90% of what we cared about upto the end of Act 2 was pointless IMO.
Something like Shutter Island is good rug pull. This one doesn't feel very satisfying when for tens of hours it's asked me to care about the world, it's characters and the mystery of the pillar. Im more neutral/luke warm on it rather than out right hating it though.
I think we should of had act 3 content and exploration in Act 2 before the pillar and the final and awsome twist been everyone of all ages dying, save maybe the people in Expredition 33.
Thst been said I haven't finished Act 3. Maybe they can make it work in the end... we shall see.
The world isn't a "dream", it's a real world created by the power of the painters. You can see that the canvas is moving and alive from the outside. And even though the real Verso died, a part of his soul remains in the canvas painting to keep it alive.
The world isn't a "dream", it's a real world created by the power of the painters. You can see that the canvas is moving and alive from the outside. And even though the real Verso died, a part of his soul remains in the canvas painting to keep it alive.
the game raises interesting question about what life actually means and at what point it becomes worth it, on many different levels and the meta canvas thing just reinforces it.
The game starts off with us thinking Lumiere was a normal "real" world, with people fighting against their faith, the gommage, struggling with the implications of population decline, overrun orphanages, losing your loved ones, what to do with the last year of your life, joining the Expedition to fight or accepting it and spend your last moments with your friends & family etc. The Expedition logs also deal with various questions. Then you learn that they've been created inside of the canvas and aren't "real". But these are all people that are created equally, they have the same feelings and are the same as the ones outside of the canvas.
Now does this make them less human? Are they worth less despite being the same as humans outside of the canvas, should they be treated differently simply because they are in a different world? Should they all die because of family drama in the "real" world?
It did seem pointless to me as well, initially. And yes, I decided to wipe everyone there lol. But thinking about it, Lumiere is real for them and they're just as human as everyone else, why should that be worth less?
the game raises interesting question about what life actually means and at what point it becomes worth it, on many different levels and the meta canvas thing just reinforces it.
The game starts off with us thinking Lumiere was a normal "real" world, with people fighting against their faith, the gommage, struggling with the implications of population decline, overrun orphanages, losing your loved ones, what to do with the last year of your life, joining the Expedition to fight or accepting it and spend your last moments with your friends & family etc. The Expedition logs also deal with various questions. Then you learn that they've been created inside of the canvas and aren't "real". But these are all people that are created equally, they have the same feelings and are the same as the ones outside of the canvas.
Now does this make them less human? Are they worth less despite being the same as humans outside of the canvas, should they be treated differently simply because they are in a different world? Should they all die because of family drama in the "real" world?
It did seem pointless to me as well, initially. And yes, I decided to wipe everyone there lol. But thinking about it, Lumiere is real for them and they're just as human as everyone else, why should that be worth less?
It reminded me a lot of the movie Her, stay with me.
While I don't think the ending of that movie is perfect, it raises an interesting question: does it really matter who or what we love, as long as it gives us what we need? If a computer can offer genuine companionship and help us become better people, then why should it matter if it's "real" in the traditional sense? It feels real to the person experiencing it—and honestly, what even is "real life"? We don't have clear answers.
It reminded me a lot of the movie Her, stay with me.
While I don't think the ending of that movie is perfect, it raises an interesting question: does it really matter who or what we love, as long as it gives us what we need? If a computer can offer genuine companionship and help us become better people, then why should it matter if it's "real" in the traditional sense? It feels real to the person experiencing it—and honestly, what even is "real life"? We don't have clear answers.
the game raises interesting question about what life actually means and at what point it becomes worth it, on many different levels and the meta canvas thing just reinforces it.
The game starts off with us thinking Lumiere was a normal "real" world, with people fighting against their faith, the gommage, struggling with the implications of population decline, overrun orphanages, losing your loved ones, what to do with the last year of your life, joining the Expedition to fight or accepting it and spend your last moments with your friends & family etc. The Expedition logs also deal with various questions. Then you learn that they've been created inside of the canvas and aren't "real". But these are all people that are created equally, they have the same feelings and are the same as the ones outside of the canvas.
