Indie Games & Hidden Gems |OT| It's Not About Size

Thread: Indie Games & Hidden Gems |OT| It's Not About Size
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Nicktendo said:


This is a great game, reminiscent of Trials HD. Lots of replay value and ton a cheap but beefy DLC.
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Played the demo - THANK YOU for the recommendation, I freaking love it. Had to change the controls but then I had so much fun with that one course from the demo. What a gem! So many incredible games that I miss, kinda frustrating.
 
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Everyone who enjoys futuristic racing and Wipeout, should check out BallisticNG. It's SO GOOD.



 
regawdless said:
Played the demo - THANK YOU for the recommendation, I freaking love it. Had to change the controls but then I had so much fun with that one course from the demo. What a gem! So many incredible games that I miss, kinda frustrating.
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Played this on GP and loved it. Its such a chill game but theres a hardcore almost Trials vibe to it.
 
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What are some good indie games or worthy of mention? Indie scene is making some incredible, outright amazing games, in a game industry where AAA titles are in a extremely dire state due to many factors but the indie scene for all their success still have their own problems too.

Will be editing this a bit.

Astralibra: Revision - I think one review said its like Ys 3 crossed with Xenoblade. Absolutely insane game.
Assault Android Cactus @DonDonDonPata
Bastion
Beyond All Reason @Sean Mirrsen
Binding of Isaac
Cassette Beasts - Woke but does a lot of things with mechanics Gamefreak can't or won't.
Has an insane transformation mechanic I think has been used very infrequently in other game like Digimon? And by certain powerful bosses in The World Ends with You. Mechanic is characters transforming into the monsters themselves. I cannot stress enough to beware the day Gamefreak notices and takes "inspiration" from it and makes the next main pokemon game gimmick one where the trainers transform into pokemon. You think Pokemon fandom is bad now?
Blasphemous
Brigador: Uparmored
Bug Fables: The Everlasting Sapling
The Banner Saga
Castle Crashers
Celeste
Crosscode
Chronicon
Carrion
Cuphead @Rock And Roll
Crypt of the Necrodancer @DonDonDonPata
Cult of the Lamb @teezzy
Darkwood
Darkest Dungeon
Death's Door
Deep Rock Galactic
Dominions 4/5 @Sean Mirrsen
Don't Starve @DonDonDonPata
Dusk
Dust: An Elysium Story
Dwarf Fortress
Ender Lilies: Quietus Of The Knights
Expeditions CRPG Trilogy - Probably first two, Rome might be bigger in scale and resources.
Everspace
Endless Sky @Sean Mirrsen
Enter the Gungeon @DonDonDonPata
FTL
Factario
Flinthook @DonDonDonPata
Furi
Fe @Stilton Disco
The Forest
Greedfall
Grim Dawn
Guacamelee!
Guacamelee! 2
Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice @Stilton Disco
Hammerfight @Sean Mirrsen
Hollow Knight
Hotline Miami
Hotline Miami 2
Hyper Light Drifter
Heat Signature - @Sean Mirrsen
Into the Breach
Kenshi
Katana Zero
Little Nightmares
Minecraft
Mark of the Ninja
Mount and Blade 1/2 @DonDonDonPata
The Messenger
No Man's Sky @Stilton Disco
Neon White @DonDonDonPata
Noita
A Plague Tale: Innocence
Shovel Knight
Signalis
Salt and Sanctuary
Shadowrunner Trilogy
Shadow Complex @WesternBlood
Streets of Rogue
Stardew Valley
Subnautica
Symphony of War
Starsector @Sean Mirrsen
Spelunky 1 and 2 @DonDonDonPata
Nuclear Throne
Slay the Spire @BlackOlivesMatter
The Outer Wilds
Oxenfree
Project Wingman
Prison Simulator
Prodeus
Pyre
Rimworld
Roadwarden @mcz117chief
Regiments @mcz117chief
Rogue Legacy 1/2
Tangledeep @Sean Mirrsen
Terraria
Troubleshooters
Transistor
Tunic
Titan Souls
The Talos Principle
They Are Billions @DonDonDonPata
Return of the Obra Dinn
Risk of Rain 1/2 @DonDonDonPata
Valhiem
Vampire Survivors
V Rising
World of Goo
Wildermyth
The Witness
 
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The main thing holding indies back is the lack of scale. I'm not expecting a large map (though that's part of it) or a ton of enemies (though that's part of it too). The thing that shines through most in these games is the amount of content (or lack thereof). 99.9% of these games are small. Even if it's fun and interesting, the overall scope of the game is much smaller than what you can find in bigger RPGs / sandbox games. You're often left with a sense that you would've sunk twice as much time if only there was more content.

