Hostile Faceoff II: Assassin's Creed II vs Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door

Thread: Hostile Faceoff II: Assassin's Creed II vs Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door

Which is the better game?

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Assassin's Creed II vs Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door

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VS
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ACII was a massive step up from AC and although Ubisoft abandoned the Desmond Storyline later on I had a lot of time for Ezio, even if I didn't care much for the gaming easter eggs (never have, never will).
 
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Paper Mario TTYD is one of the greatest games ever created in this medium. The fuck are you all smoking.

Unique visuals, interesting and varied companions, immersive combat with the timing based inputs, a great story and some of the best locales in the entire Mario series. It has charming and funny dialogue and a good variety of gameplay with the Peach and Bowser sections to help mix things up. Honestly, I think it might be Nintendo's best work.

I would not be entirely opposed to a Mario entry based entirely around the Glitz Pit, it's so much fun.

AC2 is a good game, but it's never more than an 8/10 at its best and was bettered with added mechanics in Brotherhood. Ezio is a great protagonist but I personally don't think it holds a candle to the masterpiece that is TTYD.
 
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Stilton Disco said:
The killed him off and abandoned the very obvious narrative that had been building up until then, barely bothering to even play lip service to the modern setting story since that moment.

Abandoning a story doesn't automatically mean just not creating the next instalment.
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It was a long time ago but I think it was an ok conclusion. People were complaining about too much future stuff and now they are complaining that there's not enough of it. I'm okay with minimizing it.
 
HE1NZ said:
It was a long time ago but I think it was an ok conclusion. People were complaining about too much future stuff and now they are complaining that there's not enough of it. I'm okay with minimizing it.
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It never sat right with me because Ubisoft essentially threw out 4 or 5 games worth of narrative build up for no discernable reason. Building up Desmond to tackle the Templars in a modern/future setting was a really good narrative hook and we saw actual growth in his abilities across these games.

Instead Ubi just dropped it all because reasons. It's laughable really, a downright shame.
 
Assassins Creed II was a grand adventure spanning across Renaissance Italy, with visiting multiple cities and ruins, exploring ancient tombs to unlock a really cool set of
ancient Assassins armor.
AC II to this day remains one of my favorite games ever.

Ubisoft should have improved on IIs formula, while reducing its bloat. Assassins Creed would be in a far better position even then it currently is though Ubisoft has outright ditched any attempts at humoring historical fact with the newer games. A shame. At least some really good games have been inspired by it, like Ys IX?! Boy was that a surprise going through its main city with Adol and friends parkouring through it like they are the main characters of an Assassins Creed, also Ghost of Tsushima.

Paper Mario: The Thousand Year door is one of the evergreen JRPGs I want to play. I know its considered one of the most beloved JRPGs and games ever made. I do not know about ever playing the remake. Not after the translation team outright changed the story to fit their views on society.
 
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Amorous Biscuit said:
It never sat right with me because Ubisoft essentially threw out 4 or 5 games worth of narrative build up for no discernable reason. Building up Desmond to tackle the Templars in a modern/future setting was a really good narrative hook and we saw actual growth in his abilities across these games.

Instead Ubi just dropped it all because reasons. It's laughable really, a downright shame.
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It's not how I remember it. But whatever.
 
HE1NZ said:
It's not how I remember it. But whatever.
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They basically excised Desmond from the franchise as a way to have different locales and stories. I always thought the Animus and Abstergo stories were the best parts of the narrative in the early games.

Their creative lead for AC3 also said this regarding his place in the franchise "things that go on too long lack resonance. We're asking people to remember seven years' worth of story." So Ubi essentially found the Desmond stuff to be a bit long in the tooth and rather than give us the fun narrative payoff where he becomes an Assassin in a modern day setting, they sacrificed him and put an end to the Apple of Eden/Juno/Minerva plot line stuff.

Dog shit company.
 
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Polden said:
AC2 is the golden standard of sequels.
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Definitely one of them. Also:
Age of Empires II
Batman: Arkham City
Bioshock 2
Dead Space 2
Diablo II: Resurrected
Divinity Orginal Sin 2
God of War II
Gravity Rush 2
Infamous 2
Mass Effect 2
Octopath Traveler II
Resident Evil 2: Remake
Stronghold: Crusader
Star Ocean: The Second Story R
Super Smash Brothers: Melee
The Sims 2
Uncharted 2
Xenoblade Chronicles 2
The Legend of Zelda: Majoras Mask (As a sequel and the 2nd 3D Zelda)

