[Zog]

Generations mattered IMO. Now people just want their existing catalogue brought over. Resolution and framerate took that away from the excitement of a new generation. Function, form and usability over shiny graphics. Also consoles simply caught up to the tech available as well, any more advancement is going to cost lots more for minimal gains now. Look how bad the Switch ports are at the moment or how much work is needed Dev side to make one that's half decent. There's just as many downsides to generations as upsides. I kind of like how we've matured to a more "boring, but functional" take personally.

Generations still matter and that will become obvious as we draw closer to Nintendo's new console. People want their old games to still work, yes but that is where backward compatibility comes in and it's nothing new. People also want a reason to be excited about a new console. I bet you going forward we will lose the BC for Xbox and 360 games.

Microsoft's approach is extremely boring to me. Atleast Sony took the time to design a new controller and OS (like it or not). Nintendo of course, does that too.

We already lost physical games. The discs now are little more than DRM. Nothing runs off of the discs. The last remnant is the ability to resell the discs.

Running off the discs isn't the issue, it's the data on the discs that can be installed over and over again into the future. Also, resale is important both for preservation and for recouping some of the cost of the game.

 

[lock2k]

Generations still matter and that will become obvious as we draw closer to Nintendo's new console. People want their old games to still work, yes but that is where backward compatibility comes in and it's nothing new. People also want a reason to be excited about a new console. I bet you going forward we will lose the BC for Xbox and 360 games.

Microsoft's approach is extremely boring to me. Atleast Sony took the time to design a new controller and OS (like it or not). Nintendo of course, does that too.



Running off the discs isn't the issue, it's the data on the discs that can be installed over and over again into the future. Also, resale is important both for preservation and for recouping some of the cost of the game.

Preservation will be done by emulation and downloading the games from the internet anyways. I'm not worried in the slightest.

As for the controller, Microsoft had the same approach Sony had with the PS3, it was essentially a wireless PS2 controller with those weird tacked on triggers. Maybe next time they will redesign the controller like Sony did now.

 

[Zog]

Preservation will be done by emulation and downloading the games from the internet anyways. I'm not worried in the slightest.

As for the controller, Microsoft had the same approach Sony had with the PS3, it was essentially a wireless PS2 controller with those weird tacked on triggers. Maybe next time they will redesign the controller like Sony did now.

The DualShock 3 came after their newly designed controller failed, the Sixaxis. Forget about that?

Also, that weird boomerang controller that they never released. Atleast they were trying.

Preservation is done better by having a disc and playing on original hardware OR on emulation.

 

[Hostile_18]

Generations still matter and that will become obvious as we draw closer to Nintendo's new console. People want their old games to still work, yes but that is where backward compatibility comes in and it's nothing new. People also want a reason to be excited about a new console. I bet you going forward we will lose the BC for Xbox and 360 games.

Microsoft's approach is extremely boring to me. Atleast Sony took the time to design a new controller and OS (like it or not). Nintendo of course, does that too.



Running off the discs isn't the issue, it's the data on the discs that can be installed over and over again into the future. Also, resale is important both for preservation and for recouping some of the cost of the game.

The other issue with generations that I forgot to touch on, is probably the biggest; Game development cost. Even first party has shown that they are not willing to take the hit to make a modern game exclusive to a new machine, for long term gains of the platform holder. Second and Third parties... absolutely no chance. Budgets are just too big now, even for companies that own said platform, they have to sell to the biggest audience possible. It's hard to find fault with that logic. People come over to the new platform eventually anyways, I would say the Series X or PS5 had no must play exclusives, yet they are doing well.

 

[Zog]

The other issue with generations that I forgot to touch on, is probably the biggest; Game development cost. Even first party has shown that they are not willing to take the hit to make a modern game exclusive to a new machine, for long term gains for the platform holder. Second and Third parties... absolutely no chance. Budgets are just too big now, even for companies that own said platform, they have to sell to the biggest audience possible. It's hard to find fault with that logic. People come over to the new platform eventually anyways, I would say the Series X or PS5 had no must play exclusives, yet they are doing well.

Tell that to Nintendo.

 

[Hostile_18]

Tell that to Nintendo.

I mean lets be honest, Nintendo are doing there own thing but there primary audience is kids and they have lower production values in many respects. Plus Zelda Breath of the Wild, Smash etc was multi-platform. Even Nintendo are getting afraid to make things truly exclusive until their user base is fairly substantial. I'd be very surprised if they launch with truely Switch 2 exclusive titles given how well the Switch 1 has done. IF they do, it will be with a game that's a fraction of the budget of a modern mass market AAA.