Unfortunately I have a growing sense this problem is getting worse, not better. Now that indies have access to more powerful engines and middleware, I'm noticing more and more indies looking similar to one another. All using the same pastel 3d graphics or "gritty cyberpunk" isometric graphics... it's all blurring together. Meanwhile games like Minecraft are still better than most of what else is out there because the content has piled up so much over the years. Why play a Terraria-like when the original has so much stuff?

This has put indie games in the same pinch as the AAA market. The studios are too small / lacking in creativity to match the "content" of the AAA devs even if their ideas and gameplay is a lot more interesting.

I miss the days of booting up an "indie game" with no campaign mode, just a skirmish mode and the promise of more to come but offering a genuinely interesting game system that you haven't played in the AAA sphere. now indie games are trying to compete with AAA on their own terms, focusing on graphics and voice acting and story too much
 
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How do you define something as indie?

Like, when World of Goo released, I don't recall thinking of it, really, as some independent industry-mold-breaking-self-published game. I guess I have a similar problem or issue with considering Bloodstained games as "Indie" games. That dude is an established veteran game designer who simply formed a new studio to crank out another all-time hit. I've been thinking of indie as a label for the amateur game making scene.

On that list, I really only consider Stardew and Hollow Knight as truly worthwhile games that I've played that I even consider "indie." Minecraft always felt like it had a real studio behind it. Maybe it iddn't, and maybe it's a real "indie" by my weird narrow definition.

Today's "indie" is just yesterday's video game companies who were self-publishing before being bought out by a triple A publisher, I guess.
 
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It makes sense that they are hitting their target audeinces better than AAA seems to be at this point. AAA has fallen into this cycle of appealing to everyone instead of the niche. Which..it makes sense. Sony has figured it out in many ways. Theres a reason all of their games share core traits. The difference is they are pushing the scale to heights indies just dont have the manpower for.

I am rarely impressed by scale, which is probably why most games I am playin recently are smaller indie games. The core loop is far more important to me than scale.
 
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Optimus said:
How do you define something as indie?

Like, when World of Goo released, I don't recall thinking of it, really, as some independent industry-mold-breaking-self-published game. I guess I have a similar problem or issue with considering Bloodstained games as "Indie" games. That dude is an established veteran game designer who simply formed a new studio to crank out another all-time hit. I've been thinking of indie as a label for the amateur game making scene.

On that list, I really only consider Stardew and Hollow Knight as truly worthwhile games that I've played that I even consider "indie." Minecraft always felt like it had a real studio behind it. Maybe it iddn't, and maybe it's a real "indie" by my weird narrow definition.

Today's "indie" is just yesterday's video game companies who were self-publishing before being bought out by a triple A publisher, I guess.
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I guess for me since I see people refer to those games either as indie and or really good I form my opinion based off that, though I have played some of them, with some experiances better than others.
 
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Optimus said:
How do you define something as indie?

Like, when World of Goo released, I don't recall thinking of it, really, as some independent industry-mold-breaking-self-published game. I guess I have a similar problem or issue with considering Bloodstained games as "Indie" games. That dude is an established veteran game designer who simply formed a new studio to crank out another all-time hit. I've been thinking of indie as a label for the amateur game making scene.

On that list, I really only consider Stardew and Hollow Knight as truly worthwhile games that I've played that I even consider "indie." Minecraft always felt like it had a real studio behind it. Maybe it iddn't, and maybe it's a real "indie" by my weird narrow definition.

