

Well I'm now hyped. I can't wait for the flappy bird clone using the girl from Gears of War where she doesn't avoid pipes, but male gaze.

but wait. would you be even MORE HYEPD if I told you this news while wearing a t-shirt of an indie game developer?!

 

[Grinchy]

but wait. would you be even MORE HYEPD if I told you this news while wearing a t-shirt of an indie game developer?!

That sorta ruined my hype, because I had already imagined you were doing that and now I know you weren't

 

[Zog]

Well, Nintendo... is going to Nintendo. They'll just throw some weird ass stuff out there.

Didn't they do mobile games and did a bunch of money off of it?

I don't think mobile games worked well for Nintendo. It's weird, Nintendo has always made their first party IP's exclusive (since the NES and except that bad Philips deal) to their own hardware, them putting major IP's on mobile is akin to them putting them on Playstation.

 

[regawdless]

I don't think mobile games worked well for Nintendo.

If we only take into account revenue, it's working out pretty damn well.

Nintendo mobile revenue is inching close to the $2bn mark

Nintendo mobile revenue sits at roughly $1.8 billion, with its top earner in the market being Fire Emblem Heroes, which is responsible for nearly $1bn

www.pockettactics.com

 

[Zog]

If we only take into account revenue, it's working out pretty damn well.

Nintendo mobile revenue is inching close to the $2bn mark

Nintendo mobile revenue sits at roughly $1.8 billion, with its top earner in the market being Fire Emblem Heroes, which is responsible for nearly $1bn

www.pockettactics.com

Well revenue is the important part I guess. Was most of that money made from mtx's?

 

[regawdless]

Well revenue is the important part I guess. Was most of that money made from mtx's?

It's 2bn in revenue since they entered the mobile space, so it's a span of six years. They had different games that also had some mtx.

 

[Snes nes]

Xbox chasing mobile
Sony going VR
Nintendo going handheld

All three are diversifying in their own way. Xbox is the exception as it is moving away from its core tenants and market quicker than the other two. They're also backing themselves into a corner that only has one way out

nintendos handhelds have always been a strong suit of theirs but thats also because they have little competition in that area. Steam deck kinda counts but not really.

 

[Zog]

It's 2bn in revenue since they entered the mobile space, so it's a span of six years. They had different games that also had some mtx.

So you don't know? I mean, most of them were F2P right, only Super Mario Run had that one time price?

 

[regawdless]

So you don't know?

I know that at least some of their games had mtx, but I don't know the split in revenue.

 

[Zog]

Mobile success is like giving drugs to a company and hoping that they don't get addicted. Of course they will and then the console and PC players will suffer. Why oh why wouldn't we be up in arms about it?

 

[DonDonDonPata]

Mobile success is like giving drugs to a company and hoping that they don't get addicted. Of course they will and then the console and PC players will suffer. Why oh why wouldn't we be up in arms about it?

Windows gamers tried to warn about Microsoft's habit but the Xbots didn't want to listen, they were flyin high in the 360 era and thought it would last forever

 

[Zog]

Windows gamers tried to warn about Microsoft's habit but the Xbots didn't want to listen, they were flyin high in the 360 era and thought it would last forever

Even now though, that Microsoft is telling us that they are going to chase mobile there are people who are like 'I don't understand why people are up in arm over it'. LOL As if the customer is supposed to put the company's bottom line above their own interests. That's not how it's supposed to work.

You wanna know why we have $70 (thar's just the starting price), broken games at launch that take 5 years to develop? It's because customers 'understand'.

 

[DonDonDonPata]

Even now though, that Microsoft is telling us that they are going to chase mobile there are people who are like 'I don't understand why people are up in arm over it'. LOL As if the customer is supposed to put the company's bottom line above their own interests.

You wanna know why we have $70 (thar's just the starting price), broken games at launch that take 5 years to develop? It's because customers 'understand'.

what's worse is people who embrace it in the name of expanding/enriching The Brand (this isn't only true for Xbox fanlets). There are people who are (genuinely?) happy that Xbox expands to PC, that Xbox expands to mobile, as long as more Game Pass people sign up to keep the whole thing going. I think -- conscious or not -- the fanbase is trying to ride the rocket of new signups to somehow escape the collapse of the brand "what's good for the Xbox is good for the gander" / "if i keep buying japanese hD remakes maybe they'll make another game in the franchise!!" sort of mentality.

When I see that kind of brand loyalty I just think in my head how many Limited Edition Monster cans does this guy have lined up underneath his katana?

