- Platforms
I think it's just a deep irritation that people who buy Nintendo games don't give a shit about what they give a shit about.
Thread: Switch 2 announced! (NatetheHate: Nintendo Switch 2 will be announced on Thursday, January 16)
Hype Thread
I think it's just a deep irritation that people who buy Nintendo games don't give a shit about what they give a shit about.
Hardensoul
Member
- Platforms
Yea, I don't give a shit. I don't care about realistic graphics. I like fantasy, sci-fi and like to forget about reality when I play games. Powerful console isn't that huge for me!
Blizzard games were like Nintendo games in away. That's why it's been PC/Nintendo for me.
I used to get annoyed at Nintendo being 1-2 generations behind. Now, I don't give a single shit. As much as I'd love to see something like a high budget 3D Mario game built on PS5 level hardware, I've just come to accept things as they are. Nintendo is still offering something you can't get elsewhere and that's what matters.
CAPTAIN RAINCOAT
Member
- Platforms
the newer mario games run pretty well on the current switch and still look visually stunning ...the opening to Tears of the kingdom is also incredibly impressive given the age of the hardware
nintendo know their niche and hopefully we get quite a few years of life third party wise before they start not releasing the mainstream games on it
And that's exactly why I'm excited by this Switch 2. If Nintendo can make TOTK on this crappy ass Switch hardware, they will be doing some awesome stuff with this newer hardware even if it is way behind the other tech we're buying.
It took me awhile but I'm starting to dig the blue and red colors more now.
Stifler's Mom
I've got some Scotch
- Platforms
With late PS4 gen, graphics have entered a state where they are just good enough for me if they have a stable frame rate...
Diminishing returns is a real thing.
That said, I wonder if I will just feel the same thing about this that I felt about the first Switch. With having a Wii U, I simply didn't need one.
3rd party games I can get for much cheaper on my Xbox, and most Switch big hitters I already had for my Wii and Wii U.
Would be funny, if it's still nonsensical to me to buy a new Nintendo console cause I have that crappy old Wii U.
Diminishing returns is a real thing.
That said, I wonder if I will just feel the same thing about this that I felt about the first Switch. With having a Wii U, I simply didn't need one.
3rd party games I can get for much cheaper on my Xbox, and most Switch big hitters I already had for my Wii and Wii U.
Would be funny, if it's still nonsensical to me to buy a new Nintendo console cause I have that crappy old Wii U.
Zog
Member
Yeah ok, I do remember that now. Still pisses me off to see consumers defending corporations. When people say shit like: 'they are in business to make as money as possible', it's just excusing the anti-consumer BS. Consumers should be worried about getting a good deal, not worried about the bottom line of billion dollar companies. Especially as the wealth gap continues to widen. It's not like the employees are getting much out of this corporate greed.
Optimus
Member
- Platforms
So, my wife and I have begun to save for Switch 2. I've told her we will need to save about $500. I think that will cover Switch 2 and a game.
It's a bit more than I'd like, but we're going to have at least one Switch 2 and Mario Kart. I'm a little concerned, if this about perfectly covers it, that it's a bit rich for what Nintendo offers seeing as how OG Switch launched at $299.99, iirc. I have been thinking $399.99, but now think it could be a bit more expensive.
It's a bit more than I'd like, but we're going to have at least one Switch 2 and Mario Kart. I'm a little concerned, if this about perfectly covers it, that it's a bit rich for what Nintendo offers seeing as how OG Switch launched at $299.99, iirc. I have been thinking $399.99, but now think it could be a bit more expensive.
- Platforms
Sean Mirrsen
Member
- Platforms
But it's... not anti-consumer to not lower prices. Nobody is entitled to benefits from someone else's success. I dont need to give away a portion of my lottery winnings to people on the street, Steam doesn't need to lower its cut just because it grew so big, and Nintendo doesn't need to offer any discounts just because their console stays attractive to consumers seven years on. It's common sense that applies to everything, not just corporations.