Now does this make them less human? Are they worth less despite being the same as humans outside of the canvas, should they be treated differently simply because they are in a different world? Should they all die because of family drama in the "real" world?
It did seem pointless to me as well, initially. And yes, I decided to wipe everyone there lol. But thinking about it, Lumiere is real for them and they're just as human as everyone else, why should that be worth less?
I don't think that simply being created means they're not real. Such a concept would have terrible implications for us. Furthermore, we have no reason to assume the world of the painters and writers is the ultimate reality. They certainly don't seem like uncreated and omnipotent beings given that they can die and such.
I don't think that simply being created means they're not real. Such a concept would have terrible implications for us. Furthermore, we have no reason to assume the world of the painters and writers is the ultimate reality. They certainly don't seem like uncreated and omnipotent beings given that they can die and such.
Yes that why is said "real". It tackles the question of creation as well. With Verso, he has literally been created in the image of the "real" one ... Like we've been created in the image of God. Are we therefore not "real" or worth less?
In general, raised questions about the value of virtual worlds and the avatars.
Maelle reminded me of an in-game avatar of a person, like in WoW going on adventures and living in their own world, that means a lot to her. Like people finding their mates in WoW. Felt like Maelle chose to spend her life in WoW at the end, partially.
Hmmm Im still not totally convinced its more than a touch of BS though... you have to buy into the world and stakes your spending so much time in. I think you guys are been a bit generous. Imagine Game of Thrones tried this in its final season.
Sure the stakes are real for one person but 90% of what we partook in was pointless.
I was ALL IN on the Grommage and the mystery of the Pillar. LOVED the twist about the number been a warning and holding off worse. But LOL "most of the party and all of the world isnt real and theres higher issues with people weve never met", isnt the satisfying answer I was looking for. I get the existential questions posed, but to me thats like making out the story needed this, when the initial mystery was more than enough.
Dont hate it, dont love it. Is the story worse for it? Yes IMO.
Hmmm Im still not totally convinced its more than a touch of BS though... you have to buy into the world and stakes your spending so much time in. I think you guys are been a bit generous. Imagine Game of Thrones tried this in its final season.
Sure the stakes are real for one person but 90% of what we partook in was pointless.
I was ALL IN on the Grommage and the mystery of the Pillar. LOVED the twist about the number been a warning and holding off worse. But LOL "most of the party and all of the world isnt real and theres higher issues with people weve never met", isnt the satisfying answer I was looking for. I get the existential questions posed, but to me thats like making out the story needed this, when the initial mystery was more than enough.
Dont hate it, dont love it. Is the story worse for it? Yes IMO.
It's pointless and not "real" when you thought of them as humans before the twist, felt their pain and never questioned their humanity? Why are they suddenly worth less, just because of the way they've been created? They're unique beings that behave and feel 100% like the humans outside of a canvas. A canvas is just another world that's created. If the game would be about another adventure in that world without telling you the twist, you wouldn't even have one thought about these people and their fate being worthless.
It's pointless and not "real" when you thought of them as humans before the twist, felt their pain and never questioned their humanity? Why are they suddenly worth less, just because of the way they've been created? They're unique beings that behave and feel 100% like the humans outside of a canvas. A canvas is just another world that's created. If the game would be about another adventure in that world without telling you the twist, you wouldn't even have one thought about these people and their fate being worthless.
Would you say that's narratively satisfying to the initial questions posed though? I'll reserve final judgement until I complete the game. I still love it, and can't wait to get back to it. At least the twists aren't boring or obvious, so its far from terrible in my eyes .
Would you say that's narratively satisfying to the initial questions posed though? I'll reserve final judgement until I complete the game. I still love it, and can't wait to get back to it. At least the twists aren't boring or obvious, so its far from terrible in my eyes .
Oh you didn't even finish the story yet? Go for it, Act III is basically just the final level and boss fight, you can do all the optional stuff after that even without NG+. It wraps the theme and the topics up nicely.
Oh you didn't even finish the story yet? Go for it, Act III is basically just the final level and boss fight, you can do all the optional stuff after that even without NG+. It wraps the theme and the topics up nicely.
