Will BOTW sequel have dungeons?

[Stouffers]

BUT WILL IT HAVE GUNGANS?

 

[Optimus]

BUT WILL IT HAVE GUNGANS?

You killed our thread. I hope you're happy.

 

[Franky Family]

You're not going to agree, buuuut

Since Wind Waker was the weakest 3D Zelda prior to botw, he probably had more influence on it. I mean it makes sense, that was his first game after he was handed Zelda completely.

But I'm just talking shit, I don't know for sure lol. I guess I could look at that.

Twilight Princess could have been better, but ultimately the level design / items are still the best in overall consistency. And I dig the theme.

Could've been re written a bit, to be made darker, not have Zant who was built up the whole game be a joke at the end, some aesthetic changes here and there, but yeah. It's just a lot more modern feeling and fleshed out vs. Ocarina, though I respect that game too much to place it lower than 3rd.

There's no way I can call The Wind Waker the weakest Zelda game. TWW's is a classic. I think the dungeons were okay but could have been much better. The dungeons and the history behind them were kind of weak from time to time but they held up well as dungeons. Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword were the gloomy days for the hardcore fans, but thankfully some really enjoyed them. A lot of fans were not enthused by those two, including me. Skyward Sword is the weakest Zelda and I don't see how anyone can defend it if I were to point out every flaw and add in the proper ridicule it deserves. But that would take an entire day given all the fuckery in that game lmao. I used to really despise that game. But I've calmed down since then some, and can see the game for all that it is much clearer. I'm going to have to replay TWW, TP and SS one of these days

I feel like Anouma has gotten better over time. I only first became aware of him after playing Wind Waker and hating how I never really felt close to death while playing. Any time you're down a fraction of a heart piece, three hearts will just magically appear from any rock, tall grass, or pot. I also hated how every dungeon boss was a puzzle. I also hated that the dungeons themselves were series of f'ing puzzles. It is a tiresome formula.

Okay, so you DO know about Skyward Sword even though you feel that Twilight Princess is the worst. For me, Skyward Sword is the worst for having the most bland, empty, and boring overworld. Literally, it's an empty sky with just a very few islands to visit. The rest of the supposed overworld is down below and is a rather sad place to mill about considering there's no real signs of current civilization down there... It's just one big sleepy lonely game. Although I feel that Skyward Sword has some of the best dungeons ever while Twilight Princess has one of the better overworlds when it's not stuck in darkness. Either way... I feel that both lag behind Wind Waker and don't come anywhere close to approaching Ocarina of Time.

The Wind Waker could have used more difficulty, definitely. A game should be challenging, otherwise it's prone to being a drawn out experience. I wouldn't call TWW drawn out at all, but it was an easy game. I personally don't know why anyone would complain about puzzles in a Zelda game, but to each their own. The games have been always been puzzle dominant inside of each and every dungeon since the original; each one being a puzzle-like maze of sorts that the players will need to work themselves through

Also I recognize Skyward Sword as the worst Zelda game. Twilight Princess was the last Zelda game that Aonuma directed and it was for the best. Skyward Sword is Fujibayashi's work mostly since he was the director, although I'm sure Aonuma put his best into the project to see that it goes smoothly. But yea Skyward Sword, what a letdown that game is. Anything negative you can think of about that game I'm inclined to agree. I wouldn't even call the dungeons great. Not by a long shot. The way in which you navigate through them is very solid. But the presentation is abysmal, and I do mean abysmal. From the outside of each dungeon, to its lore, right down to the events that take place in the dungeons and even the bosses. All of it is fairly poor work imo.

 

[Stouffers]

You killed our thread. I hope you're happy.

I'm doing ok. Thanks for asking.