 

[Arkam]

...because we don't like mtx-ridden mobile gaming? Well, at least you aren't 'not sure what folks are getting up in arms over' anymore.

MTX is not the problem. I think MTX can be very good. What the problem is when a game is simply a vehicle for MTX.

On Tiger Woods PGA Tour we implemented MTX in (I think) '10. We let players buy with real money the items available in the pro shop. Items that they could unlock through normal play. We did not change the unlock time from the previous year. We just gave people an option time vs dollar.

There are tons of games filled with MTX done right. And yes there are a ton that are predatory in nature. No need to cast them all in one light. And even less helpful to lump in Mobile (the platform).

 

[Hostile_18]

Hmm "Were desperate enough we need the mobile market"... while spending billions and billions on publishers. Yeah, ok Phil.

 

[Nicktendo]

I know that at least some of their games had mtx, but I don't know the split in revenue.

Fire Emblem was the only one that was a "success" because it brought in the whales and made millions.

The others were all failures including Mario Kart Tour, which didn't meet the lofty expectations Nintendo set for it, and it was ultimately the catalyst in them stepping back from mobile.

 

[Zog]

what's worse is people who embrace it in the name of expanding/enriching The Brand (this isn't only true for Xbox fanlets). There are people who are (genuinely?) happy that Xbox expands to PC, that Xbox expands to mobile, as long as more Game Pass people sign up to keep the whole thing going. I think -- conscious or not -- the fanbase is trying to ride the rocket of new signups to somehow escape the collapse of the brand "what's good for the Xbox is good for the gander" / "if i keep buying japanese hD remakes maybe they'll make another game in the franchise!!" sort of mentality.

When I see that kind of brand loyalty I just think in my head how many Limited Edition Monster cans does this guy have lined up underneath his katana?

Game consumers are the most supportive customers I have ever seen, to a fault. They will justify any nonsense in the name of helping the company. How many times have we seen 'the mtx's are only cosmetic' or 'development costs are going up so mtx's are justified'? We are our own worst enemy. Customers should be pushing back against price increases, scummy tactics, ridiculous development cycles and broken games that require a day one patch.

We have taught companies that today's pushback will eventually be justified. For example, remember when on disc dlc was considered a bad thing? Now they openly sell the digital deluxe edition (which includes all the shit that was ready at launch and should have been in the game) with no pushback at all. I remember when day one patches were frowned upon, now it happens with almost every game. Still customers can't wait for the pre-order to go live so they can give the company an interest free loan.

 

[Zog]

MTX is not the problem. I think MTX can be very good. What the problem is when a game is simply a vehicle for MTX.

Many games are designed around MTX's now that they have tasted the success from the whales. On console and PC, you can see that in the Digital Deluxe editions, they are selling you mtx's from day one (actually, before day one if you pre-order). This shit is baked into the design.

Who knew that horse armor would balloon into this? Some of us did.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Sony aren't going GAAS or Multiplatform.

But they are. They have 12 GaaS-type games in development. Most of these games are gonna be multiplatform from day one. Soon enough even their singleplayer games will become day one multiplatform.

VR isn't a side-quest, it is Sony laying the foundations for future technologies that will become a mainstay in the industry.

VR is always gonna be niche. I'd be surprised if PSVR2 sells more than 5m.

Sony haven't changed their strategy in 25+ years. What they do works for them.

I'd argue they have changed it recently. Try telling a Sony fan five years ago that most if not all of the games are gonna come out on PC. Basically nobody would've believed it. And GaaS focus is the next step.

Microsoft have had 10 years of success (2001 - 2011) and haven't managed to repeat it since.

Idk about that, Xbox is doing better than ever according to their numbers.

 

[Nikana]

That's because only Xbox are looking to leave the console industry as their main source and focus. PC and consoles will always be revenue streams for Xbox but Mobile offers them everything MS need as a company.

Subscriptions - Gamepass for the gaming, office 365 for business.
Cloud-based programs - Using Azure to take market-share from Amazon
A digital storefront - Xbox/Gamepass will be a digital storefront on Mobiles, PC and Smart TVs.

Microsoft purchased ABK for King to help them break into the Mobile market.

Sony aren't going GAAS or Multiplatform. They're killing two birds with one stone by launching on PC; expand their user base AND gaining free marketing for sequels of their biggest games. The timing of releases for games like Horizon and GOW aren't a coincidence. They release these games as a marketing push for the sequels.

