[lock2k]

You're not Pokémon's target demographic

This is:

But he was back then, and he wasn't retarded and could figure out everything. Why do we have to treat today's kids as retarded little shits? They're capable as well.

Even games for older demographics are full of this tard tutorial shit.

 

[Snes nes]

You're not Pokémon's target demographic

This is:

 

[Nobody]

You're not Pokémon's target demographic

This is:

Not in reality tho, plenty of people buying Pokemon aren't kids and it relies heavily on nostalgia and people that grew up with the series (despite the fact that the series itself ironically always refused to evolve).

That's why I only really value the first generation of Pokemon that was truly great for it's time, all the truly interesting ideas from the series come from the first iteration and they are all mostly related to how it made use of the Game boy.

 

[Soodanim]

Yeah it's why, rage arts aside, I'm not really sure what you meant by T7 being dumbed down. Move lists are still huge and the gameplay is just as intricate as ever.

Game is insanely balanced and varied thanks to consistent patches and season passes over the years.

I mean look how many damn characters there are:



It's an absolute beast of a game you could spend years with and still have much to learn

I think you're missing the most important point about Tekken, so allow me to clear things up:

Game	Has Tekken Force Mode
Tekken 1
Tekken 2
Tekken 3	✔
Tekken Tag Tournament
Tekken 4
Tekken 5
Tekken 6
Tekken Tag Tournament 2
Tekken 7

 

[DonDonDonPata]

The PC market, the mobile market, the console market, the handheld market, and the (mostly gone) arcade market are all different gaming markets. This is obvious because each platform has games that thrive while others never take off, due to control scheme, hardware power, customer base, etc.

So if you grew up enjoying a certain "market" -- in my case, PC, arcade, and handheld for the most part -- then you also grew up enjoying a certain market of available games. This principle is even true within markets (SEGA console vs Nintendo console) and it's even more so when you compare different gaming markets.

The old era of gaming in the 80s and 90s were Arcade. All of the pick-up-and-play-but-very-challenging gaming mentality was crafted then, and we're still feasting on what they built. The market was the same as the old carnivals and boardwalk arcades: attract your customer to a venue and let them try your Game Challenge for a cheap price. Whether the player wins or loses the arcade cabinet never "lost" money like a casino slot machine or something so it was a good investment, which is why we saw cabinets at bars, laundromats, movie theaters, grocery stores, and eventually spawning the "arcade food joint" which overtook roller rinks and bowling alleys.

The arcade market produced a certain kind of game for a certain customer that existed at that time (and still exists, if mobile is any indication). Your skill could allow you to beat an entire game for 0.25. That was the bargain, your skill allowed you to play more of the game for a longer period of time. If skill failed, you could spend some extra money to keep trying.

PC and consoles kinda "ruined" things by letting us buy games and by adding more story and saves (heh). The customer was now owed the chance to beat the game that they bought, or to credit-feed the arcade game. No matter how finely-crafted that 45-minute arcade game was, that was TOO SHORT compared to the 10-hour cinematic masterpieces and 20-hour adventure games. What a ripoff for only 45 minutes of game!!

This change in customer expectations changed the product and attracted a different kind of customer. You could pause on the NES! You could practice the arcade game without spending quarters! From then on, gamers have complained about difficulty standing between themselves and The End. Game guides demolished the idea of secrets and turned it into a quasi-DLC by heavily encouraging players to use supplementary guides/magazines to get through the game. Difficulty was a stench to this market of customers who felt like they BOUGHT The game so they should BEAT the game.

Therefore, "beating" a game became almost completely meaningless, until we saw a revival with modern games like Demons' Souls. Suddenly, beating the game became special again (assuming it was Very Difficult and you had to Git Gud to beat it). Where you fall on this spectrum of "I want to defeat a challenge" versus "I deserve to 100% this game because I purchased it" will probably determine how cynical you are about modern gaming.

 

[Ascend]

That's why indie games are where it's at. The most "recent" games I played that I consider memorable, are all indie games...