Have not played but:
Baldurs Gate 2
The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall
Fallout 2
Half-Life 2
Hell-Divers II (Before Sony fucked around with its gigantic fanbase)
Left for Dead 2
Persona 2
Portal 2
Pokémon Gen 2: Gold/Silver
Resident Evil 2
Team Fortress 2
System Shock 2
Silent Hill 2
Street Fighter II

The Anti 2:
Chrono Cross
Dark Souls 2
Dragon Age 2
Devil May Cry 2
Dragon Quest II
Final Fantasy II
Pillars of Eternity II
Prototype 2
The Legend of Zelda: Adventure of Link
 
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Italian slapfight!!! I think Paper Mario dons the wifebeater and gold chain for this one. 🍕

I thought AssCreed 2 was one of the greatest games of all time… for about 4 hours.
All the mechanics and systems they set up break down so fast. Zero stakes, stealth is a joke (just run/fight), combat is a joke (steal weapon), upgrades are a joke (steal weapon), traversal is a joke (hold that 'traversal' button lol). Just a slog through a copy paste to pop trophies and achievements for doing OCD chores.

I liked the PoP-esque puzzle rooms where you unlock the video clips.

Didn't help that I got this and Demon's Souls with my PS3 Slim. Sealed my fate as a git gud asshat lol
 
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Amorous Biscuit said:
They basically excised Desmond from the franchise as a way to have different locales and stories. I always thought the Animus and Abstergo stories were the best parts of the narrative in the early games.

Their creative lead for AC3 also said this regarding his place in the franchise "things that go on too long lack resonance. We're asking people to remember seven years' worth of story." So Ubi essentially found the Desmond stuff to be a bit long in the tooth and rather than give us the fun narrative payoff where he becomes an Assassin in a modern day setting, they sacrificed him and put an end to the Apple of Eden/Juno/Minerva plot line stuff.
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That's because nobody wanted a future set Assassin's Creed. Literally. People were crying to reduce Desmond stuff.

Originally they had a loose plan for a trilogy. Then franchise exploded exceeding their expectations so they chose to milk it with Botherhood and Revelations expanding Desmond story into 5 games. During this time Kristen Bell become a star and refused to expand her contract so they had to kill her character. Desmond's story went nowhere and nobody was interested in it so they wrapped it up. It was clear that exploring the past was what made AC popular so that's the direction they went.
 
HE1NZ said:
That's because nobody wanted a future set Assassin's Creed. Literally. People were crying to reduce Desmond stuff.

Originally they had a loose plan for a trilogy. Then franchise exploded exceeding their expectations so they chose to milk it with Botherhood and Revelations expanding Desmond story into 5 games. During this time Kristen Bell become a star and refused to expand her contract so they had to kill her character. Desmond's story went nowhere and nobody was interested in it so they wrapped it up. It was clear that exploring the past was what made AC popular so that's the direction they went.
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It's still a dog shit move to make and a complete waste of the central hook with 5 games worth of build up and an absolute wet fart of an ending. It's fine that they chased the market for what made the games popular, I am just resentful of them for never seeing that particular project through to a conclusion.

Not as though they couldn't have still spun off into the strictly "historical" games after finishing Desmond's story. The ending just felt like a lazy cop-out and that's why I've not touched an AC game since Black Flag. I am sure there was more than just me excited to play as Assassin Desmond in present day locations based off the rest of the series. A terrible shame.
 
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HE1NZ said:
That's because nobody wanted a future set Assassin's Creed. Literally. People were crying to reduce Desmond stuff.

Originally they had a loose plan for a trilogy. Then franchise exploded exceeding their expectations so they chose to milk it with Botherhood and Revelations expanding Desmond story into 5 games. During this time Kristen Bell become a star and refused to expand her contract so they had to kill her character. Desmond's story went nowhere and nobody was interested in it so they wrapped it up. It was clear that exploring the past was what made AC popular so that's the direction they went.
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And honestly? It was the right choice. Desmond's "story" was the weakest part of AC, the future events were the worst part of all the games and robbed all the momentum out of the story every time you were forced back to the future. If UBI had actually found a good new protagonist after Black Flag then no one would have cared that they killed off Big D. But sadly they didn't, the company is a mess and the sequels lacked cohesive direction (this coming from someone who find Black Flag and Odyssey to be the best games in the franchise).
 
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Amorous Biscuit said:
It's still a dog shit move to make and a complete waste of the central hook with 5 games worth of build up and an absolute wet fart of an ending. It's fine that they chased the market for what made the games popular, I am just resentful of them for never seeing that particular project through to a conclusion.