Optimus
Member
- Platforms
I'm hearing there are potentially multiple SKU's with one of those being a bundle for $499.99.
cryptoadam
Needs a Spellchecker
- Platforms
Saruhashi
Member
Are any of the big three console manufacturers pro-consumer?
I'm thinking if I buy a PS5 at launch then I pay full price. If I buy any game at launch then I pay full price.
How is a discount 12 months after I already own the product a good deal for me?
There's a difference between explaining why something is the way that it is and "defending" corporations.
You really think that these companies offer discounts as some benevolent pro-consumer act? Or is it just another strategy to get more money?
It's always framed on here as "defending" Sony or Nintendo or whenever someone explains why they do the shit they do.
They all want your money and they all want as much as they can get. They just have different approaches.
How many gamers have hundreds or thousands of dollars worth of backlogs of unplayed games because they saw some good discounts?
- Platforms
So is the Switch 2 being about on par with Xbox Series S performance about on par with the PS4 Pro performance rumors? Or less?
Still expecting big leaps for Mario, Metroid, Zelda, Xenoblade and Fire Emblem in visuals.
Fingers crossed for Dragon Quest XII, Persona 6, Vanilawares next fantasy game, Astral Chain 2, Octopath Traveler III and Star Ocean 7 aiming to be a big comeback for the series (trending from Divine Force being decent enough, and Second Story R being amazing).
Ditto
Chrono Trigger HD-2D Remake
Castlevania Symphony of the Night Remake
Dragon Quest IV-V-VI HD-2D Remakes
Dragon Quest VII Remaster
Dragon Quest VIII Remake
Fire Emblem Awakening Remake
Final Fantasy I-VI HD Remakes
Final Fantasy IX Remake
Final Fantasy Tactics Remake
Bravely Default/Endlayer Remasters
Kid Icarus Uprising Remaster
Pandoras Tower Remaster and a fix for a infamous game killing bug towards the end
Last Story Remaster
Monster Hunter 4R
Radiant Historia Remaster
Tales of the Abyss R
SMT Strange Journey
SMT IV/IV A Remaster
Digital Devil Survivor 1/2 R
Zelda Wind Waker HD
Zelda Twilight Princess HD
Wildcards
Ace Combat 8
Armored Core 7
Final Fantasy VII Remake/Rebirth
Lost Odyssey Remastered for all platforms
Persona 6
X-Com 3
Still expecting big leaps for Mario, Metroid, Zelda, Xenoblade and Fire Emblem in visuals.
Fingers crossed for Dragon Quest XII, Persona 6, Vanilawares next fantasy game, Astral Chain 2, Octopath Traveler III and Star Ocean 7 aiming to be a big comeback for the series (trending from Divine Force being decent enough, and Second Story R being amazing).
Ditto
Chrono Trigger HD-2D Remake
Castlevania Symphony of the Night Remake
Dragon Quest IV-V-VI HD-2D Remakes
Dragon Quest VII Remaster
Dragon Quest VIII Remake
Fire Emblem Awakening Remake
Final Fantasy I-VI HD Remakes
Final Fantasy IX Remake
Final Fantasy Tactics Remake
Bravely Default/Endlayer Remasters
Kid Icarus Uprising Remaster
Pandoras Tower Remaster and a fix for a infamous game killing bug towards the end
Last Story Remaster
Monster Hunter 4R
Radiant Historia Remaster
Tales of the Abyss R
SMT Strange Journey
SMT IV/IV A Remaster
Digital Devil Survivor 1/2 R
Zelda Wind Waker HD
Zelda Twilight Princess HD
Wildcards
Ace Combat 8
Armored Core 7
Final Fantasy VII Remake/Rebirth
Lost Odyssey Remastered for all platforms
Persona 6
X-Com 3
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Optimus
Member
- Platforms
Never interpret a business move as an act of benevolence unless they're doing it in response to a disaster (ie. Chik-fil-a delivering sandwiches to stranded motorists in an ice storm, free game vouchers during pandemic, etc) and even then it's a form of self-promotion. If Nintendo is doing a Nintendo SELECTS line, it's probably because of sagging hardware sales. If they are discounting anything, it's out of necessity. Why do video games generally get discounted? To squeeze more sales. Some companies will resort to it faster out of a necessity for more cash flow. Why doesn't Nintendo do it? Because they place a greater priority on higher returns in the long run as opposed to a more immediate infusion of cash.