Doki Doki literature club
Missed messages
Her story

Those are a few examples... I don't even have an interest to try AAA games. For example I look at NFS and I'm. Like, I should try it, and then I say, meh. I'll never finish it anyway, so I won't spend the money when it's released.
I just recently bought NFS Heat, since I heard it was good. I bought it for $3.50 on Steam, while it was $70 on release. That price alone tells you everything you need to know about the quality. If it was good, the price wouldn't be so mediocre after a mere 2 years. But I won't die for $3.50.

And even then I didn't even boot it up yet, because I expect the same disappointment of prior NFS games. I have no issues booting up NFS underground again though. Because I know it's simple. Boot up, a few tweaks to the car, and we race. No story that overstays its welcome nor overly complex mechanics just to get you to keep playing.

Maybe I'm also overly cynical, but that's simply how I experience the modern games. I'm more willing to try something old that I never played, than even trying something that I hear is good today.

 

[Nobody]

That's why indie games are where it's at. The most "recent" games I played that I consider memorable, are all indie games...

Doki Doki literature club
Missed messages
Her story

Those are a few examples... I don't even have an interest to try AAA games. For example I look at NFS and I'm. Like, I should try it, and then I say, meh. I'll never finish it anyway, so I won't spend the money when it's released.
I just recently bought NFS Heat, since I heard it was good. I bought it for $3.50 on Steam, while it was $70 on release. That price alone tells you everything you need to know about the quality. If it was good, the price wouldn't be so mediocre after a mere 2 years. But I won't die for $3.50.

And even then I didn't even boot it up yet, because I expect the same disappointment of prior NFS games. I have no issues booting up NFS underground again though. Because I know it's simple. Boot up, a few tweaks to the car, and we race. No story that overstays its welcome nor overly complex mechanics just to get you to keep playing.

Maybe I'm also overly cynical, but that's simply how I experience the modern games. I'm more willing to try something old that I never played, than even trying something that I hear is good today.

Ratio of good to bad indies is just as bad as AAA games if not worse, so many of the acclaimed indie games are extremely overrated as well. Ain't nobody has time to be mining through indie trash to find out what is really worth playing.

Doki Doki literature club, let me see...

 

[DonDonDonPata]

Ratio of good to bad indies is just as bad as AAA games if not worse, so many of the acclaimed indie games are extremely overrated as well. Ain't nobody has time to be mining through indie trash to find out what is really worth playing.

Doki Doki literature club, let me see...

but if you only played the game, you would realize that it was sUbVeRtInG eXpEcTaTiOnS

That's definitely something I am cynical toward, this modern obsession of "subverting expecations" and trying to "surprise" the gamer. Even Nintendo does this and it's annoying. Flipping the story or the gameplay on its head just to say you did it is pointless. Undertale felt the same way.

 

[teezzy]

@Snes nes @nominedomine

I don't see this necessarily as being GameFreak or Nintendo's problem though. People enjoy the franchise snd keep returning for more. There's other similar titles to play if you've grown out of Pokemon. SMT being an obvious choice

Idk

 

[Nobody]

@Snes nes @nominedomine

I don't see this necessarily as being GameFreak or Nintendo's problem though. People enjoy the franchise snd keep returning for more. There's other similar titles to play if you've grown out of Pokemon. SMT being an obvious choice

Idk

If they can get by with minimum effort good for them I guess. Nothing is more boring, braindead and uninspiring than a new Pokemon game.

 

[Ascend]

Ratio of good to bad indies is just as bad as AAA games if not worse, so many of the acclaimed indie games are extremely overrated as well. Ain't nobody has time to be mining through indie trash to find out what is really worth playing.

Doki Doki literature club, let me see...

Go play it.

Like they say; don't judge a book by its cover. It's one of the most surprising gaming experiences, because it dares to do something different. And it's free. It actually makes you want to buy the expansion pack just to support the developers.

Missed messages, same thing.

 

[Nobody]

Go play it.

Like they say; don't judge a book by its cover. It's one of the most surprising gaming experiences, because it dares to do something different.

Missed messages, same thing.

I'm judging the book by the cover on this one. I'll never play a game that looks like that and it's pretty obvious to anyone why that should be the case.