 

[Chozofication]

There's no way I can call The Wind Waker the weakest Zelda game. TWW's is a classic. I think the dungeons were okay but could have been much better. The dungeons and the history behind them were kind of weak from time to time but they held up well as dungeons. Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword were the gloomy days for the hardcore fans, but thankfully some really enjoyed them. A lot of fans were not enthused by those two, including me. Skyward Sword is the weakest Zelda and I don't see how anyone can defend it if I were to point out every flaw and add in the proper ridicule it deserves. But that would take an entire day given all the fuckery in that game lmao. I used to really despise that game. But I've calmed down since then some, and can see the game for all that it is much clearer. I'm going to have to replay TWW, TP and SS one of these days


The Wind Waker could have used more difficulty, definitely. A game should be challenging, otherwise it's prone to being a drawn out experience. I wouldn't call TWW drawn out at all, but it was an easy game. I personally don't know why anyone would complain about puzzles in a Zelda game, but to each their own. The games have been always been puzzle dominant inside of each and every dungeon since the original; each one being a puzzle-like maze of sorts that the players will need to work themselves through

Also I recognize Skyward Sword as the worst Zelda game. Twilight Princess was the last Zelda game that Aonuma directed and it was for the best. Skyward Sword is Fujibayashi's work mostly since he was the director, although I'm sure Aonuma put his best into the project to see that it goes smoothly. But yea Skyward Sword, what a letdown that game is. Anything negative you can think of about that game I'm inclined to agree. I wouldn't even call the dungeons great. Not by a long shot. The way in which you navigate through them is very solid. But the presentation is abysmal, and I do mean abysmal. From the outside of each dungeon, to its lore, right down to the events that take place in the dungeons and even the bosses. All of it is fairly poor work imo.

Skyward sword really has an awesome foundation ; the most consistently high quality soundtrack, cool items, cool dungeons, esp. ancient cistern (#4) cool backstory although admittedly not as fleshed out as it could be.


It has the most relaxing atmosphere of all the 3D Zelda as well, if you know what I mean.

I could do without some of the motion gimmicks like bomb rolling etc. but in general it controls well. Shooting the bow in particular is really enjoyable, like it is in Wii sports resort.

Wind waker is the most unfinished, and tedious (in terms of exploration) because of the slow sailing and tacked on triforce quest. WWHD made that significantly less painful, but. And the dungeons are not far removed from ocarina's simplicity, BUT I'm not at all calling it a bad game.

For Zelda it's weak, but on its own WWHD is solid, there's still a lot to like.

 

[Franky Family]

My confidence of there being dungeons has gone down in the past few months. Anyone else feel similarly?

 

[Mickmrly]

My confidence of there being dungeons has gone down in the past few months. Anyone else feel similarly?

They haven't really committed one way or another, and I'm thinking its still 50/50. They could try and make the BOTW series not have dungeons or they could try and surprise. I just want to play it and see...

 

[Arkam]

My confidence of there being dungeons has gone down in the past few months. Anyone else feel similarly?

I still feel like I know nothing about what will be different besides floating islands and more vehicles. Every else is a mystery. Could be exactly the same… or fairly different

 

[DonDonDonPata]

My confidence of there being dungeons has gone down in the past few months. Anyone else feel similarly?

if they had corrected one of the major complaints of the first game, I'm sure they would have said it openly by this point.

Nintendo fans need to come to grips with the likelihood that your 'dungeons' are the sky-puzzles.

Aonuma will tell you that you are going to have more fun because "instead of tunnels under the ground, you can see them in the sky from a further distance and you can fly a copter up to the dungeon instead of going down through a door. See? Better!"

 

[Snes nes]

if they had corrected one of the major complaints of the first game, I'm sure they would have said it openly by this point.

Nintendo fans need to come to grips with the likelihood that your 'dungeons' are the sky-puzzles.

Aonuma will tell you that you are going to have more fun because "instead of tunnels under the ground, you can see them in the sky from a further distance and you can fly a copter up to the dungeon instead of going down through a door. See? Better!"

What if your assertion is wrong and there are actual dungeons?

 

[DonDonDonPata]

What if your assertion is wrong and there are actual dungeons?

then wouldn't everyone be happier? I loved BotW and I would love if Tears of the Kingdown (TotK?) blows it out of the water, totally demolishes it and makes it obsolete.

BotW was a good beginning for a better direction for the series, in my opinion. It had a lot of flaws but I like where they were going. TotK feels more like a consession to older series fans who wanted more PuzZelda and less open-world Legend of Zelda. My expectation is that TotK will maybe have as much of the open-world stuff I liked in BotW, but probably not an expansion of those open world mechanics other than some flying stuff (which is merely taking what fans discovered in the original and making it "official") Seems like their focus is putting in a lot more of the puzzle and NPC stuff that I don't tend to like.

