[Mickmrly]

Hello my fellow D-paddy's. I reside in Western Australia and it has recently been announced that our state border will be closed for a minimum of seven months more

Apart from being locked in like a prisoner, there are various unpleasant things about living in Western Australia…

But the point of this thread is to discuss which countries of the world would be the easiest/ cheapest to relocate to. I have been doing some research and it seems that South-East Asia, South America and Eastern Europe generally come up as being cheapest to relocate/retire to.
An example link: Best places to retire on a budget

What are your thoughts on relocating? Do you have any experiences within these cheap countries? Where would you like to escape/retire to?

 

[Nush]

Those countries are cheap for a reason.

 

[Soodanim]

I've always thought New Zealand might be a nice place to move to, it's nice and out of the way. Probably not cheap, though.

Same with Scandinavian countries. They don't bother with international politics, they just get on with their own thing.

 

[Mickmrly]

Those countries are cheap for a reason.

What about Spain and Portugal though? Some of the relocating websites talk about them being cheap. Don't they have good health systems and relatively stable governments?

 

[lock2k]

Hello my fellow D-paddy's. I reside in Western Australia and it has recently been announced that our state border will be closed for a minimum of seven months more

Apart from being locked in like a prisoner, there are various unpleasant things about living in Western Australia…

But the point of this thread is to discuss which countries of the world would be the easiest/ cheapest to relocate to. I have been doing some research and it seems that South-East Asia, South America and Eastern Europe generally come up as being cheapest to relocate/retire to.
An example link: Best places to retire on a budget

What are your thoughts on relocating? Do you have any experiences within these cheap countries? Where would you like to escape/retire to?

WTF is happening to Australia? Seriously... I don't understand it.

Brazil is great if you have money. You can live like a fucking king here with foreign money that is worth five time or more than our local currency. It sucks for most of the locals but foreign people love living here. lol

My father lives in a beach paradise city in the state of Rio Grande do Norte, in the northeast, where it's sunny every day of the year and it's full of people from Europe and other parts of the world who open local businesses and live like kings. It's cheap to live there and it's not a violent place at all.

 

[Nicktendo]

What about Spain and Portugal though? Some of the relocating websites talk about them being cheap. Don't they have good health systems and relatively stable governments?

Spain and Portugal are good bets - great food, Aussie style weather and relatively stable. Will be very cheap coming from an Aussie budget. Italy and Greece also, but they are less stable politically.

Eastern Europe also worth a shout if you can handle the Winter weather. Cheaper than anywhere else in Europe. Poland and Hungary more based with nationalist governments, Bulgaria has mountains and is very cheap. Romania not bad for an ex-pat but very poor in places. Baltic states also stable but the coldest of the bunch, only 3-4 months of good weather. Estonia is the most stable and ex-pat friendly but also the most expensive. The Baltics are also big fans of harsh lockdowns and draconian rules in COVID times, but nowhere near as bad as Australia (yet).

Germany and France are... LOL just kidding.

Health systems are generally good all across Europe, especially if you pay for it (cheaper outside of Western Europe). Western countries are typically better than Eastern if you go government healthcare (France, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium). Spain and Portugal probably not the best from that POV.

 

[Optimus]

Hello my fellow D-paddy's. I reside in Western Australia and it has recently been announced that our state border will be closed for a minimum of seven months more

Apart from being locked in like a prisoner, there are various unpleasant things about living in Western Australia…

But the point of this thread is to discuss which countries of the world would be the easiest/ cheapest to relocate to. I have been doing some research and it seems that South-East Asia, South America and Eastern Europe generally come up as being cheapest to relocate/retire to.
An example link: Best places to retire on a budget

What are your thoughts on relocating? Do you have any experiences within these cheap countries? Where would you like to escape/retire to?

I've had a curiosity about Western Australia. Seems like the population would be so sparse since a lot of it is desert. Are you near the coast? Are they shutting down borders due to COVID? I mean, there's so few people... I wouldn't think that COVID would even be on the radar in a place where even the dirt is trying to kill you.