VR isn't a side-quest, it is Sony laying the foundations for future technologies that will become a mainstay in the industry. Just like:

PS1 - First console to use CD's after Nintendo snubbed them
PS2 - First console to include DVD player. Also included Rumble in the DS. (They slept on HDD and online gaming and MS gave them a wake-up call)
PS3 - First (technically second) console to offer all-in-one entertainment - Blu-ray drive, BC, Internet. The Phillips/Sony CDi offered the same features in 1990 but it was too early. IIRC there were some limited Internet options on the Dreamcast as well
PS4 - First console to offer VR
PS5 - First console to be designed for VR.

Sony haven't changed their strategy in 25+ years. What they do works for them.

As for Nintendo, well, they just do what the hell they want to do and sometimes it works; NES, SNES, Wii, Gameboy, DS and sometimes it doesn't; GameCube, Wii U, 2DS, N64 (sorry Nintendo fans, the N64 could have been more and didn't touch the awesomeness of the Dreamcast). Nintendo have done what they've done since 1889 and they're still around for good reason. They dominate the handheld market and there's nothing to suggest that will change anytime soon. I've no doubt they will enter the VR market when VR is affordable and less resource hungry.

TL;DR - MS are moving to expand their revenue streams while achieving the goal Peter Moore set out in 2006 "1 billion gamers". Meanwhile, Sony gunna Sony and Nintendo gunna Nintendo. Sony and Nintendo have decades and centuries of experience respectively doing what they know works. Microsoft have had 10 years of success (2001 - 2011) and haven't managed to repeat it since.

In all seriousness if you think Sony hasn't chnaged the strategy in 25+ years you should do more research.

 

[Zog]

Sony:

- Hey, let's name our new console the same name that we were going to use for the Nintendo project. We'll remove the space between the words for legal reasons though.
- Let's make our controller as close to the SNES controller as legally possible. Too bad we can't have that awesome d-pad though.
- That analog thing on the N64 controller is cool, let's do that.
- Shaking controller? Let's copy that.
- Look at Nintendo making bank on the Game Boy line, let's do that too.
- Nintendo has motion controls. We should do that too

Probably more examples of Sony being Sony that I forgot.

Playstation Plus was innovative though, before they ruined it.
Free online gaming was nice, before they followed Microsoft's lead and ruined that too.
VR should be more popular than it is but maybe it just sucks, I have never been able to afford to try it.

 

[MScarpa]

Everything now is riding on Stafield being as big as Skyrim, if they don't get that one right they might as well leave the console business because none of the other games they have on the way is going to move the needle, MS has already showed their hand by announcing everything years ago.

Halo is dead, Gears is not nearly as relevant as it was in the 360 days, Forza has been milked dry... Redfall, Fable, Perfect Dark, Avowed, Hellblade, none of that has any shot at changing that status quo.

Like the other gentleman said. You're extremely biased but lucky for us though, nobody from MS listens to you. With that said MS will be fine, they aren't going anywhere, despite what you want to happen. Show me on the doll where MS hurt you.

 

[Nobody]

Sony:

- Hey, let's name our new console the same name that we were going to use for the Nintendo project. We'll remove the space between the words for legal reasons though.
- Let's make our controller as close to the SNES controller as legally possible. Too bad we can't have that awesome d-pad though.
- That analog thing on the N64 controller is cool, let's do that.
- Shaking controller? Let's copy that.
- Look at Nintendo making bank on the Game Boy line, let's do that too.
- Nintendo has motion controls. We should do that too

Probably more examples of Sony being Sony that I forgot.

Playstation Plus was innovative though, before they ruined it.
Free online gaming was nice, before they followed Microsoft's lead and ruined that too.
VR should be more popular than it is but maybe it just sucks, I have never been able to afford to try it.

From PS1 all the way to the PS5, PlayStation consoles always ended up offering the superior library of games, that is what matters the most. Even the worst things Sony has done don't come even close to what MS has done again and again.

MS came up with the online paywall, put basic functionality like streaming apps and web browser behind a paywall and didn't even have the decency to come up with something like PS+ Instant Game Collection (it took them years to come up with Games with Gold and then they quickly turned it into a joke). Xbox spent almost a decade charging for F2P games, something Sony has never done. They were the first to push for microtransaction and played a role big role in the infamous horse armor DLC. MS tried to push always on DRM and tried to put an end to used games, to this day still push garbage DRM on PC, tried to push that disgrace called Games for Windows on PC.

20 years and they have almost nothing to show for it, all their big franchises (that they bought like Halo and Gears) have been run into the ground, they had to resort to buying entire publishers to not have to leave the console market.