Persona is as far as I'll go and even then it's starting to get embarrassing as well. I lost most of my interest in anime given how much they include weird shit even on mainstream series while the weeb audience suspiciously doesn't seem to mind it.

 

[Ascend]

Just to make a point...

Doki Doki literature club steam reviews:
REVIEWS
Overwhelmingly Positive (96% of 181,568) ALL TIME
Overwhelmingly Positive (95% of 1,276) RECENT

NFS Heat steam reviews:
REVIEWS
Very Positive (83% of 52,039) ALL TIME
Mostly Positive (79% of 15,599) RECENT

Life is Strange: True Colors reviews:
REVIEWS
Very Positive (89% of 8,260) ALL TIME
Very Positive (82% of 82) RECENT

 

[Nobody]

Just to make a point...

Doki Doki literature club steam reviews:
REVIEWS
Overwhelmingly Positive (96% of 181,568) ALL TIME
Overwhelmingly Positive (95% of 1,276) RECENT

NFS Heat steam reviews:
REVIEWS
Very Positive (83% of 52,039) ALL TIME
Mostly Positive (79% of 15,599) RECENT

Life is Strange: True Colors reviews:
REVIEWS
Very Positive (89% of 8,260) ALL TIME
Very Positive (82% of 82) RECENT

Like I give a shit about Steam reviews.

NFS Heat, Life is Strange True Colors, what is that suppose to tell us?

 

[Allnamestakenlol]

Nah. The industry has gone to shit in so many ways.

 

[Ascend]

Like I give a shit about Steam reviews.

NFS Heat, Life is Strange True Colors, what is that suppose to tell us?

That some indie games are better received than average (or dare I say the majority of) AAA games. It has more reviews and a higher score.

What are you trying to tell us?

 

[Nobody]

That some indie games are better received than average (or dare I say the majority of) AAA games. It has more reviews and a higher score.

What are you trying to tell us?

What I'm telling you is that this Doki Doki whatever is weeb trash. Who is the target audience for this garbage?

 

[Ascend]

What I'm telling you is that this Doki Doki whatever is weeb trash. Who is the target audience for this garbage?

Anyone that has the capability of behaving more mature than a 5 year old troll.

 

[Joe T.]

Ratio of good to bad indies is just as bad as AAA games if not worse, so many of the acclaimed indie games are extremely overrated as well. Ain't nobody has time to be mining through indie trash to find out what is really worth playing.

That's become a major problem for someone like me whose expectations rise with each subsequent generation, not just in the indie space either. It was much easier to sift through previews and reviews for available or upcoming games to pick out those that interested you 10+ years ago. There's now such a flood that finding those worthwhile gems has become a full time job.

I mean, look at this:

 

[Nobody]

That's become a major problem for someone like me whose expectations rise with each subsequent generation, not just in the indie space either. It was much easier to sift through previews and reviews for available or upcoming games to pick out those that interested you 10+ years ago. There's now such a flood that finding those worthwhile gems has become a full time job.

I mean, look at this:

My solution is to just play a lot less and go for those GoTY contenders and the games that are obviously good. Maybe you are going to miss a few gems but you'll avoid wasting your time and money with a lot of trash.

Anyone that has the capability of behaving more mature than a 5 year old troll.

You enjoy your game about anime school girls, if not liking that shit makes me a troll so be it.

 

[synchronicity]

Ratio of good to bad indies is just as bad as AAA games if not worse, so many of the acclaimed indie games are extremely overrated as well. Ain't nobody has time to be mining through indie trash to find out what is really worth playing.

While that's true, I don't find it problematic. With so much out there, I feel free to sample whatever draws my interest or even mild curiosity, but if it doesn't land with me, I have no issue putting a game down and moving on. I gave up on the idea that if I buy/own a game, I have any obligation to see it through to the end. No, the onus falls on the game to grab me, and if I've given it a reasonable go and I'm still not feeling it, it's on to the search for the next game that *will* do so. Sometimes there will be games that show promise and intrigue me even if I'm not fully invested, and I'll give those a bit more time and patience to strut their stuff, so to speak, though.