 

[lock2k]

Wait, Australia has borders? lol

 

[Mihos]

 

[HariSeldon]

Portugal has amazing food and it's cheap to eat out but I'm not sure it's that cheap to buy a place out there - me and the wife go to Carvoieiro regularly and love it and often check property prices and it's more than you might expect. Great place though.

 

[Mickmrly]

Thank you @lock2k , @Nicktendo and @HariSeldon for the insights. Thinking over things, I will probably focus more on Spanish/Portugese countries in the future. While Eastern Europe could also be somewhere to move, I think the language would be a bit harder to learn with the j's and z's. I look forward to travelling around South America and South Western Europe after I am actually allowed to travel internationally.

 

[Mickmrly]

I've had a curiosity about Western Australia. Seems like the population would be so sparse since a lot of it is desert. Are you near the coast? Are they shutting down borders due to COVID? I mean, there's so few people... I wouldn't think that COVID would even be on the radar in a place where even the dirt is trying to kill you.

There is only about 2 million people in the huge state of Western Australia, with almost all of them within 100km of the main city of Perth, on the western coast. The Australian federal government has closed international borders due to COVID but our state has gone beyond and closed our state border as well for our "safety". We have had very few cases of COVID and only about 9 deaths from the beginning of the pandemic, however our state border is closed regardless of vaccination status until April next year at the earliest. The wildlife isn't too dangerous in Perth but the constant backburning of the trees to minimise bushfires isn't so good for the lungs.

 

[lock2k]

Thank you @lock2k , @Nicktendo and @HariSeldon for the insights. Thinking over things, I will probably focus more on Spanish/Portugese countries in the future. While Eastern Europe could also be somewhere to move, I think the language would be a bit harder to learn with the j's and z's. I look forward to travelling around South America and South Western Europe after I am actually allowed to travel internationally.

I dream of moving to Portugal and I also love Spain. Incredible places. And it helps I'm fluent in both languages

 

[Relativ9]

I relocated from Norway to Romania a few years back, as a digital nomad it's great cause I earn a western salary that makes that puts me in a "wealthy" catagory by Romanian standards. The language is most closely comparable to Italian with a few Slavic influences so it's a lot easier to learn than other Eastern European languages, and property is relatively cheap if you don't care about living centrally in Bucharest or Cluj (the tech hub). Me an the wife will be buying 3000m2 early next year fo which we'll be paying about 35k Euros and it's 20minutes away from a city of 200k people.

Its better off than most other Eastern European countries when it comes to things like public goods systems, but it's still Eastern Europe so we're focusing on needing as little from the government as possible (off-grid, private healthcare, private school for our future kid).

Also yeah Portugal is great I you want a more expensive but more stable and Mediterranean feel

 

[HariSeldon]

Thank you @lock2k , @Nicktendo and @HariSeldon for the insights. Thinking over things, I will probably focus more on Spanish/Portugese countries in the future. While Eastern Europe could also be somewhere to move, I think the language would be a bit harder to learn with the j's and z's. I look forward to travelling around South America and South Western Europe after I am actually allowed to travel internationally.

On the language front, Portuguese is harder than Spanish and less widely used, and beware that European Spanish and Portuguese are quite distant from their South American variants.

 

[Nester99]

Panama

 

[King of Foxes]

If you are white cone to the baltics, probably not Estonia but Latvia and Lithuania. Almost no immigration, no crime, no blm or anything darkie related.

Just look kinda like us and learn the language and you can stay. Coming from a rich country im sure you could support yourself...local good salary is 1100 euro

 

[DonDonDonPata]

Not a specific place to live, but if you can afford to relocate, you should buy a piece of land and avoid cities with population >200k. Avoid "growing areas" and cities with "booming economies" because this is an advertisement, often paired w bureaucratic tax breaks and incentives. It doesn't last and it's not intended to attract long-term residents.