 

[Zog]

From PS1 all the way to the PS5 PlayStation consoles always ended up offering the superior library of games.

Not to mention that even the worst things Sony has done don't come even close to the things MS pulled off. MS came up with the online paywall, put basic functionality like streaming apps and web browser behind a paywall and didn't even have the decency to come up with something like PS+ Instant Game Collection (it took them years to come up with Games with Gold and then they quickly turned it into a joke). MS tried to push always on DRM and kill the market of used copies, to this day still push garbage DRM on PC, tried to push that disgrace called Games for Windows on PC.

The Playstation (space removed, lol) had the best library for sure thanks in part to great third party support. The system was easy to develop for so the development costs were lower and distribution was cheaper. Good thing Nintendo accidently brought Sony into the console industry, well good for gamers, not good for Nintendo.

Microsoft, to me, has always seemed like they are in the console market for the wrong reason. They only did it because they were afraid Sony was going to take over the living room due to the DVD player on the PS2. Looking back, I think that justification was ridiculous. Why did they even care about the living room? I don't have much to say about Microsoft but what I do have to say isn't positive. Online paywall and being the first console to bring DLC (and look at the mess that has made).

 

[Franky Family]

Xbox employees post 360 era

 

[Night Sky]

But they are. They have 12 GaaS-type games in development. Most of these games are gonna be multiplatform from day one. Soon enough even their singleplayer games will become day one multiplatform.

Agree/disagree on the definition of 'going' vs offering as an option

VR is always gonna be niche. I'd be surprised if PSVR2 sells more than 5m.

It won't always be niche. Evolution says it will go that way. Unless brain interfaces supercede VR before it becomes viable like pagers:mobiles in the 90s

I'd argue they have changed it recently. Try telling a Sony fan five years ago that most if not all of the games are gonna come out on PC. Basically nobody would've believed it. And GaaS focus is the next step.

PC is free marketing. If they're giving away games for 'free' on psn+, may as well charge for them on PC. GaaS is just an option, not the main focus.

Idk about that, Xbox is doing better than ever according to their numbers.

Microsoft had ~75 million fans/users on 1 console the xbox 360. Now their numbers include PC and four consoles over two generations. I'd like to see a line by line breakdown before I believe they're doing better than the 360 days, including the ratio/increase of the number of gamers. Think of how many women play games vs 2008

In all seriousness if you think Sony hasn't chnaged the strategy in 25+ years you should do more research.

Which bit is revisionist?

Sony's core strategy hasn't changed. My research is gaming since '89. I've watched Sony from the Sega and Microsoft camps and how they do what they do hasn't changed all that much. They make a console to push a medium; CD, DVD, BLURAY, Digital and atm it looks VR.

 

[QuantumZebra]

I fucking hate mobile. I fucking hate it so much. It's the most absolute shittiest place to play or to try to play anything. This is a huge groan for me. Android itself is just a very shitty OS to try and play a game on. Fuck this and the mobile horse it's riding in on.

I'll be honest; I enjoy CoD Mobile, Diablo, Hearthstone, and some other mobile games... but I play on iPhone / iPad and usually with a PS4 controller.

I'd rather slam my dick in a door than play candy crush xbox edition on an android, though.

 

[Zog]

I fucking hate mobile. I fucking hate it so much. It's the most absolute shittiest place to play or to try to play anything. This is a huge groan for me. Android itself is just a very shitty OS to try and play a game on. Fuck this and the mobile horse it's riding in on.

I think the burning question on everyone's mind is:

What do you think of mobile gaming, your post wasn't clear on this point.

 

[Optimus]

I think the burning question on everyone's mind is:

What do you think of mobile gaming, your post wasn't clear on this point.

Oh, I absolutely love it! I can't imagine a world without mobile gaming. When I fire up a game of COD on the shitter, I want to be greeted with 90% of the actual game stuck behind a paywall or a shitty grindfest. Who the hell has time for fun anymore??

 

[Optimus]

I'll be honest; I enjoy CoD Mobile, Diablo, Hearthstone, and some other mobile games... but I play on iPhone / iPad and usually with a PS4 controller.

I'd rather slam my dick in a door than play candy crush xbox edition on an android, though.

I can see it being alright on an iPad. I will only put up with a small phone screen if I have no alternatives. And to be clear, I've absolutely enjoyed playing Xbox games via cloud streaming when I've been in situations where I'm gonna be stuck somewhere for several hours with no other entertainment. I played a bunch of Crackdown 3 while we were at the hospital early in my wife's labor. It was very playable.