It's pretty simple. The reason why Steam (and PC) usually has a ton of stuff on sale all the time is it's overflowing with games and gaining attention is pretty hard. Stuff goes on sale out of an over-abundance of competition. Nintendo, on the other hand, does not compete with hardly anyone even when there's 11,000,000 games on their hardware. It's the way it is.
Optimus
Member
- Platforms
It's less. Expect it to be roughly on par with PS4 but punching above that thanks to newer tools and improved cores.
When you think about it, Nintendo Switch plays a lot of current titles. There are obviously modern titles it can't play, but it plays a lot for being a fraction of 1 TFLOP in raw performance. I believe docked it's .7 TFLOPS and handheld it's .3 TFLOPS. Switch 2 is likely to be ~1.5 TFLOPS handheld and just under 4 TFLOPS docked.
Saruhashi
Member
Looking at the existing games I would expect to see pretty big performance and graphical jumps in Zelda. BOTW and TOTK have issues with frame rate and pop-in and general textures.
MK9 or 3D Mario I would question where they can really go graphically and what maybe a more powerful machine could offer from a gameplay perspective instead.
Metroid should be their real "pushing the hardware to the limit" showcase but I don't know.
Pokemon will probably still run terribly but will sell millions. LOL.
Nicktendo
Switch Master
I think the Series S claims some are making are absolutely wild, and I seriously doubt it's going to come anywhere close to that.
Series S has its own problems, but it is still a fairly powerful machine. I have one and it's pretty gay tbh, but that's because most devs (especially Microsoft) seem to focus on adding current-gen graphical features at the expense of resolution, so most stuff looks blurry af on it, and a lot of games suffer from horrendous pop-in. Being more selective and sensible would have most stuff running nicely at 1080p or 1440p. We're talking 3.5 TFLOPS though, which a docked Switch 2 is not even going to come close to, let's be serious.
It'll be close enough to base PS4, but the modern architecture and features will also complement that somewhat.
So, I expect all first party Nintendo games will look just lovely, and Nintendo will be sensible when it comes to mixing muh graphical showcase with framerate and art style - likely favouring the latter two heavily while still, unfortunately, not implementing good AA, unless DLSS can somehow save the day a little.
It will be up largely be up to 3rd party devs how they approach the machine, but I think those that opt for graphical showcases are going to be another in a long list of cases of french frying before they pizza. They're going to have a bad time. So yeah, they might get Cyberpunk running, for example, but expect dips to 360p / 480p in handheld if they decide to push graphics over practicality.
Overall, it should be a good step up from the 2017 Switch, and Nintendo games are going to look and run like liquid gold (except Pokemon).
Chozofication
Member
- Platforms
Well it's a better machine than both of those overall, from what I can tell so far. Worse cpu than series S probably.
It's Ampere vs 2012's Gcn architecture in ps4 pro. Ps4 pro only had 6gb ram available for games, switch 2 will have more than 10gb for games. 11gb+ hopefully.
Series S has I think 8gb or less available for games and that is the thing devs hate about it. Games simply don't fit in memory without neutering everything.
You can get into the weeds of TF comparisons but due to Ram and modern Nvidia architecture, switch 2 is superior.
Chozofication
Member
- Platforms
Damn Nintendo making switch a handheld ps3 and the switch 2 a handheld ps4. If only someone told devs ps3 had 4gb of ram!
Epic Nemesis
Needs No Introduction
I stopped getting into the performance weeds in PS3/360 era. It's usually a bunch of people who have no idea what they are talking about regurgitating stuff they heard from people who kind of know what they are talking about.