I was debating if it was better to leave the final boss until after the optional stuff. I think otherwise I might lose the drive to be the most powerful I can be.
I was debating if it was better to leave the final boss until after the optional stuff. I think otherwise I might lose the drive to be the most powerful I can be.
Unwarranted. The strongest bosses are the optional ones and they're way stronger than the final boss. And you can just keep playing after beating him when you load the game again.
90% of what we cared about upto the end of Act 2 was pointless IMO.
Something like Shutter Island is good rug pull. This one doesn't feel very satisfying when for tens of hours it's asked me to care about the world, it's characters and the mystery of the pillar. Im more neutral/luke warm on it rather than out right hating it though.
I think we should of had act 3 content and exploration in Act 2 before the pillar and the final and awsome twist been everyone of all ages dying, save maybe the people in Expredition 33.
Thst been said I haven't finished Act 3. Maybe they can make it work in the end... we shall see.
Yes that why is said "real". It tackles the question of creation as well. With Verso, he has literally been created in the image of the "real" one ... Like we've been created in the image of God. Are we therefore not "real" or worth less?
In general, raised questions about the value of virtual worlds and the avatars.
Maelle reminded me of an in-game avatar of a person, like in WoW going on adventures and living in their own world, that means a lot to her. Like people finding their mates in WoW. Felt like Maelle chose to spend her life in WoW at the end, partially.
Yeah, it all would have been pointless if we determine that they weren't actually real and sentient beings within their universe. The introduction of the painter's world and meta reality did annoy me, though, because we're naturally inclined to care more about higher level things, so I felt as if that is the reality we were meant to care about it, but the developers did little to flesh it out or give us a reason to care about them. Ultimately, it did make the whole thing feel a bit pointless, especially if you decided to go with the ending that erased the painted world.
Finished the game. Some good cutscenes at the end. I did melt everything in my way though, which felt odd/anti climatic.
Anyone else think he was a bit of dick at the end? Its right to wonder about the implications of living as he is now, but felt like he was proper willing to throw the other party members under a bus (who would cease to exist if the Canvas was destroyed). Such a change of heart so strongly at last minute felt a little off.
Sooooo does it explain how/why Maelle and Verso are suddenly alive after the gommage nuke? I thought the idea was Verso was tired of it all. And you see them both die. Then suddenly they are back at the beginning of act 3.
Okay after typing that ...I think I may get it. Alicia was snapped back to reality and simply came back in the canvas. Verso can never truly die because a part of his soul is always attached to the canvas. So the canvas must be destroyed for him to die. Me thinks ...
EDIT: OKAYYY....CONFUSED AGAIN....Verso was dying off there for a second after Renoir decided to fight you and Maelle stops it. So why the f did he survive the gommage if he isn't truly immortal.
Finished the game. Some good cutscenes at the end. I did melt everything in my way though, which felt odd/anti climatic.
Anyone else think he was a bit of dick at the end? Its right to wonder about the implications of living as he is now, but felt like he was proper willing to throw the other party members under a bus (who would cease to exist if the Canvas was destroyed). Such a change of heart so strongly at last minute felt a little off.
On the contrary Verso is the good guy since he's trying to free the last piece of the real Verso's soul that is trapped in the canvas to keep it going. The choice between Maelle and Verso at the end is a choice of woke vs based. If anything Maelle is being selfish because she wants to stay in this fantasy world rather than face her real world. Keep in mind that all the people you see in Maelle's ending are not the originals, they were painted by Maelle from her memories, the originals were painted by the real Verso. It's plain as day that Maelle's ending is the bad ending, and that the "happiness" there is all an illusion. Verso's ending is the actual good ending.
On the contrary Verso is the good guy since he's trying to free the last piece of the real Verso's soul that is trapped in the canvas to keep it going. The choice between Maelle and Verso at the end is a choice of woke vs based. If anything Maelle is being selfish because she wants to stay in this fantasy world rather than face her real world. Keep in mind that all the people you see in Maelle's ending are not the originals, they were painted by Maelle from her memories, the originals were painted by the real Verso. It's plain as day that Maelle's ending is the bad ending, and that the "happiness" there is all an illusion. Verso's ending is the actual good ending.