No amount of social services and amenities will compensate for the exponential growth of crime and frustration, as it's a simple mathematical equation: every person is capable of x interactions per day, and so the potential # of interactions in a given area goes up sharply the more people you pack in. More people means more roll of the dice. Doesn't matter if the other citizens seem to be mostly nice. Doesn't matter if you take all precautions. Roll enough dice and you'll get that "impossible" 0.1% roll of a meth head jumping you on the way to the same corner-store you've always visited.

 

[Relativ9]

Not a specific place to live, but if you can afford to relocate, you should buy a piece of land and avoid cities with population >200k. Avoid "growing areas" and cities with "booming economies" because this is an advertisement, often paired w bureaucratic tax breaks and incentives. It doesn't last and it's not intended to attract long-term residents.

No amount of social services and amenities will compensate for the exponential growth of crime and frustration, as it's a simple mathematical equation: every person is capable of x interactions per day, and so the potential # of interactions in a given area goes up sharply the more people you pack in. More people means more roll of the dice. Doesn't matter if the other citizens seem to be mostly nice. Doesn't matter if you take all precautions. Roll enough dice and you'll get that "impossible" 0.1% roll of a meth head jumping you on the way to the same corner-store you've always visited.

Yeah pretty spot on, living near cities is nice though...just not near enough to be in walking distance. Like 30-40 minutes by car and you can still head into the city whenever you need to visit that one special shop, concerts, ect, ect. Also buy a piece of land big enough that you can make your own leisure activities on it, personally I plan to set up an archery range, a volleyball space, and a big outdoor stone oven, smoker, and fire pit. Also with a large investment in space/land initially cost saving opportunities can present themselves in the long run, for example space for a solar farm and a small wind turbine, digging a well for groundwater (or as we hope to doing buying land that already has one dug), growing your own veggies and having handful of chickens, heck if you don't mind the smell/can keep it far enough away from living areas you can even have a couple of pigs.

 

[DonDonDonPata]

Yeah pretty spot on, living near cities is nice though...just not near enough to be in walking distance. Like 30-40 minutes by car and you can still head into the city whenever you need to visit that one special shop, concerts, ect, ect. Also buy a piece of land big enough that you can make your own leisure activities on it, personally I plan to set up an archery range, a volleyball space, and a big outdoor stone oven, smoker, and fire pit. Also with a large investment in space/land initially cost saving opportunities can present themselves in the long run, for example space for a solar farm and a small wind turbine, digging a well for groundwater (or as we hope to doing buying land that already has one dug), growing your own veggies and having handful of chickens, heck if you don't mind the smell/can keep it far enough away from living areas you can even have a couple of pigs.

Agreed. MI here, for context. We're in an urban area. We have 1/2 acre to grow food on, but at least seven liquor stores, three chinese grocery stores, and four low-income apt complexes within a mile. I can't imagine why anyone would willingly want to live in a denser area. Lots of cities in Michigan (especially ones tied into the auto industry) have bizarre pockets / mixes of urban and rural like that.

Even if it's an indoor grow rack or a small windowsill planter, everyone should be learning how to grow food. Hope you and yours get the sort of homestead you described

 

[lock2k]

Yeah pretty spot on, living near cities is nice though...just not near enough to be in walking distance. Like 30-40 minutes by car and you can still head into the city whenever you need to visit that one special shop, concerts, ect, ect. Also buy a piece of land big enough that you can make your own leisure activities on it, personally I plan to set up an archery range, a volleyball space, and a big outdoor stone oven, smoker, and fire pit. Also with a large investment in space/land initially cost saving opportunities can present themselves in the long run, for example space for a solar farm and a small wind turbine, digging a well for groundwater (or as we hope to doing buying land that already has one dug), growing your own veggies and having handful of chickens, heck if you don't mind the smell/can keep it far enough away from living areas you can even have a couple of pigs.

This is more or less my situation. I live 30 minutes from São Paulo, which is a huge ass fucking big city, but my city is smaller and it has everything I need, plus it's much calmer and has a lot less crime and stuff like that. Schools are cheaper and the cost of living is cheaper as well. So I get the benefits of being close to the bigger city while I have the benefits of living in a less crowded place.

 

[XOR]

What about Spain and Portugal though? Some of the relocating websites talk about them being cheap. Don't they have good health systems and relatively stable governments?