The bottom line for me is that, while there's surely plenty of trash out there, you'll never find the treasures if you're not willing to get dirty and do a bit of digging. That's a price that I'm willing to pay because when I find that rare gem, it feels so rewarding, and I add an experience to my collection of experiences within this medium that I'll always value and that I know I can return to in the future for good times.

 

[Nobody]

While that's true, I don't find it problematic. With so much out there, I feel free to sample whatever draws my interest or even mild curiosity, but if it doesn't land with me, I have no issue putting a game down and moving on. I gave up on the idea that if I buy/own a game, I have any obligation to see it through to the end. No, the onus falls on the game to grab me, and if I've given it a reasonable go and I'm still not feeling it, it's on to the search for the next game that *will* do so. Sometimes there will be games that show promise and intrigue me even if I'm not fully invested, and I'll give those a bit more time and patience to strut their stuff, so to speak, though.

The bottom line for me is that, while there's surely plenty of trash out there, you'll never find the treasures if you're not willing to get dirty and do a bit of digging. That's a price that I'm willing to pay because when I find that rare gem, it feels so rewarding, and I add an experience to my collection of experiences within this medium that I'll always value and that I know I can return to in the future for good times.

I don't have time anymore to even play the games I "know" are going to be good, I don't need to hunt for any treasure. If something truly great comes out of the indie space I'm sure people will make a big fuss about it.

Make a list of top 10 or top 20 games of all time and I doubt it will be filled with indies.

 

[Snes nes]

What I'm telling you is that this Doki Doki whatever is weeb trash. Who is the target audience for this garbage?

I mean I watch anime too but I wouldn't play most of the stereotypical stuff. Anime is at its best when it's not being anime and being something unique like evangelion or rurouni kenshin or bleach. The Hardcore fans of anime seem to be some of the dumbest people out there

 

[Nobody]

I mean I watch anime too but I wouldn't play most of the stereotypical stuff. Anime is at its best when it's not being anime and being something unique like evangelion or rurouni kenshin or bleach. The Hardcore fans of anime seem to be some of the dumbest people out there

Rurouni Kenshin, I see you are a man of culture as well.

I know there are some great animes and anime type games, but the embarrassing stuff is out of control.

 

[synchronicity]

I don't have time anymore to play the games I know are good, I don't need to hunt for any treasure. If something truly great comes out of the indie space I'm sure people will make a big fuss about it.

My issue with that is the fact that the popularity of a game isn't necessarily a reflection of whether *I* will like a game. My tastes are my own, and many times the "hits" aren't with me, and the obscure titles often *are*. If I confined myself to games that are generally well-loved and/or well-known, I'd have missed out on many amazing games.

 

[Soodanim]

but if you only played the game, you would realize that it was sUbVeRtInG eXpEcTaTiOnS

That's definitely something I am cynical toward, this modern obsession of "subverting expecations" and trying to "surprise" the gamer. Even Nintendo does this and it's annoying. Flipping the story or the gameplay on its head just to say you did it is pointless. Undertale felt the same way.

Assuming the worst about motives of something you don't like is probably the truest, by the book cynicism this thread is going to see. You grumpy old sod!

 

[Nobody]

My issue with that is the fact that the popularity of a game isn't necessarily a reflection of whether *I* will like a game. My tastes are my own, and many times the "hits" aren't with me, and the obscure titles often *are*. If I confined myself to games that are generally well-loved and/or well-known, I'd have missed out on many amazing games.

I hate a bunch of popular games like Resident Evil 4, Skyrim, Fallout 3, Halo, that most people don't dare criticize, I don't base my opinion on popularity.

I even dislike the vast majority of indies I played and that by itself is already a pretty unpopular take I guess.

With YouTube it's pretty easy to watch a trailer or a bit of gameplay and get a good idea if it's something you are going to like or not.

 

[synchronicity]

With youtube it's pretty easy to watch a trailer or a bit of gameplay and get a good idea if it's something you are going to like or not.

Yeah, I get that. It makes it easier to see if you might enjoy a particular game, for sure. But with so many cheap deals and bundles (talking primarily in the PC space), I have no issue rolling the dice. Sometimes, I end up really surprised - on both ends of the spectrum, positive or negative.