Today's "indie" is just yesterday's video game companies who were self-publishing before being bought out by a triple A publisher, I guess.
Click to expand...

There was a time when Popcap was an indie and then they got bought and just became a studio under a big publisher.

I think being a self owned/run studio (publishing deals don't count against that) + budget / staff being well below even a small studio owned by a publisher = indie
 
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indie nowadays just means "small budget / small studio" as compared to the $60 AAA retail games, with the implication that the smaller teams are hand-picked, more passionate, more creative, "punch above their weight", not designed by committee or by popular trends, etc and that the smaller scale of the game allows more experimentation and "innovation", more freedom, etc.

Both Astria Ascending and Child of Light would be considered an "indie RPG" even though one is published by Ubisoft, the average consumer would lump them into the same category of the market.

There's some truth to the label but it has essentially turned into a marketing term just like in music and movies. Warhammer 40k Boltgun is by a major publisher, on a major game engine, using a worldwide brand but it would be considered "indie" because it's retro and self-aware (or whatever)

 
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Zeta Dragoon said:
I guess for me since I see people refer to those games either as indie and or really good I form my opinion based off that, though I have played some of them, with some experiances better than others.
Click to expand...

Oh, they're probably right about what's an indie and what's not. I'm definitely probably the one who doesn't understand the label.

All of these are probably true indies if indie literally just means self-publishing-studio-who-isn't-triple-a.
 
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DonDonDonPata said:
The main thing holding indies back is the lack of scale. I'm not expecting a large map (though that's part of it) or a ton of enemies (though that's part of it too). The thing that shines through most in these games is the amount of content (or lack thereof). 99.9% of these games are small. Even if it's fun and interesting, the overall scope of the game is much smaller than what you can find in bigger RPGs / sandbox games. You're often left with a sense that you would've sunk twice as much time if only there was more content.

Unfortunately I have a growing sense this problem is getting worse, not better. Now that indies have access to more powerful engines and middleware, I'm noticing more and more indies looking similar to one another. All using the same pastel 3d graphics or "gritty cyberpunk" isometric graphics... it's all blurring together. Meanwhile games like Minecraft are still better than most of what else is out there because the content has piled up so much over the years. Why play a Terraria-like when the original has so much stuff?

This has put indie games in the same pinch as the AAA market. The studios are too small / lacking in creativity to match the "content" of the AAA devs even if their ideas and gameplay is a lot more interesting.

I miss the days of booting up an "indie game" with no campaign mode, just a skirmish mode and the promise of more to come but offering a genuinely interesting game system that you haven't played in the AAA sphere. now indie games are trying to compete with AAA on their own terms, focusing on graphics and voice acting and story too much
Click to expand...

You're not wrong, but the Indie marker is still vastly healthier than the AAA space, and there are more rhan a few 'Triple Indie' games, Indies that get lifted up by a big publisher and given a budget and staff, to take it to the level of what used to be those classic B tier games we'renow starved for.

No Man's Sky, Fe, Unravled, Hellblade and the like all got boosted with what was for the publisher a very modest additional budget, and it paid off nicely for them and gave us games bigger in ambition and scale, but at lower price tags. Sure, some needed a lot of post launch work, and sadly in Hellblade's case, got the srudio gobbled up by MS, so we can expect Hellblade 2 to be a disappointment, but it shows there is still a middle found to be found, and a path out of this current AAA nightmare once the wheels inevitably come off the industry.
 
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BlackOlivesMatter said:
There was a time when Popcap was an indie and then they got bought and just became a studio under a big publisher.

I think being a self owned/run studio (publishing deals don't count against that) + budget / staff being well below even a small studio owned by a publisher = indie
Click to expand...

An interesting thought: Would we have considered Eternal Darkness an indie game in today's market?
 