My issue with Spain is that I think that's one of the countries that doesn't have double jeopardy, and I think there were some guys accused of rape that were found innocent and were being tried again for the same crime due to no double jeopardy.

If climate change continues to worsen or we truly are in peak fossil fuel, most of the world will be in turmoil shortly. You want to be in a country with enough military and influence to secure access to fuel and food.

The U.S. is expensive if you want to drive a car, and want a big house, or to live in a city. But you can see that even though inflation is changing this, the cost of groceries is not that expensive in general, and electricity and water is very cheap in many states. A small house or apartment, especially if a bit run down can still be obtained for reasonable price, and only needs some repair. If going to the states I'd go with one with year round good climate, you don't want to depend on external infrastructure that worse case may not be there(such as necessary heating in many states).

I don't think rentals are good idea given that many nations have printed tons of money and inflation is bound to get out of control with potential for global economic collapse. Rental prices are rapidly going up, and bound to go up. Fixed mortgages have fixed low payments, and as the price of everything goes up so does the value of real estate stocks and wages, essentially making any fixed payment ever smaller.

 

[Mickmrly]

Not a specific place to live, but if you can afford to relocate, you should buy a piece of land and avoid cities with population >200k. Avoid "growing areas" and cities with "booming economies" because this is an advertisement, often paired w bureaucratic tax breaks and incentives. It doesn't last and it's not intended to attract long-term residents.

No amount of social services and amenities will compensate for the exponential growth of crime and frustration, as it's a simple mathematical equation: every person is capable of x interactions per day, and so the potential # of interactions in a given area goes up sharply the more people you pack in. More people means more roll of the dice. Doesn't matter if the other citizens seem to be mostly nice. Doesn't matter if you take all precautions. Roll enough dice and you'll get that "impossible" 0.1% roll of a meth head jumping you on the way to the same corner-store you've always visited.

When looking for places abroad or even just domestically, I do tend to look at growing areas as thats where I am now. I usually do that in Australia because in the suburbs houses you can get relatively cheap houses, while in more regional/rural areas you usually pay more for run down houses and less amenities. Finding a good regional/rural area that has a quality house would be the best bet, but it is very elusive here in Australia.

 

[DonDonDonPata]

When looking for places abroad or even just domestically, I do tend to look at growing areas as thats where I am now. I usually do that in Australia because in the suburbs houses you can get relatively cheap houses, while in more regional/rural areas you usually pay more for run down houses and less amenities. Finding a good regional/rural area that has a quality house would be the best bet, but it is very elusive here in Australia.

In fairness, I didn't want to exclude literally all growing areas. Rather, just the "growing areas" that tend to be highlighted as such by gov't incentives and heavy marketing, not necessarily by natural growth.

 

[El Rey]

I always hear great things about the Philippines, Singapore, and Thailand. Just don't bang the girls there, they might not be girls.

 

[HariSeldon]

I always hear great things about the Philippines, Singapore, and Thailand. Just don't bang the girls there, they might not be girls.

Thailand was a lot of fun, great food, 10 years ago I had a 3 bed house for £150/month, water was £1/month, electric was £10, a good meal at a nice restaurant was £3 or eating something delicious where the locals ate was £0.50.
I've kept an eye on the town I lived in and Covid has made a hell of a mess of the local economy so it may be a risk these days.
Some locals weren't keen on the farang population which is fair since we drove up prices of accommodation and hookers (not me personally since I don't believe in paying for it) and the police tend to take the view that if something happens it's the farang's fault. Corruption is rife and you'll regularly be expected to bribe the police and immigration even if you're behaving yourself.

 

[Relativ9]

I always hear great things about the Philippines, Singapore, and Thailand. Just don't bang the girls there, they might not be girls.

I find you want to be somewhere that's cheap but not that cheap. The dark side of overly poor countries (or contries with large poor communities) is of course the general quality of facilities and public services, the crime, the corruption, and the position of being easily picked out as "not one of us", and this goes beyond skin color too, there is a way you look, behave and carry yourself that is a dead give away that you are someone to be targeted if you have more than 99.9% of the population.