 

[Zog]

I have to go but let me just say this. Microsoft's approach to console gaming has always been to make it more PC like. Now we are at the point where Microsoft just has a standard controller, standard OS and even a standard name (it's just the Xbox ecosystem). In the graphics department PC will aways come out on top and all they are really doing is removing the excitement of new generations. Nobody wants to use the Microsoft store on PC either. Xbox will fail and they may take PlayStation down with them.

I mean lets be honest, Nintendo are doing there own thing but there primary audience is kids and they have lower production values in many respects. Plus Zelda Breath of the Wild, Smash etc was multi-platform. Even Nintendo are getting afraid to make things truly exclusive until their user base is fairly substantial. I'd be very surprised if they launch with truely Switch 2 exclusive titles given how well the Switch 1 has done. IF they do, it will be with a game that's a fraction of the budget of a modern mass market AAA.

Maybe Nintendo is doing something right. Microsoft wants to buy them.

I wouldn't say their primary audience is kids either (kids sure bought a lot of Switches), their primary audience is everyone who wants fun games and not cinematic stories. Be honest, you own a Switch (or two) and some of those kids games, right?

 

[teezzy]

Microsoft's approach to console gaming has always been to make it more PC like.

Fair, and this is exactly how theyve driven the console market forward into what it is today. Its why Xbox fans love their systems. We like our FPS and western RPGs and online gaming, and thats what Xbox delivers best. Would be tragic to see them go and only have Nintendo and Sony left. How boring.

 

[Hostile_18]

I have to go but let me just say this. Microsoft's approach to console gaming has always been to make it more PC like. Now we are at the point where Microsoft just has a standard controller, standard OS and even a standard name (it's just the Xbox ecosystem). In the graphics department PC will aways come out on top and all they are really doing is removing the excitement of new generations. Nobody wants to use the Microsoft store on PC either. Xbox will fail and they may take PlayStation down with them.



Maybe Nintendo is doing something right. Microsoft wants to buy them.

I wouldn't say their primary audience is kids either (kids sure bought a lot of Switches), their primary audience is everyone who wants fun games and not cinematic stories. Be honest, you own a Switch (or two) and some of those kids games, right?

Cinematic games absolutely exist (and I personally love them) but there's far more than that available on PS5, XB and PC. I think Nintendo are great at what they do. All I'm saying is that Nintendo are best suited to adopt the philosophy about generations, but even they are deviating from it. I don't own a Switch, I have played and enjoyed Mario Odyssey and LOVE Mario Kart, but in general my tastes have moved on (and so to my hardware expectations).

 

[Phunkydiabetic]

We already lost physical games. The discs now are little more than DRM. Nothing runs off of the discs. The last remnant is the ability to resell the discs.

And yet, I can still go sell that physical disc if I desire. I can trade it in for credit towards another game if I desire. Shit, I could lend it out to a mate if I so desire.

physical4lyf

 

[Zog]

Fair, and this is exactly how they've driven the console market forward into what it is today.

This is so true and I don't mean it as a compliment.

 

[Hostile_18]

Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony have all shown without serious competition they would bend over the consumer and you would own nothing.

Honestly it's Valve of all people that doesn't seem to have had as many missteps, and might actually be genuinely pro consumer focused, regardless of competition.... at least while Gabe is in charge.

 

[lock2k]

The DualShock 3 came after their newly designed controller failed, the Sixaxis. Forget about that?

Also, that weird boomerang controller that they never released. Atleast they were trying.

Preservation is done better by having a disc and playing on original hardware OR on emulation.

No, but the Sixaxis, visually and ergonomically, was just a shell of a Dualshock 2 - it was visually and it felt like the same thing - the Dualshock 2 even works on a PS2 if you connect it to a USB adapter. I was disappointed that the boomerang didn't come out because it looked really cool.

While I agree on a technical level, original hardware will break, discs will rot, digital can be copied infinitely if well-preserved.

 

[lock2k]

Fair, and this is exactly how theyve driven the console market forward into what it is today. Its why Xbox fans love their systems. We like our FPS and western RPGs and online gaming, and thats what Xbox delivers best. Would be tragic to see them go and only have Nintendo and Sony left. How boring.

Sony would inherit all of the Western crap anyway...

