DPAD Top 10 Movies Face/Off #4: Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back vs The Terminator

[Glittertits McGee]

ESB is an absolutely amazing example of a Part 2 in a Trilogy. Anyone can do a first-in-series well; it takes skill to make a good part 2. Trilogies are a special case in series, too, because the three installments need to have their own individual resolutions while also playing specific parts within the overall trilogy, and nothing is harder than nailing part 2 (the "soggy middle").

In this essay I will....


tl;dr ESB wins in my book, die mad

 

[Mickmrly]

I still don't really get what the resolution of Empire Strikes Back was though. Vader being Luke's father doesn't really matter when the rebellion is getting clobbered. I think that the whole Vader/luke head scene should have been done back on Hoth to make it more relevant to the ending. The first half/third of the movie becomes a bit aimless when the Vadar surprise doesn't actually get mentioned until Dagobah.

 

[HE1NZ]

I still don't really get what the resolution of Empire Strikes Back was though. Vader being Luke's father doesn't really matter when the rebellion is getting clobbered. I think that the whole Vader/luke head scene should have been done back on Hoth to make it more relevant to the ending. The first half/third of the movie becomes a bit aimless when the Vadar surprise doesn't actually get mentioned until Dagobah.

They managed to escape from Empire and save the fleet. Luke is now a trained Jedi. Solo and Leia open up about feelings.

 

[teezzy]

ESB is an absolutely amazing example of a Part 2 in a Trilogy. Anyone can do a first-in-series well; it takes skill to make a good part 2. Trilogies are a special case in series, too, because the three installments need to have their own individual resolutions while also playing specific parts within the overall trilogy, and nothing is harder than nailing part 2 (the "soggy middle").

In this essay I will....


tl;dr ESB wins in my book, die mad

Id actually argue its harder to make a quality original flick than a sequel. Once you already have the audience empathizing with and enjoying your characters/setting, its easy to win them over for another round, especially when you can just double down on everything which worked in the first film. Far more difficult to win them over when introducing everything in the initial go around

 

[FactsAreDead]

Wouldn't surprise me if the same people who voted for The Terminator also voted for Commando and that's why we don't have Gladiator in the top 10.

Predator is such a shit movie :/

 

[Glittertits McGee]

Id actually argue its harder to make a quality original flick than a sequel. Once you already have the audience empathizing with and enjoying your characters/setting, its easy to win them over for another round, especially when you can just double down on everything which worked in the first film. Far more difficult to win them over when introducing everything in the initial go around

sure, if it's just a sequel.

ESB isn't a sequel, though; it's part 2 in a trilogy. different thing.

in an open-ended series you have individual stories (sequels), each with their own resolution, that nonetheless continue to tell an overarching story with continued character development on from the first one.

a trilogy has to fit its own three-act structure with the overarching story. it's a lot harder to nail #2 in a trilogy than in an open-ended series, because #2 in a trilogy has to end on a low point for the heroes if it's going to follow the 3-act structure. it is difficult to pull that off and still have a satisfying story that people want to continue. ESB manages it.

there's a reason the OT continually gets referenced in books on plot and structure in writing. it's not because all writers are Star Wars nerds. it's because it's a) a really good example of the Hero's Journey AND trilogy structure and b) well-known enough that even for your readers who AREN'T Star Wars nerds, they'll likely know enough about it to get the examples used.

 

[Mickmrly]

Predator is such a shit movie :/

Have you seen the shit on Netflix and all the other streaming services? Those are shit movies. Predator is a well made 80s action film and is not total garbage like most modern "films".

 

[FactsAreDead]

Have you seen the shit on Netflix and all the other streaming services? Those are shit movies. Predator is a well made 80s action film and is not total garbage like most modern "films".

I don't consider the stuff Netflix makes 'films'. That's Trans-propaganda without cinematic value.

 

[Mickmrly]

Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back wins this vote and will move on to the semi-finals.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

boooooo