I will find out how powerful the console is when I see games running on the hardware. I am thinking/hoping reality will be somewhere between a ps4 pro and a series s with some AI fuckery getting it close but still below base PS5 performance.
I will find out how powerful the console is when I see games running on the hardware. I am thinking/hoping reality will be somewhere between a ps4 pro and a series s with some AI fuckery getting it close but still below base PS5 performance.
Chozofication
Member
- Platforms
Interesting video on mario kart 9. My only concern is image quality, though my suspicion is that the footage is either handheld mode where they're just doing 1080p no AA, and docked will be higher res but still no AA because Nintendo hates AA sometimes lol.
I hope Nintendo utilizes full native resolution plus DLAA on some games at least.
Nicktendo
Switch Master
- Platforms
Truth. I mean, last I checked, wasn't Sony recently the first company to actually increase their console prices?
Optimus
Member
- Platforms
As far as I have seen, Nintendo never utilizes AA. They didn't on GameCube. They didn't on Wii or Wii U. They prefer resolution to do its job.
AA is a crutch. It softens edges a bit but also makes things a bit soft and blurry. You really shouldn't even need it at higher resolutions.
Chozofication
Member
- Platforms
Well it depends on the AA. Example SMAA 1x without temporal components is quite sharp, better edge treatment than msaa of old.
Some Nintendo games use AA, like mario 3d world. Pikmin 3 had AA. Tropical freeze had AA but it was too soft, probably fxaa.
I agree with Nintendo in not using AA to preserve the art if the alternative is TAA, heavy post process AA etc.
But they need to utilize DLAA/dlss where it makes sense performance wise and depending on whether or not there's ghosting etc.
Luigi's mansion 3 devs are not Nintendo themselves but still that game is 1080p plus a quality TAA and with excellent lighting. I would expect exemplary image quality from their next game
Epic Nemesis
Needs No Introduction
What are people's thoughts on current Nintendo shop game vouchers working on switch 2 games? I'm currently sitting on one I don't have a must get game to use it on. I have a bunch of "eh, maybe I'll get it" games I'd pick from if it doesn't carry over but it would be pretty awesome to get Mario kart 9 with it for example.
Optimus
Member
- Platforms
Just finished watching his video. Leave it an actual game developer to sing the praises of the new hardware, especially from a video that almost no one thought looked good. We will obviously have to see what a final build looks like, assuming that was not it. Of course, that could be it. Some environments just don't look very good, and deserts have never been a favorite of mine. They are barren and ugly to look at...
He raises some good points about the environment textures, detailed shadows, and light reflections on the textures. There's really no telling for how long they have been working on MK9. It may have begun as a title aimed for Nintendo Switch, and then they realized people were buying MK8D at such an amazing clip that it didn't really make sense to sell us a new Mario Kart, and then we got the gift that has continued to give for years in the booster track packs.
New theory: When Nintendo decided to bump Mario Kart 9 to Switch 2, they came up with the booster track packs for MK8D.
I think it's probably likely that Nintendo keeps the same eshop system going, so the game vouchers should still work. However, if there is an overhaul of the eshop system and you can't carry over game vouchers, you should still be able to buy games for a year or two on the OG switch eshop.
Zog
Member
Nope and why should they be when consumers are just fine with them being anti-consumer? My problem is when CONSUMERS aren't pro consumer.
Ah but you see, if you knew the price would go down in 12 months, you might wait. However, consumers have now been conditioned that the prices will NEVER come down. With Nintendo it's both hardware and games that never drop in price. With the other two, the hardware never drops in price. You see, they now give you more storage instead of a price drop and that's been going on since the 360/PS3 generation. Consumers seem fine with it so it continues. Could they offer the launch system (with less storage) for cheaper? Yes but why should they when consumers seem ok with it. You see what is happening here? Corporation tests the waters, consumers either defend them or just don't seem to care but there is no one saying 'Wait a damn minute, hardware used to decrease in price over the course of a generation'.