But I'll definitely investigate deeper if I'm paying more. But even then, I'm often wrong in my prediction about how I ultimately ended up feeling. I guess I just prefer to keep an open mind and a "you never know until you try" sort of attitude.

 

[Snes nes]

Rurouni Kenshin, I see you are a man of culture as well.

I know there are some great animes and anime type games, but the embarrassing stuff is out of control.

I don't get how it got to that point in the first place the majority of that stuff isn't anything good. Usually when a anime has one too many cliche plot points in it its becomes extremely unwatchable like fairy tale was and it was the creator himself who made the anime into trash and ruined what would have been a decent product otherwise.

 

[Nobody]

Yeah, I get that. It makes it easier to see if you might enjoy a particular game, for sure. But with so many cheap deals and bundles (talking primarily in the PC space), I have no issue rolling the dice. Sometimes, I end up really surprised - on both ends of the spectrum, positive or negative.

But I'll definitely investigate deeper if I'm paying more. But even then, I'm often wrong in my prediction about how I ultimately ended up feeling. I guess I just prefer to keep an open mind and a "you never know until you try" sort of attitude.

It doesn't matter how cheap the games are, that is almost irrelevant to be honest. I don't mind at all to pay to play a great game day one like Elden Ring, TLoU or God of War, I wish there were more game like that where I'm confident getting day 1.

To me it's absurd that reviewers factor price when giving game scores or that people think "well, it's not that bad because I got it on Gamepass"...

 

[Soodanim]

With YouTube it's pretty easy to watch [...] a bit of gameplay and get a good idea if it's something you are going to like or not.

This is pretty much all I do now. I might watch the odd review from someone like ACG if I want a deeper dive into a game I'm not sure about, but by and large I find that reviews go the long way round to an opinion I can easily not share. All I really need to know is if the gameplay is something I'll enjoy, but reviews have spent way too long ignoring that in favour of "Look how compelling this story is" for them to be my go to.

If I see a cinematic trailer for a game, it might look okay but it's largely useless to me as a potential customer. I'm buying a game, show me the game part of it. The only real exception is when it's for a remake like Silent Hill 2 or Resident Evil 4, because with a remake/reimagining/reboot everything matters so I'm more interested.

 

[bork]

What I'm telling you is that this Doki Doki whatever is weeb trash. Who is the target audience for this garbage?

Another one projecting bootleg manliness? Sniff sniff....I smell an incel

 

[Nobody]

Another one projecting bootleg manliness? Sniff sniff....I smell an incel

So not liking suspiciously weeb looking games is weird? It's not the other way around?

This is pretty much all I do now. I might watch the odd review from someone like ACG if I want a deeper dive into a game I'm not sure about, but by and large I find that reviews go the long way round to an opinion I can easily not share. All I really need to know is if the gameplay is something I'll enjoy, but reviews have spent way too long ignoring that in favour of "Look how compelling this story is" for them to be my go to.

If I see a cinematic trailer for a game, it might look okay but it's largely useless to me as a potential customer. I'm buying a game, show me the game part of it. The only real exception is when it's for a remake like Silent Hill 2 or Resident Evil 4, because with a remake/reimagining/reboot everything matters so I'm more interested.

RE4 and SH2 remakes are a good example of a game that is hard to tell if I'm going to like or not based on the trailer.

I don't like the original RE4 game at all but the team behind this remake made the RE2 remake that was great and for SH2 is the other way around, I have no trust in the team making the remake.

But for the vast majority of games I can tell with a very high degree of precision if I'm going to like it or not by watching a few minutes of gameplay.

 

[WesternBlood]

Ratio of good to bad indies is just as bad as AAA games if not worse, so many of the acclaimed indie games are extremely overrated as well. Ain't nobody has time to be mining through indie trash to find out what is really worth playing.

Doki Doki literature club, let me see...

 

[bork]

So not liking suspiciously weeb looking games is weird? It's not the other way around?