I don't think there was a "good" ending and a "bad" one personally. Only perhaps if you see the world and the characters in the canvas as nothing. Or if the real world with a unfunctional family and dusfigured life as clearly the better one, which of course is debatable. My Verso was fucking Sciel and he tried to wipe her from exsistance without so much as a good buy. I get he had good reasons also, but it was so quick because it needed to be tied up quickly for artificual reasons. It kind of reminded me like when Joel brought Ellie to the Fireflys and they had to operate right that second without talking/explaining to them both why the sacrifice was needed (or even conscented to).
It was a great ending but i think that tiny part of it could of been done better. Verso himself for the longest time was totally fine with bringing people back (as can be seen in his audio diary).
Brother.....what the actual FUCK?! STENDHAL...I just wasted sprong in one hit, 2.5 mil DMG. Is this her go to move every time in act 3 or do I need anything else?
Brother.....what the actual FUCK?! STENDHAL...I just wasted sprong in one hit, 2.5 mil DMG. Is this her go to move every time in act 3 or do I need anything else?
Just keep buffing it. +50% first hit damage. +Start Inverted. +5% each round. +25% burning Damage + Roulette.
+Start in Virtuous Stance Sword.
+Fortunes Fury + Powerful.
+ Mark and Burn.
Etc. Can do crazy amount of damage. Play twice is essential as well. To put all the buffs on and if Mielle has +3ap on kills, you'll probably be able to use Stendhal twice if it one shots the first time.
Just keep buffing it. +50% first hit damage. +Start Inverted. +5% each round. +25% burning Damage + Roulette.
+Start in Virtuous Stance Sword.
+Fortunes Fury + Powerful.
+ Mark and Burn.
Etc. Can do crazy amount of damage. Play twice is essential as well. To put all the buffs on and if Mielle has +3ap on kills, you'll probably be able to use Stendhal twice if it one shots the first time.
So this is THE boss attack. I don't use anything else. Fire stack or anything else? I've already pumped Maelle with most of what you've said. Not using sciel so no fury, but this may change if I get some stupid ridiculous boss like Penance . Is fire stack even viable at this stage? Does it do much vs raw damage?
Should I be focusing single strike moves now that have extreme damage?
I don't think there was a "good" ending and a "bad" one personally. Only perhaps if you see the world and the characters in the canvas as nothing. Or if the real world with a unfunctional family and dusfigured life as clearly the better one, which of course is debatable. My Verso was fucking Sciel and he tried to wipe her from exsistance without so much as a good buy. I get he had good reasons also, but it was so quick because it needed to be tied up quickly for artificual reasons. It kind of reminded me like when Joel brought Ellie to the Fireflys and they had to operate right that second without talking/explaining to them both why the sacrifice was needed (or even conscented to).
It was a great ending but i think that tiny part of it could of been done better. Verso himself for the longest time was totally fine with bringing people back (as can be seen in his audio diary).
Tlthat going with Verso is actually the "good" ending, at least as good as it could get. The family is united and at peace, even Maelle accepts it, a proper funeral for Verso. All being able to finally say goodbye, finally overcoming the trauma.The Maelle ending shows a tortured Verso and a Maelle that's forever lost in the Canvas, melting with it.
There wasn't really an unnatural twist with Verso imo. His whole motivation from the beginning was to end it, ending his suffering in this fake world, he realized that he was just a prop for the family to deal with the death of the real Verso. Forced to stay alive. The Maelle ending hammered that home. Him being presented on a stage, clearly suffering and not liking it, like a pet for the selfish Maelle because she can't let go, not caring how much he suffers. Totally living in her delusion.
There's a case to be made that Renoir was actually the good guy.
In act 3....is there any multi hit I should prioritize over a massive single hit skill.... cuz it feels like get rid of multi hit skills time now that I have limit break
In act 3....is there any multi hit I should prioritize over a massive single hit skill.... cuz it feels like get rid of multi hit skills time now that I have limit break
Maelle single hit towards Stendhal. Lune and Sciel have good multi hit skills like Lune with her elemental attacks that stack burn, and Sciel has some good ones as well.