Nope, these companies are not pro-consumer but the real problem is that consumers are also not pro-consumer. Corporations are gonna take as much as they are allowed to. When consumers exert their power, things change, take NFC's for example.
I would call it justifying the shit they do. Stop fuckin' doing it. You don't have to be their mouthpiece, so why are you?
Stouffers
FAFO
Saruhashi
Member
Let's imagine we live in your ideal world where consumers themselves are pro-consumer.
Sony announces PS6 for $599. To deafening silence. No hype. Not one single customer is on board with that. No consoles sold. No games sold.
In that scenario how low do you think the customers could force Sony to go? 500? 100? What would be the impact on the hobby and the industry at large if people aren't willing to pay more than say 200 bucks for a console and not more than 20 bucks for a game? What's the end result?
When you get down to it people will pay what they are willing to pay. If you can sell a few million games at 80 bucks a pop then there's a few million people out there who think that's good value. Same goes for consoles.
This idea of trying to frame it as "justifying" or "defending" is just silly because there's never going to be a situation where Sony is launching a $50 console with a range of $10 games. Eventually you'll get people saying "you know I'd pay more for a better quality console and I'd be willing to pay a lot more for games with higher production values.
The idea that people must just be stupid if they keep buying these products is fine if it makes you feel smarter or better in some way but nobody is forced to buy this shit.
Its like you don't understand how business works. Customers might be able to force prices down but only so far.
What do you reckon is a fair price for, say, a new PS5 Pro and a launch day copy of Kingdom Come Deliverance 2?
Nicktendo
Switch Master
Don't be so hard on him, based on his argumentation, I would say he's only just finished reading Naomi Klein's seminal 90s classic - No Logo. I'm sure he's simply bursting with thoughts and feelings and emotions and he just needed to let them all out. Give him time. We're dealing with complex concepts here. Supply. Demand. The market. The dreaded CORPORATION.
You see, the sheeple, they are not pro-consumer. They have no autonomy over any of their purchasing decisions. They just throw money at stuff. Our pal, Zog, however, now this guy knows the score. He knows all the tricks of the trade and how truly evil and anti-consumer all of these companies are. If only the sheeple would wake up, we'd have $100 consoles and $20 games and the world would be all sunshine and rainbows and we wouldn't even need this forum to complain about how terrible and bad everything is. If only. If only...
Zog
Member
Change or go out of business? Bet they'll choose change.
Really? They think it's a good value or they want it so they pay the price whether they think it's a good value or not? I mean, do you think people think that a case of Pepsi is worth $13 when it used to cost half that? No, they buy it because they like it but they will also tell you that they think it's too damn expensive. See, here's the problem with your thinking. You only see black and white. You think 'if it sells, everyone must think it's a good value'. No, they can buy it and still think it's too damn expensive.
Strawman. Not once did I say anything about a $50 console and $10 games. What I said was that they could offer the launch console with a decreased price instead of discontinuing it, increasing storage and keeping the price the same.
..and there is the next strawman. I never said that people are stupid for buying, only stupid for being corporate mouthpieces.
Oh see, this is what I am talking about. YOU ARE A CONSUMER, YOU DON'T NEED TO CONCERN YOURSELF WITH HOW BUSINESS WORKS, YOU NEED TO CONCERN YOURSELF WITH GETTING THE BEST DEAL.
Also, not once did you actually address what I was talking about. You never addressed why YOU feel the need to be the fuckin' mouthpiece for billion dollar corporations. Why can't you just let them defend their own anti-consumer behavior? Why do you think it's YOUR job to educate us about how business works? YOU ARE A CONSUMER, act like one instead of a corporate mouthpiece.
My main point is: If fewer people were telling us that 'anti-consumer behavior is ok because that's how business works' corporations would be less comfortable with their anti-consumer behavior.
Saruhashi
Member
We can still discuss it though right?