Overwhelmingly positive user reviews. It's probably a good game. I just feel like dudes that use "weeb trash" 24/7 low key beat off to hentai.

 

[Nobody]

I never watched Evangelion so I have no idea what this is about.

Overwhelmingly positive user reviews. It's probably a good game. I just feel like dudes that use "weeb trash" 24/7 low key beat off to hentai.

I think it's the other way around if anything.

Using user score to assert the quality of some niche game is very unconvincing. Weird how everybody got so defensive, I'm also never going to play the new Monkey Island or Scorn based on how they look alone and hardly anyone took offense over that.

 

[WesternBlood]

I never watched Evangelion so I have no idea what this is about.

It's a non-sequitur because we are talking about Western vs Japanese games so the juxtaposition of Carl from Aqua Teen Hunger Force representing his incredulous understanding of the nuanced behavior of these two Anime characters being tsundere about whatever the fuck Japanese anime characters get tsundere about has Carl befuddeled as it relates to the cynicism which has beleaguered our digital toy hobby.

 

[Ascend]

I mean I watch anime too but I wouldn't play most of the stereotypical stuff.

Neither would I.

 

[Optimus]

Yes, he is overly cynical and so is the large majority of this forum. Many old games aren't as good as people remember them being. People are older and looking through rose colored glasses.

Take NHL 94, often argued as a sports game classic. "The best in the series" people say. Super beloved title.



Now look at the latest release. NHL 23. Came out this week to many 7/10 reviews citing a lack of innovation between previous titles, microtransactions, etc




But notice how much cleaner the presentation is, how much faster the gameplay is, how smooth the controls are

It's just so much better in every way. The problem is that the things which used to absolutely wow us no longer do. The medium has advanced entirely

A lot of people grew out of games and are too mentally underdeveloped to admit it to themselves

I have to drag you all the way back to this post. One, I will concede that modern sports titles do an incredible job with presentation and creating a true live experience of being at the sporting event. I've been playing MLB The Show and the game has just come a long way with attention to detail in almost every respect whether it's stadium details, like home and visitor bullpens or even the clothing detail of the fans in the stands, or player details like players in the dugouts or the catcher eating a tipped foul to the mask and reacting to it. The game is just incredible for the sense of details. There's an enormity to it all.

The enormity is also part of the problem because there is also novelty to simplicity. There is a simplicity that you find in older sports title such as NHL '94 where playing the game is relatively simple and you just take in the complexity of the things going on around you. NHL '94 had fights and different things that were attempts at capturing the real sport. Today's games have nailed that down perfectly, and in doing so, because they are in fact sports simulations, will often times become too complex to be enjoyed fully. Even after playing MLB The Show for multiple years in a row, I still don't actually enjoy batting. I want to enjoy batting, but the actual act of watching pitches and being able to tell ball from strike is incredibly challenging. Jumping over to Madden, the past 10 years of that game have seen it become less fun as they've stacked on the realism and more button combinations even to the simple act of just running with the football (you can juke, spin, stop-and-go, stiff arm, plow, lower the shoulder, jump, hop, skip, flip, duck, dip, dodge), and furthermore the timing of the actions has become incredibly integral to the result meaning you have a fraction of a second to get it right. It's just not fun anymore when you have to do so many things just to make your guy spin successfully to shed a tackler and gain an extra two yards.

What would be better is nailing the presentation and allowing players to experience the skill of the player they are controlling rather than putting all the responsibility on the player. I can only imagine that Madden '24 will have players tapping buttons to simulate the footsteps of the player running and if you're slow at that then your 95 speed player is gonna be at a jog. Fuck that.

 

[Nobody]

It's a non-sequitur because we are talking about Western vs Japanese games so the juxtaposition of Carl from Aqua Teen Hunger Force representing his incredulous understanding of the nuanced behavior of these two Anime characters being tsundere about whatever the fuck Japanese anime characters get tsundere about has Carl befuddeled as it relates to the cynicism which has beleaguered our digital toy hobby.

I watched plenty of anime and played plenty of Japanese games there ain't going to gaslight me into pretending it isn't filled with weird shit.

There is nothing wrong with writing this game off base on how it looks alone.