You want to be somewhere where the middle-class is the largest group by far, and where that group is still substantially below your average cost of living in your native contry/where you earn your living from, as a freelancer this usually means US (despite being Norwegian, 90% of my clients are from the US). Out of that list big city Thailand is probably the best bet, Singapore is not cheap at all (rent in particular is actually higher than a lot of places in the US), and I'd stay far away from the Philippines as they have some really fucked up draconian laws.

 

[El Rey]

...since we drove up prices of accommodation and hookers (not me personally since I don't believe in paying for it)...

 

[HariSeldon]

I find you want to be somewhere that's cheap but not that cheap. The dark side of overly poor countries (or contries with large poor communities) is of course the general quality of facilities and public services, the crime, the corruption, and the position of being easily picked out as "not one of us", and this goes beyond skin color too, there is a way you look, behave and carry yourself that is a dead give away that you are someone to be targeted if you have more than 99.9% of the population.

You want to be somewhere where the middle-class is the largest group by far, and where that group is still substantially below your average cost of living in your native contry/where you earn your living from, as a freelancer this usually means US (despite being Norwegian, 90% of my clients are from the US). Out of that list big city Thailand is probably the best bet, Singapore is not cheap at all (rent in particular is actually higher than a lot of places in the US), and I'd stay far away from the Philippines as they have some really fucked up draconian laws.

On Thailand - there are good smaller cities - certainly the one I was in was pretty decent. Medical care is not free but is actually pretty good and for instance getting antibiotics if you're suffering is a lot easier than in the UK and dirt cheap. In terms of crime I'd be more concerned in Bangkok and probably Pattaya (not been to the latter but I'm informed there's a lot of Russian mafia) - basically avoid the sex tourism cities. Everywhere has it of course, all bars are brothels, but some places manage to combine brothel with place you can take your family. It's an odd setup. But yeah where I was I didn't have any issues but I didn't go round flashing the cash, lived in an entirely Thai area rather than a farang gated community, etc.

Corruption is mostly immigration, but the cops will stop you for nothing for a 300 baht fine and if you're in an accident with another vehicle it's the biggest vehicle that's to blame unless one driver is farang and the other Thai, in which case the farang is to blame - I know plenty of people stung by that, and a big bill to go with it. The cops have guns and will use them and often do so while drunk in karaoke bars so one needs to beware of that.

Education is an interesting one - international schools are good, often looser structurally in terms of curriculum but still giving iGCSE qualifications, the local schools are useless with 60 kids crammed in a class, one teacher up front talking, kids copying and another teacher on riot control hitting the kids with sticks if they step out of line.

As a farang you will get ripped off if they get half a chance, but learning a bit of Thai can bridge that gap. I generally ended up paying about half way between Thai and Farang price for most things. Speaking Thai shows you've been there a while, you're not a tourist, and you have a decent eye on how shit works. They do I think understand the long-stayers don't have the same amount of cash to splash.

Last but not least, if you go to Thailand, don't be the white westerner who gets a hooker, falls in love and marries her. Those guys seem to have an awful lot of accidents falling off balconies. Just saying. Also, check for penis. I used to laugh my head off in the local nightclub watching the kathoeys hit on the tourists and the tourists loving it and then seeing the slow dawning realisation that they've just been snogging the face off a man. The kathoeys think it's hilarious. I will also note that they fight hard and dirty - do not cross them.

 

[Optimus]

If I was looking for a nice cheap first-world place in a country such as the USA, I would think that Maine might be it. It's on the coast. It's not too far from some big areas, but it's not so close that it's bustling with people. In fact, Maine has been trying to attract educated people to come back because, well... people grow up in Maine and leave for college, and then don't return. That tells me that a lot of Maine is still very beautiful, and if you take advantage of some of their state deals for moving there, you could get a piece of beautiful Maine with some assistance.

Believe me, Maine is very beautiful. I've never been there, but I used to write a set of fantasy stories about some characters who did. I've seen enough from the internet to know.