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@Zeta Dragoon as to your question of "notable indies"

you-know-i-am-something-of-a-scientist-myself.gif


grew up with a computer, a Game Boy, a dial up connection, so I scrounged every corner of the internet for free / shareware / pirated stuff. Played Liero, the cactus arcade games, Kongregate / Newgrounds flash fads, Mount & Blade beta customer, Minecraft beta customer, og Spelunky 2008 fan, I was pretty heavily into free Korean MMOs and shooters, too. Cheap or free was my jam. I have a pretty keen sense for good indies and so I will share some currently-available favorites based on total hours played:

Mount & Blade series (latest is M&B2 Bannerlord)
Risk of Rain 2 (saw you only had the first listed)
Spelunky 1 and 2
Neon White
Enter the Gungeon
Assault Android Cactus
Crypt of the Necrodancer (is Cadence of Hyrule even "indie" at this point? anyway...)
Flinthook
Don't Starve
They Are Billions

You already put a lot of really good ones on there, many of my favs like Minecraft, Dusk, FTL, Nuclear Throne, Hotline Miami... so many good ones.
 
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Slay the Spire is pretty much all I play on my Switch at the mo. And the other game I'm playing a lot at the moment is Valheim.

Played Tunic recently though and I hated it for some reason.
 
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Stilton Disco said:
You're not wrong, but the Indie marker is still vastly healthier than the AAA space, and there are more rhan a few 'Triple Indie' games, Indies that get lifted up by a big publisher and given a budget and staff, to take it to the level of what used to be those classic B tier games we'renow starved for.
Click to expand...

I agree it's healthier, by comparison, but I see the downward spiral that affects AAA devs currently looming for indie devs. The same pressure urging talented individuals to leave the big studios and "make indie teams" is what often causes them to split off and form yet a different indie team -- or join a competitor -- when that first indie team gets bigger and gets sold off. Again, hardly unique to gaming. We see this alot in the tech field, and it's incredibly common in other spheres of mass entertainment. Unfortunate, but completely expected.

the only remedy is very talented, strong willed leaders who can keep large-enough teams together to make AAA games with the vision and creativity that people more often find in "indies". Easier said than done of course.

Stilton Disco said:
No Man's Sky, Fe, Unravled, Hellblade and the like all got boosted with what was for the publisher a very modest additional budget, and it paid off nicely for them and gave us games bigger in ambition and scale, but at lower price tags. Sure, some needed a lot of post launch work, and sadly in Hellblade's case, got the srudio gobbled up by MS, so we can expect Hellblade 2 to be a disappointment, but it shows there is still a middle found to be found, and a path out of this current AAA nightmare once the wheels inevitably come off the industry.
Click to expand...

No Man's Sky today is not the game at launch (not complaining, as I platinum'd the vanilla version and liked it just fine). The product it offers to the customer looking for "space shooty games" is immense because it survived for enough years for the content to pile up. Terraria and Minecraft are the same way. The problem is that a truly "revolutionary" indie space shooter has to compete with the amount of content. It's kinda like the World of Warcraft subscriber problem. This is worse in the AAA sphere, and plenty of indies are still "breaking through" like Everspace making enough $$ for a sequel, despite the existence of Elite Dangerous, NMS, Star Citizen, etc. But as the space grows more crowded and the "classics" continue gaining more and more content, it becomes impossible to launch a new game that can match the amount of content in any meaningful way.

This is something that worries me for the next iteration of any videogames, not just indies. Like... who cares what gimmick Nintendo adds to Mario Kart 9 if it doesn't have just as many tracks and racers? For many games, the overwhelming amount of content and playability makes it too attractive to waste much time on other games in the genre. And this is happening just as graphics begin to become "good enough", as people seem satisfied with cheap 3d gaming on their smartphone if the tiddies and RPG hamster wheels are shiny enough. The content crunch is the predicament of the gaming industry, graphics and production value have become a self-destructive industry obsession.
 
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DonDonDonPata said:
I agree it's healthier, by comparison, but I see the downward spiral that affects AAA devs currently looming for indie devs. The same pressure urging talented individuals to leave the big studios and "make indie teams" is what often causes them to split off and form yet a different indie team -- or join a competitor -- when that first indie team gets bigger and gets sold off. Again, hardly unique to gaming. We see this alot in the tech field, and it's incredibly common in other spheres of mass entertainment. Unfortunate, but completely expected.

the only remedy is very talented, strong willed leaders who can keep large-enough teams together to make AAA games with the vision and creativity that people more often find in "indies". Easier said than done of course.