Not as though they couldn't have still spun off into the strictly "historical" games after finishing Desmond's story. The ending just felt like a lazy cop-out and that's why I've not touched an AC game since Black Flag. I am sure there was more than just me excited to play as Assassin Desmond in present day locations based off the rest of the series. A terrible shame.
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Pagusas said:
And honestly? It was the right choice. Desmond's "story" was the weakest part of AC, the future events were the worst part of all the games and robbed all the momentum out of the story every time you were forced back to the future. If UBI had actually found a good new protagonist after Black Flag then no one would have cared that they killed off Big D. But sadly they didn't, the company is a mess and the sequels lacked cohesive direction (this coming from someone who find Black Flag and Odyssey to be the best games in the franchise).
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Ubisoft just can't win, aren't they?
 
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HE1NZ said:
Ubisoft just can't win, aren't they?
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They can't no, because they failed to pick a direction and go, and by chasing trends and user feedback they ended up pissing everyone off. The best thing they as a company could have done is picked a single direction, a single creative vision, and saw it through. Killing off Desmond is fine, and a good narrative change of pace (and unexpected) but it only works if you follow that up with something great story wise. They didn't. I might love Black Flag and Odyssey, but I 100% recognize story wise they led the franchise down the shitter. It really would have been incredible had Origins, Odyssey and Valhalla (fuck Valhalla), been an amazing trilogy of great story telling following up on the events set forth by black flag… but they dropped that story too!
 
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Pagusas said:
They can't no, because they failed to pick a direction and go, and by chasing trends and user feedback they ended up pissing everyone off. The best thing they as a company could have done is picked a single direction, a single creative vision, and saw it through. Killing off Desmond is fine, and a good narrative change of pace (and unexpected) but it only works if you follow that up with something great story wise. They didn't. I might love Black Flag and Odyssey, but I 100% recognize story wise they led the franchise down the shitter.
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I just had to delete my drafted post because you basically nailed what I was going to say.

Had they been brave enough to see through a narrative and wrap it up to then spin off into the types of AC games we have now, well that would've been fine.

I understand there's some loose references to wider present day events in the newer games though I've not played them so I don't know.

I think it went down the shitter when Patrice Desilets left. He was creative director and seemed to at least some vision of where the story was headed.
 
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Pagusas said:
They can't no, because they failed to pick a direction and go, and by chasing trends and user feedback they ended up pissing everyone off. The best thing they as a company could have done is picked a single direction, a single creative vision, and saw it through. Killing off Desmond is fine, and a good narrative change of pace (and unexpected) but it only works if you follow that up with something great story wise. They didn't. I might love Black Flag and Odyssey, but I 100% recognize story wise they led the franchise down the shitter. It really would have been incredible had Origins, Odyssey and Valhalla (fuck Valhalla), been an amazing trilogy of great story telling following up on the events set forth by black flag… but they dropped that story too!
Click to expand...

Amorous Biscuit said:
I just had to delete my drafted post because you basically nailed what I was going to say.

Had they been brave enough to see through a narrative and wrap it up to then spin off into the types of AC games we have now, well that would've been fine.

I understand there's some loose references to wider present day events in the newer games though I've not played them so I don't know.

I think it went down the shitter when Patrice Desilets left. He was creative director and seemed to at least some vision of where the story was headed.
Click to expand...

Classic example of what happens when something creative is taken out of one person's hands and turned over to a committee.
 
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HE1NZ said:
@Franky Family want a deal?
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Probably the only game that I feel strongly enough to make a deal for to see that it advances to an acceptable spot, would be TOTK. Other than that game, I pretty much decided before the competition began that it would be entirely discussion on my side and in-depth looks into what made these 21st Century greats. TOTK, while not perfect or the type of Zelda entirely desired, is one of the most impressive games in the series to me and if it meant making a deal so that it gets past a game like No Man's Sky it would be an easy decision for me lol
 
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Franky Family said:
Probably the only game that I feel strongly enough to make a deal for to see that it advances to an acceptable spot, would be TOTK. Other than that game, I pretty much decided before the competition began that it would be entirely discussion on my side and in-depth looks into what made these 21st Century greats. TOTK, while not perfect or the type of Zelda entirely desired, is one of the most impressive games in the series to me and if it meant making a deal so that it gets past a game like No Man's Sky it would be an easy decision for me lol
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Let's see what ToTK is up against then.
 
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HE1NZ said:
Let's see what ToTK is up against then.
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The competition has been getting a lot of the lower end games out of the way from what I've been seeing. But that's just my take, haven't played many of the games that have been pitted against one another thus far. I have a feeling l that the middle and end portion of these faceoffs will get a bit dicey. Some jimmies will definitely be getting jumbled. I'll have my capsaicin powder sachel ready when the time comes
 
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