 

[El Rey]

On Thailand - there are good smaller cities - certainly the one I was in was pretty decent. Medical care is not free but is actually pretty good and for instance getting antibiotics if you're suffering is a lot easier than in the UK and dirt cheap. In terms of crime I'd be more concerned in Bangkok and probably Pattaya (not been to the latter but I'm informed there's a lot of Russian mafia) - basically avoid the sex tourism cities. Everywhere has it of course, all bars are brothels, but some places manage to combine brothel with place you can take your family. It's an odd setup. But yeah where I was I didn't have any issues but I didn't go round flashing the cash, lived in an entirely Thai area rather than a farang gated community, etc.

Corruption is mostly immigration, but the cops will stop you for nothing for a 300 baht fine and if you're in an accident with another vehicle it's the biggest vehicle that's to blame unless one driver is farang and the other Thai, in which case the farang is to blame - I know plenty of people stung by that, and a big bill to go with it. The cops have guns and will use them and often do so while drunk in karaoke bars so one needs to beware of that.

Education is an interesting one - international schools are good, often looser structurally in terms of curriculum but still giving iGCSE qualifications, the local schools are useless with 60 kids crammed in a class, one teacher up front talking, kids copying and another teacher on riot control hitting the kids with sticks if they step out of line.

As a farang you will get ripped off if they get half a chance, but learning a bit of Thai can bridge that gap. I generally ended up paying about half way between Thai and Farang price for most things. Speaking Thai shows you've been there a while, you're not a tourist, and you have a decent eye on how shit works. They do I think understand the long-stayers don't have the same amount of cash to splash.

Last but not least, if you go to Thailand, don't be the white westerner who gets a hooker, falls in love and marries her. Those guys seem to have an awful lot of accidents falling off balconies. Just saying. Also, check for penis. I used to laugh my head off in the local nightclub watching the kathoeys hit on the tourists and the tourists loving it and then seeing the slow dawning realisation that they've just been snogging the face off a man. The kathoeys think it's hilarious. I will also note that they fight hard and dirty - do not cross them.

@Musky_Cheese can we please update his tag to "Check for penis"

 

[Mickmrly]

Last but not least, if you go to Thailand, don't be the white westerner who gets a hooker, falls in love and marries her. Those guys seem to have an awful lot of accidents falling off balconies. Just saying. Also, check for penis. I used to laugh my head off in the local nightclub watching the kathoeys hit on the tourists and the tourists loving it and then seeing the slow dawning realisation that they've just been snogging the face off a man. The kathoeys think it's hilarious. I will also note that they fight hard and dirty - do not cross them.

I think you've ruined Thailand for me Hari. All I wanted was a pretty lady and nice food, not a ladyboy who fights me.

 

[El Rey]

I think you've ruined Thailand for me Hari. All I wanted was a pretty lady and nice food, not a ladyboy who fights me.

And throws you off a balcony

 

[Ornlu]

My bugout plan country is Uruguay. Western European standard of living; S.American prices. Most people live in the capital, and everyone else has a mostly country lifestyle. It would be easy for a 1st worlder to move there and have a very high standard of living in the country, and be left alone.

...local good salary is 1100 euro

...A week? A month?...a year?!?

Agreed. MI here, for context. We're in an urban area. We have 1/2 acre to grow food on, but at least seven liquor stores, three chinese grocery stores, and four low-income apt complexes within a mile. I can't imagine why anyone would willingly want to live in a denser area. Lots of cities in Michigan (especially ones tied into the auto industry) have bizarre pockets / mixes of urban and rural like that.

Even if it's an indoor grow rack or a small windowsill planter, everyone should be learning how to grow food. Hope you and yours get the sort of homestead you described

Where you at in MI? I'm in Ottawa county. PM me if you don't want to share with all. MI cities/towns are definitely odd mixes of urban/rural; the auto industry locating 5000 worker plants in tiny towns and small cities did that.

 

[HariSeldon]

@Musky_Cheese can we please update his tag to "Check for penis"

To be fair it couldn't be any worse than the current tag.