No Man's Sky today is not the game at launch (not complaining, as I platinum'd the vanilla version and liked it just fine). The product it offers to the customer looking for "space shooty games" is immense because it survived for enough years for the content to pile up. Terraria and Minecraft are the same way. The problem is that a truly "revolutionary" indie space shooter has to compete with the amount of content. It's kinda like the World of Warcraft subscriber problem. This is worse in the AAA sphere, and plenty of indies are still "breaking through" like Everspace making enough $$ for a sequel, despite the existence of Elite Dangerous, NMS, Star Citizen, etc. But as the space grows more crowded and the "classics" continue gaining more and more content, it becomes impossible to

This is something that worries me for the next iteration of any videogames, not just indies. Like... who cares what gimmick Nintendo adds to Mario Kart 9 if it doesn't have just as many tracks and racers? For many games, the overwhelming amount of content and playability makes it too attractive to waste much time on other games in the genre. And this is happening just as graphics begin to become "good enough", as people seem satisfied with cheap 3d gaming on their smartphone if the tiddies and RPG hamster wheels are shiny enough. The content crunch is the predicament of the gaming industry, graphics and production value have become a self-destructive industry obsession.
Click to expand...
Industry obsession with realistic graphics needs to ease off. Stylized graphics like Ghost of Tsushima, Breath of the Wild, last better over generations. Wind Waker with its cel shading and Okami both have a sense of style many games with insane graphics still lack.

Gameplay needs more focus on by the industry. Don't do open world because you can, better to have wide-levels packed with good content then a bunch of massive areas filled with nothing. Dragon Age Inqusition and most Ubisoft titles come to mind. Dragon Quest XI did a balanced wide level approach instead of a bloated world like DAI or an empty open world like Final Fantasy XV, and Final Fantasy XVI looks to do that.

Octopath Traveler I and II are actually open world JRPGs but they manage to balance an open world approach in interesting ways. I've even seen people starting to refer to other games in reviews as "Octopath like," which means Octopath is starting to gain a lot of attention and a certain to be determined standard as a JRPG series.
 
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Rock And Roll said:
No mention of Cuphead, for shame.

I haven't played Unchained Echoes yet but I've heard great things.
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From what I've read, Chained Echoes actually makes a case for being the most woke game on this entire list. Marketing for Chained Echoes has been insane, and a lot of peoples reviews and recommendations for it seem like something a company hired to quietly promote a game would say. Can't say for a 100 percent though.

CrossCode, a major indie RPG success did not come across like that to me not the way people reviewed and recommanded it. Same with Astralibra: Revision. Its that difference in how people talk about Chained Echos that has me a little weary.
 
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Adding some of my own favorites missing from the list:

Beyond All Reason
Dominions 4/5
Endless Sky
Heat Signature
Hammerfight
Starsector
Tangledeep

Also how is Dwarf Fortress not on there?
 
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SIGNALIS should be capitalized but I'm glad it is already mentioned.

Definitely add Roadwaren. An incredible text adventure released a year ago.

Even though Microprose doesn't count as an indie company (or does it?) Regiments was made by one man. A fantastic RTS set in the late 1980s on the German border.

Sean Mirrsen said:
Heat Signature
Starsector
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Both great picks I endorse wholeheartedly.
 
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Indies that come to mind from over the years:

1. Shadow Complex
2. Insanely Twisted Shadow Planet
3. From Dust (ubisofts nifty god world game)
4. Eufloria
5. Castle Crashers
6. FTL
7. Limbo
8. Outside
9. Black The Fall
10. Deadlight
11. Carrion
12. Bomber Crew
13. Iron Brigade
14. Pixel Junk Shooter 1 & 2
 
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Should Transistor, Pyre also be added for Supergiant Games, or were they already bigger than indie after Bastion? I would add Hades, but Supergiant is vastly more known now and Hades was very anticipated and a big hit from release, only somewhat hampered by the Epic exclusive period.
 