 

[Snes nes]

then wouldn't everyone be happier? I loved BotW and I would love if Tears of the Kingdown (TotK?) blows it out of the water, totally demolishes it and makes it obsolete.

BotW was a good beginning for a better direction for the series, in my opinion. It had a lot of flaws but I like where they were going. TotK feels more like a consession to older series fans who wanted more PuzZelda and less open-world Legend of Zelda. My expectation is that TotK will maybe have as much of the open-world stuff I liked in BotW, but probably not an expansion of those open world mechanics other than some flying stuff (which is merely taking what fans discovered in the original and making it "official") Seems like their focus is putting in a lot more of the puzzle and NPC stuff that I don't tend to like.

so you never liked zelda until they made it a open world rpg with less brainwork?

 

[Optimus]

My confidence of there being dungeons has gone down in the past few months. Anyone else feel similarly?

Playing through BotW again, and my confidence in "more dungeons" has gone up. That depends, however, on whether you felt that the Divine Beasts were dungeons. If you did, then I feel confident that there are going to be more of that and different enough from the Divine Beasts to not just be more divine beasts. I'm expecting that some of the islands will be challenges unto themselves where there will be a main boss fight. Will those count for dungeons? Maybe not in a totally traditional sense, but you're going to need to get or activate a map, there may be a special rune that you need to collect, and you will have to beat a boss to leave or move forward -- that's my guess.

Aside from that, nothing else I've seen would suggest that there will be a mighty fortress structure or some deep labyrinth cave with a three-headed dragon waiting to face us. I can dream though.

 

[DonDonDonPata]

so you never liked zelda until they made it a open world rpg with less brainwork?

I enjoyed Twilight Princess, Phantom Hourglass (best puzzles imo), Windwaker (kinda), and the old 2D Zelda games.

I do not enjoy how the combat has gradually diminished with each game. TP had those open-field horse battles which I thought was amazing, and BotW brought that back.

 

[Optimus]

so you never liked zelda until they made it a open world rpg with less brainwork?

I feel like this just demonstrates a lack of understanding the whole series that someone mentions PuzZelda and the assumption is that they only started liking the series with BotW.

Some of us really enjoyed the challenge of the combat in LoZ, LttP, and OoT. We merely tolerated the ramp up in tricky puzzles in OoT and continued to stomach it going forward, but it has been a growing annoyance for us that baddies feel more like mini puzzles or just light obstacles to move past while trickster puzzles are often just time consumers that hold us back from running straight to the boss and killing it without even needing to use a potion.

That is peak sadness for this series.

Brutal honesty: I really disliked Anouma as director of Zelda beginning with Wind Waker because the whole thing has just gotten simpler and easier except for those darn tricky trickster puzzles. Like, reduce the reliance on puzzles for just a moment, dude.

 

[Optimus]

As a side note: replaying BotW and am really digging it again so far. I had recalled that the difficulty seemed to drop right out of the bottom of this thing somewhere mid-way through the game. I'm only gone through the Zora domain and have been taking some time to collect some rare materials. This game is badass when it wants to be and provided you are not totally OP. Those lizalfos with the shock arrows basically surrounding the Zora domain are wicked.

Since I'm deliberately playing this through with the Armor of the Wild set, I've had to go out of my way to get some relatively difficult to come by stuff in order to enhance it. This is definitely the fun part of the game before I build myself up to such an extent that really nothing can challenge me.

 

[Snes nes]

I enjoyed Twilight Princess, Phantom Hourglass (best puzzles imo), Windwaker (kinda), and the old 2D Zelda games.

I do not enjoy how the combat has gradually diminished with each game. TP had those open-field horse battles which I thought was amazing, and BotW brought that back.

In a way it looks like they improved the combat but its not the same as it was. I never played twilight princess but I did play wind waker and it is a step up compared to OOT. In a way BOTW kinda dumbed it down by a large margin but the thing is the combat was always simplistic and not exactly focused on. I mean the old 2d ones you really just mashed the b button and occasionally you'd use a arrow to shot some eye. Windwaker just took that and expanded upon it with a few sword arts but even then it was always basic feeling. OOT was just a 2d zelda in a 3d environment. Which is fine it. I'd rather have that then some huge open world where you wander around and smash rocks aimlessly then put them in a pot and eat them.