Well you don't have to look far. The first place I went in act 3 is endless tower. And it isn't hard and I'm super leveling....more than I really want to if I'm being honest.
Maelle single hit towards Stendhal. Lune and Sciel have good multi hit skills like Lune with her elemental attacks that stack burn, and Sciel has some good ones as well.
Tlthat going with Verso is actually the "good" ending, at least as good as it could get. The family is united and at peace, even Maelle accepts it, a proper funeral for Verso. All being able to finally say goodbye, finally overcoming the trauma.The Maelle ending shows a tortured Verso and a Maelle that's forever lost in the Canvas, melting with it.
There wasn't really an unnatural twist with Verso imo. His whole motivation from the beginning was to end it, ending his suffering in this fake world, he realized that he was just a prop for the family to deal with the death of the real Verso. Forced to stay alive. The Maelle ending hammered that home. Him being presented on a stage, clearly suffering and not liking it, like a pet for the selfish Maelle because she can't let go, not caring how much he suffers. Totally living in her delusion.
There's a case to be made that Renoir was actually the good guy.
My ending was certianly mixed from the details it gave away. All the negatives you mentioned but also Gustave and Sophie were alive, Schiel was reunited with her Husband, the real Verso (?) had been reborn and given a second chance etc.
Let me ask you if it turned out one person in this world was "real" and had created you and your family/friends would he be right to just throw it away and condem you all to oblivion or would his struggle be worth sustaining the thousands of lives created? I think it's nuanced, but yes by sounds of it the devs are slightly hedging their bets on one ending been the more altrustic of the two.
As for Verso's sudden turn, id have loved it if he had come to a last minute realisation... say Mielle's version of Shiel had acted different to what she did before. But from what we got its heavily implied both before blip and after are the same character and memories.
My ending was certianly mixed from the details it gave away. All the negatives you mentioned but also Gustave and Sophie were alive, Schiel was reunited with her Husband, the real Verso (?) had been reborn and given a second chance etc.
Let me ask you if it turned out one person in this world was "real" and had created you and your family/friends would he be right to just throw it away and condem you all to oblivion or would his struggle be worth sustaining the thousands of lives created? I think it's nuanced, but yes by sounds of it the devs are slightly hedging their bets on one ending been the more altrustic of the two.
I think the question about the validity of the painted world is what makes it interesting, every option is sad and there isn't a correct solution. I can't remember thinking that much about an ending of a game or ever discussing the implications that much with people. Great achievement by the game tbh.
Brother.....what the actual FUCK?! STENDHAL...I just wasted sprong in one hit, 2.5 mil DMG. Is this her go to move every time in act 3 or do I need anything else?
I gotta know, how are you guys finding the super pictos once you're in Act III? You using guides or just coming across them? I'm doing this game totally blind and there's just so many places to explore that it seems like dumb luck if you come across something that's really good.
Alright well maelle is clearly in God mode with stendahl to the point it's almost not fun. And I think I have all but one foot left for monoco in which I'm bringing lune back into the fold. The question is....what's her best end game weapon?
I'm reading trick Genesis is outclassed in act 3 by hell and lightning dance.
Absolutely. I fucking love Renoir, he might be my favorite character. Just a dude trying desperately to wrangle the emotional women in his life.
The wife is doing a New Game+ playthrough and caught something we missed the first go round...
Monoco/Noco were the painted versions of the family dogs. God damn, man. Just makes the Monoco/Verso relationship sweeter and kind of explains why Monoco is obsessed with collecting legs (bones).
Absolutely. I fucking love Renoir, he might be my favorite character. Just a dude trying desperately to wrangle the emotional women in his life.
The wife is doing a New Game+ playthrough and caught something we missed the first go round...
Monoco/Noco were the painted versions of the family dogs. God damn, man. Just makes the Monoco/Verso relationship sweeter and kind of explains why Monoco is obsessed with collecting legs (bones).
Ope....it's because it's in Renoir's drafts. That's the last foot baby. Then I'm putting monoco to bed for good. I like him as a support but end game it's feeling like sciel double damage buff time.
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