People can explain why certain products might never go on sale?
That's OK with you?
It's like you are taking this shit way too personally.
Who fucking cares if Nintendo never put their games on sale? Everyone knows why that is so why get upset about it?
If people are willing to pay $13 for a case of Pepsi then that's up to them. Pepsi will likely try to charge close to what people are willing to pay.
What's with the caps lock? I can concern myself with whatever I like. You act as though someone saying "I can see why they do that" is making any tangible difference.
What do you reckon is a fair price for, say, a new PS5 Pro and a launch day copy of Kingdom Come Deliverance 2?
Phunkydiabetic
Prince of the Land of Stench
They need to overhaul that bitch ass eshop so there isn't a seven second delay with every button press. The lag is atrocious, easily the worst estore of the three.
Zog
Member
See there you go again, ignoring my main point. I'll say it again:
My main point is: If fewer people were telling us that 'anti-consumer behavior is ok because that's how business works' corporations would be less comfortable with their anti-consumer behavior.
It's easy really. If you are about to justify anti-consumer behavior because 'that's how business works', just don't. Instead think about why YOU want to justify this behavior. Is it in your best interest as a consumer? Do you want this behavior to continue?
Let me give you an example, some kid is acting up. You could justify it and say 'well maybe he's just in a bad mood, maybe this...., maybe that...' or you could just not say that because he's listening and you would just encourage more of that behavior. He doesn't even need to defend his actions if you do it for him.
Saruhashi
Member
I disagree with the entire premise of your point.
Nintendo isn't browsing D-Pad seeing that some random guy has thoughts on why they don't do discounts and decides to make business decisions based on that.
The vast majority of people buying their stuff aren't even on gaming forums etc. Not like some mother buying her kid a Switch for his birthday is wavering because of the price but some random guys on a forum said the price is OK so she's gonna buy anyway.
Your entire premise for being mad about this is deeply flawed.
Your example just proves it. What "kid" is this? Mine? A nephew? Somebody else's kid? Am I not entitled to an opinion on why the kid is acting up? Why is that even framed as "defending" his actions?
What is this fucking obsession with framing an explanation for something as "defending" it?
Its cold outside because it's the middle of winter right now. "Ah there you go again, defending the weather!"
Again, Nintendo isn't listening so why get so upset about it?
Just joking, I hope Switch 2 sells 150 million at 450 bucks a go and never ever ever goes on sale.
I think $90 is a fair price for a new Pokemon game even if it's only 25fps and 720p docked and I hope it sells millions.
Oh shit, I've done it now. I suggested an anti-consumer Pokemon game so now lots of people will be more comfortable buying it!
Zog
Member
...and if you were the only one doing it and only on D-Pad...but that's not the case. You and people like you think everyone needs to be re-educated about how business works. We've all heard it, we know how business works. You can stop telling us now.
I don't remember saying that you are influencing parents? Strawman.
You just don't get it do you? Doesn't matter whose kid it is, doesn't even matter what your opinion is. It matters what you say out loud for the kid to hear. It's framed as defending his actions because you are giving him an excuse for his actions. An excuse that he will use to continue his bad behavior.
There is nothing you can do to influence the weather, not a valid example. However, enough people excusing anti-consumer behavior emboldens corporations to keep doing it.
Corporations do market research. They don't just look at sales, they also look at what people think and what they want. So yeah, Nintendo is listening even if not on D-Pad. If they see a bunch of idiots saying 'it's ok that Nintendo never lower their prices as the generation goes, that's business' then they think that people are ok with it. The message consumers SHOULD be putting out there is that they are looking for a better deal. It's the difference between thinking like a consumer instead of an apologist.
Here's an example. Due to widespread agreement that McDonald's prices have become too high, McDonald's introduced new value items. Following that, so did the other fast food places. Now, what if instead McDonald's got the message that people are fine with the prices because people understand that business are supposed to make as much money as they can get away with? In that case McDonald's would not have made any changes.
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