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Zeta Dragoon said:
Should Transistor, Pyre also be added for Supergiant Games, or were they already bigger than indie after Bastion? I would add Hades, but Supergiant is vastly more known now and Hades was very anticipated and a big hit from the oneselt, only somewhat hempered by the Epic exclusive period.
Click to expand...

Oh, I consider Supergiant games indie, despite their success. They haven't blown up and the output they have in such a short amount of time proves a nimble and discretely staffed dev team can bring some great games to light.

I have Transistor on my PS4, but never played it. Got it free on PS Plus monthly free games a while back. I did enjoy Bastion, a good first effort for that company.
 
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Zeta Dragoon said:
What are some good indie games or worthy of mention? Indie scene is making some incredible, outright amazing games, in a game industry where AAA titles are in a extremely dire state due to many factors but the indie scene for all their success still have their own problems too.

Will be editing this a bit.

Astralibra: Revision - I think one review said its like Ys 3 crossed with Xenoblade. Absolutely insane game.
Assault Android Cactus @DonDonDonPata
Bastion
Beyond All Reason @Sean Mirrsen
Binding of Isaac
Cassette Beasts - Woke but does a lot of things with mechanics Gamefreak can't or won't.
Has an insane transformation mechanic I think has been used very infrequently in other game like Digimon? And by certain powerful bosses in The World Ends with You. Mechanic is characters transforming into the monsters themselves. I cannot stress enough to beware the day Gamefreak notices and takes "inspiration" from it and makes the next main pokemon game gimmick one where the trainers transform into pokemon. You think Pokemon fandom is bad now?
Blasphemous
Brigador: Uparmored
Bug Fables: The Everlasting Sapling
The Banner Saga
Castle Crashers
Celeste
Crosscode
Chronicon
Carrion
Cuphead @Rock And Roll
Crypt of the Necrodancer @DonDonDonPata
Cult of the Lamb @teezzy
Darkwood
Darkest Dungeon
Death's Door
Deep Rock Galactic
Dominions 4/5 @Sean Mirrsen
Don't Starve @DonDonDonPata
Dusk
Dust: An Elysium Story
Dwarf Fortress
Ender Lilies: Quietus Of The Knights
Expeditions CRPG Trilogy - Probably first two, Rome might be bigger in scale and resources.
Everspace
Endless Sky @Sean Mirrsen
Enter the Gungeon @DonDonDonPata
FTL
Factario
Flinthook @DonDonDonPata
Furi
Fe @Stilton Disco
The Forest
Greedfall
Grim Dawn
Guacamelee!
Guacamelee! 2
Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice @Stilton Disco
Hammerfight @Sean Mirrsen
Hollow Knight
Hotline Miami
Hotline Miami 2
Hyper Light Drifter
Heat Signature - @Sean Mirrsen
Into the Breach
Kenshi
Katana Zero
Little Nightmares
Minecraft
Mark of the Ninja
Mount and Blade 1/2 @DonDonDonPata
The Messenger
No Man's Sky @Stilton Disco
Neon White @DonDonDonPata
Noita
A Plague Tale: Innocence
Shovel Knight
Signalis
Salt and Sanctuary
Shadowrunner Trilogy
Shadow Complex @WesternBlood
Streets of Rogue
Stardew Valley
Subnautica
Symphony of War
Starsector @Sean Mirrsen
Spelunky 1 and 2 @DonDonDonPata
Nuclear Throne
Slay the Spire @BlackOlivesMatter
The Outer Wilds
Oxenfree
Project Wingman
Prison Simulator
Prodeus
Pyre
Rimworld
Roadwarden @mcz117chief
Regiments @mcz117chief
Rogue Legacy 1/2
Tangledeep @Sean Mirrsen
Terraria
Troubleshooters
Transistor
Tunic
Titan Souls
The Talos Principle
They Are Billions @DonDonDonPata
Return of the Obra Dinn
Risk of Rain 1/2 @DonDonDonPata
Valhiem
Vampire Survivors
V Rising
World of Goo
Wildermyth
The Witness
Click to expand...

This list would be great as a kind of directory with links and summaries of what they are underneath, people can add their suggestions with links etc to do the work for you.
 
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