And yet, I can still go sell that physical disc if I desire. I can trade it in for credit towards another game if I desire. Shit, I could lend it out to a mate if I so desire.

physical4lyf

It's theoretically cool but a good chunk of them will be unusable when the storefronts close in the years to come. If you have a physical game that depends on a day 1 patch and you don't have a way to download it, you're fucked. That's why Piracy is the real savior.

 

[prag16]

Generations matter.

Generations don't matter. Sure you have the tiny segment of superfans of each manufacturer getting hyped, but this more iterative approach just makes more sense for most people. The downsides of the "generations" approach outweigh the upsides in my opinion. And it doesn't prevent anyone from continuing to innovate. Lack of innovation is a separate issue entirely.

 

[Zog]

No, but the Sixaxis, visually and ergonomically, was just a shell of a Dualshock 2 - it was visually and it felt like the same thing - the Dualshock 2 even works on a PS2 if you connect it to a USB adapter. I was disappointed that the boomerang didn't come out because it looked really cool.

While I agree on a technical level, original hardware will break, discs will rot, digital can be copied infinitely if well-preserved.

Even today you can go out and find refurbished PS1's and PS1 discs. This is what I am talking about with preservation, and you can also pop your PS1 disc into your PC and play it on an emulator (or make a copy of it) if you prefer. Even games that would never be big enough to get a re-release, remake or port are available to people decades later after any digital store would be closed.

The point with the sixaxis and the boomerang is that Sony atleast tried, What did Microsoft do, add a small button on the front? Back in the 360 days, Microsoft was trying but I guess they gave up.

 

[Chozofication]

We already lost physical games. The discs now are little more than DRM. Nothing runs off of the discs. The last remnant is the ability to resell the discs.

That's really not true for everything, quite a few games are complete. And even if a game is significantly patched, the. 1.0 version may have benefits that you'd want.

Example last guardian 1.0 running at 60fps, patched locked at 30. Ff 15 is almost a completely different experience patched and not really for the better.

Most recently I was surprised that hogwarts only had 1 tiny patch before I started playing that clearly was for a minor bug.

Nintendo often reprints game cards with all patches included.

There definitely have been a significant number of games i buy that don't have patches, though that's partly because I avoid buying games with obvious bugs and or planned dlc and wait for newer versions. Like, i would see your point if i bought crap like jedi on ps5 but I don't.

Basically if you wait a while and buy games for cheap it can be a completely different experience. Or just avoid the crap.

Particularly on switch, there are many games that haven't need patched.

Plus just because a particular game really needs patched, at least you have SOME physical version.

I'm just saying physical is still 100000% better than digital even though patches are a thing.

 

[Zog]

Sony would inherit all of the Western crap anyway...

Complete with bugs. I get it, people like their WRPG's but damn are they boring to me. I think I got my fill with Morrowind and Oblivion and nothing else compares. The FPS thing, oh damn that trend has been going for decades now and it just won't die.

Generations don't matter. Sure you have the tiny segment of superfans of each manufacturer getting hyped, but this more iterative approach just makes more sense for most people. The downsides of the "generations" approach outweigh the upsides in my opinion. And it doesn't prevent anyone from continuing to innovate. Lack of innovation is a separate issue entirely.

I don't agree, as the hype rises for Nintendo's next console it's going to be obvious that generations do matter to alot of people.

 

[lock2k]

Even today you can go out and find refurbished PS1's and PS1 discs. This is what I am talking about with preservation, and you can also pop your PS1 disc into your PC and play it on an emulator (or make a copy of it) if you prefer. Even games that would never be big enough to get a re-release, remake or port are available to people decades later after any digital store would be closed.

The point with the sixaxis and the boomerang is that Sony atleast tried, What did Microsoft do, add a small button on the front? Back in the 360 days, Microsoft was trying but I guess they gave up.

I have a lot of old hardware and I appreciate it, but since the 7th generation it became a mess. Up to gen 6th physical is king.

I even saw replicas of the boomerang selling online and I was tempted to buy one to see if it was cool. I absolutely agree with you that Microsoft isn't even trying.

 

[prag16]

That's why Piracy is the real savior.

Yep. I sometime pirate games to try them before I buy, and I've bought everything I've ever played a lot of. But games I buy at launch, I often download the pirate version later on as well for archival purposes. For this very reason.

I still have my NES and I have a hell of a time getting the games to work half the time, even after replacing the 72 pin connector in my system twice over the past 30+ years. Emulation and piracy is really the only answer to the "preservation" issue. Original hardware goes out of production and it breaks. Memory deteriorates, even discs don't have an infinite shelf life. The world has moved on and we can either throw a tantrum or do what needs to be done for the long term. And this is coming from someone who still occasionally buys 4K blurays and CDs. I like my physical shit. But we have to be realistic here.

I'm just saying physical is still 100000% better than digital even though patches are a thing.

See above. Nothing lasts forever. The shit I played when I was a kid is barely functional nowadays. Sure some people have replaced every part ten times and have pristine shit, but the vast majority decidedly don't. My kids have played Wii U most in terms of physical/console. How many Wii U's are going to be functional in 2058?

 

[prag16]

I don't agree, as the hype rises for Nintendo's next console it's going to be obvious that generations do matter to alot of people.

The small segment of enthusiasts/earlyadopters/fanboys are going to be hyped out of their minds. That's not who bought 95% of Switches though. That's not 95% of the market. Generations once mattered. But not anymore. And this is a good thing.

 

[Chozofication]

Yep. I sometime pirate games to try them before I buy, and I've bought everything I've ever played a lot of. But games I buy at launch, I often download the pirate version later on as well for archival purposes. For this very reason.

I still have my NES and I have a hell of a time getting the games to work half the time, even after replacing the 72 pin connector in my system twice over the past 30+ years. Emulation and piracy is really the only answer to the "preservation" issue. Original hardware goes out of production and it breaks. Memory deteriorates, even discs don't have an infinite shelf life. The world has moved on and we can either throw a tantrum or do what needs to be done for the long term. And this is coming from someone who still occasionally buys 4K blurays and CDs. I like my physical shit. But we have to be realistic here.



See above. Nothing lasts forever. The shit I played when I was a kid is barely functional nowadays. Sure some people have replaced every part ten times and have pristine shit, but the vast majority decidedly don't. My kids have played Wii U most in terms of physical/console. How many Wii U's are going to be functional in 2058?

Buy digital because your wii u may not work in 2060?

Even if that wasn't a ridiculous argument, the physical games still hold value and can be sold.

 

[Franky Family]

They've basically thrown in the towel already. I haven't been impressed with their games since 2008 when Gears of War 2 came out. If I'm being generous, 2010-2012 was Xbox's last decent stretch

 

[lock2k]

Buy digital because your wii u may not work in 2060?

Even if that wasn't a ridiculous argument, the physical games still hold value and can be sold.

We are talking about unofficial digital here, not official.

They've basically thrown in the towel already. I haven't been impressed with their games since 2008 when Gears of War 2 came out. If I'm being generous, 2010-2012 was Xbox's last decent stretch

I feel the same way about them.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

I just don't know what the games are that makes anyone an Xbox fan

 

[Chozofication]

We are talking about unofficial digital here, not official.

Buy physical and backup as roms.

There is no argument not to buy physical unless you just want to steal everything.

 

[Nikana]

 

[lock2k]

Buy physical and backup as roms.

There is no argument not to buy physical unless you just want to steal everything.

I just don't know what the games are that makes anyone an Xbox fan

BlinX

 

[Chozofication]

BlinX

I definitely don't put on the eyepatch for PC games that have drm or steam games that require another launcher cough ubisoft

 

[QuantumZebra]

Competition is good so I don't want that to happen.

HOWEVER... right now gaming and PlayStation are ubiquitous... look at any mainstream reference to gaming (IE people playing a console in movies, etc.) - it's almost always a PS5.

Xbox will go the way of the dinosaur if it can't get a bigger mindshare.

 

[teezzy]

Cinematic games absolutely exist (and I personally love them) but there's far more than that available on PS5, XB and PC. I think Nintendo are great at what they do. All I'm saying is that Nintendo are best suited to adopt the philosophy about generations, but even they are deviating from it. I don't own a Switch, I have played and enjoyed Mario Odyssey and LOVE Mario Kart, but in general my tastes have moved on (and so to my hardware expectations).

Zog just wishes everyone played Super Nintendo still, I reckon

Competition is good so I don't want that to happen.

HOWEVER... right now gaming and PlayStation are ubiquitous... look at any mainstream reference to gaming (IE people playing a console in movies, etc.) - it's almost always a PS5.

Xbox will go the way of the dinosaur if it can't get a bigger mindshare.

Theres PS5s in movies and tv? Earnest question, i dont think ive ever seen it

Blinx

Blinx is legit based

 

[teezzy]

I just don't know what the games are that makes anyone an Xbox fan

You're trolling, but...

Halo, Gears of War, Forza, Forza Horizon, Sea of Thieves, Fable, Ori, Grounded, etc. ... and the potential of whats to come

GamePass, asymmetric thumbsticks, backwards compatibility with improvements per game, etc

People just play dumb when it comes to Xbox because they floundered last gen

Its far and away my favorite way to play games outside of my PCs

 

[Phunkydiabetic]

You're trolling, but...

Halo, Gears of War, Forza, Forza Horizon, Sea of Thieves, Fable, Ori, Grounded, etc. ... and the potential of whats to come

GamePass, asymmetric thumbsticks, backwards compatibility with improvements per game, etc

People just play dumb when it comes to Xbox because they floundered last gen

Its far and away my favorite way to play games outside of my PCs

Yeah but....

Halo - was relevant a decade+ ago. Commonly known to be a joke now
Gears of War - see above
Forza/Forza Horizon - ok at least these games are still decent
Sea of Thieves - come on son
Fable - again...relevant well over a decade ago. No one gives a shit these days
Ori - really? Good game, released almost a decade ago
Grounded - no one is talking about Grounded.

So I guess Xbox fans are mostly running on nostalgia over games from years past? They floundered last gen, they don't seem to be doing any better this gen either. It's shaping up to be another flounder.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

You're trolling, but...

Halo, Gears of War, Forza, Forza Horizon, Sea of Thieves, Fable, Ori, Grounded, etc. ... and the potential of whats to come

GamePass, asymmetric thumbsticks, backwards compatibility with improvements per game, etc

People just play dumb when it comes to Xbox because they floundered last gen

Its far and away my favorite way to play games outside of my PCs

Last good Halo was ODST.

Last time Gears was good was the first entry.

Don't play Forza games.

Sea of Thieves is gay.

Fable is gay and hasn't had a new entry in forever.

Ori is a mediocre Metroidvania.

Grounded looks pretty gay to me.

Yep, still don't get it.

 

[DonDonDonPata]

Microsoft's awful business decisions and poisonous strategy doesn't erase all the excellent games that can be played on the platform. We gotta make sure to separate the two. I'm a "Sony fan" in the loose sense that I switched from 360 to PS2/PS3 and stuck with Playstation ever since, but the # of Sony games I've bought dropped off a steep cliff about halfway through the PS4 gen. Doesn't make me hate the platform, I'd still recommend it, but I also can't really make the sales pitch based on Sony's output because I think it has been weak.

At the end of the day, a platform that delivers a large enough library is what people want. We're not talking about the Atari Jaguar or the Neo Geo Pocket Color.

 

[teezzy]

Yeah but....

Halo - was relevant a decade+ ago. Commonly known to be a joke now
Gears of War - see above
Forza/Forza Horizon - ok at least these games are still decent
Sea of Thieves - come on son
Fable - again...relevant well over a decade ago. No one gives a shit these days
Ori - really? Good game, released almost a decade ago
Grounded - no one is talking about Grounded.

So I guess Xbox fans are mostly running on nostalgia over games from years past? They floundered last gen, they don't seem to be doing any better this gen either. It's shaping up to be another flounder.

Fair, but personally I really enjoy my Series X. Its my favorite console I own.

I could make similar arguments against why both PS5 and Switch are lame compared to PC, Steam Deck, etc

Wasnt an Xbox fanboy until I purchased an XB1S to play NHL a few years back (not on PC since NHL 13). Made me realize there was more to the brand than met the eye. So glad I bought a Series X too.

To each their own, and I look forward to what Xbox is promising moving forward, whether they succeed or not. Im in

 

[Hostile_18]

Grounded looks pretty gay to me.

 

[Chozofication]

I am genuinely struggling to think what games I would miss if MS left.

Not in terms of past games because they've produced excellent stuff but future…?

Gears is a joke, halo is a mess, forza I can live without, fable… kinda seems like it's not going to be good but i'd love to be proven wrong. Some perfect dark game that's in dev hell.

Before anyone says sony pony, I have been very critical of a lot of the big Sony studios as well.

I think the whole industry just needs a cleanse and needs to stop chasing the blockbuster dollar. Balder's gate 3 shows what could be.

Edit : to be clear it would be BAD if ms left because we need as much competition as possible

 

[teezzy]

Grounded was tight tbh

I was surprised as i wasnt hyped

Xaero and me used to play it on GamePass

 

[Zog]

Zog just wishes everyone played Super Nintendo still, I reckon

There must be a basis for this comment?