I feel like this just demonstrates a lack of understanding the whole series that someone mentions PuzZelda and the assumption is that they only started liking the series with BotW.

Some of us really enjoyed the challenge of the combat in LoZ, LttP, and OoT. We merely tolerated the ramp up in tricky puzzles in OoT and continued to stomach it going forward, but it has been a growing annoyance for us that baddies feel more like mini puzzles or just light obstacles to move past while trickster puzzles are often just time consumers that hold us back from running straight to the boss and killing it without even needing to use a potion.

That is peak sadness for this series.

I always thought of it as a game where you go into a dungeon and there's a few puzzles to solve. In nes zelda you get rupee drops constantly because you need the them to use the arrow which is how you beat the boss or if you didn't notice this you were like me trying to beat it by shotting the sword at it and dodging everything it throws at you and if that doesn't work then just walk right up to it and mash A as much as possible until you or the dragon dies. The boss itself was either a skill test or a disguised puzzle in itself depending on how you take it on. You can defeat it without the bow but its tricky.

 

[Optimus]

In a way it looks like they improved the combat but its not the same as it was. I never played twilight princess but I did play wind waker and it is a step up compared to OOT. In a way BOTW kinda dumbed it down by a large margin. The combat was always simplistic and not exactly focused on. I mean the old 2d ones you really just mashed the b button and occasionally you'd use a arrow to shot some eye. Windwaker just took that and expanded upon it with a few sword arts but even then it was always basic feeling. OOT was just a 2d zelda in a 3d environment. Which is fine it. I'd rather have that then some huge open world where you wander around and smash rocks aimlessly then put them in a pot and eat them.

I always thought of it as a game where you go into a dungeon and there's a few puzzles to solve. In nes zelda you get rupee drops constantly because you need the them to use the arrow which is how you beat the boss or if you didn't notice this you were like me trying to beat it by shotting the sword at it and dodging everything it throws at you and if that doesn't work then just walk right up to it and mash A as much as possible until you or the dragon dies.

I did appreciate in LttP how dungeon items often played a significant role in your ability to beat a boss and would continue to have usefulness going forward. In my mind, LttP represents the pinnacle of boss fight difficulty matched with puzzle-like strategy for beating them. I would not make the same claim about OoT as some of those bosses felt almost broken such as Bongo Bongo who still annoys me severely.

Good times though. I hope TotK will at least give us better boss fights. I really didn't have a problem with the Divine Beasts. The problem for me was that there weren't enough of those types of areas. It was basically 4 Divine Beasts, Yuga clan hideout, and Hyrule Castle -- so like 6 dungeons basically. They will do better than that in TotK, I'm sure.

 

[DonDonDonPata]

In a way it looks like they improved the combat but its not the same as it was. I never played twilight princess but I did play wind waker and it is a step up compared to OOT. In a way BOTW kinda dumbed it down by a large margin but the thing is the combat was always simplistic and not exactly focused on. I mean the old 2d ones you really just mashed the b button and occasionally you'd use a arrow to shot some eye. Windwaker just took that and expanded upon it with a few sword arts but even then it was always basic feeling. OOT was just a 2d zelda in a 3d environment. Which is fine it. I'd rather have that then some huge open world where you wander around and smash rocks aimlessly then put them in a pot and eat them.

it's not so much the "basic" nature of the combat that bothers me. Diablo, for example, is "simpler" in the sense that you click the mouse rapidly and activate cooldown abilities.

But in older Zelda games, combat was front and center eating up most of your time. Puzzles (including NPC fetching) were a side-diversion. When you moved to a new screen there are usually several enemies. Enter a new room in the dungeon and there are enemies, too, and they pose a threat. Over time these enemies became easier and sparser, sometimes narrowing it down to only 1 or 2 enemies so that you can "try out the dungeon's special item". This approach culminated in Skyward Sword

 

[Snes nes]

I did appreciate in LttP how dungeon items often played a significant role in your ability to beat a boss and would continue to have usefulness going forward. In my mind, LttP represents the pinnacle of boss fight difficulty matched with puzzle-like strategy for beating them. I would not make the same claim about OoT as some of those bosses felt almost broken such as Bongo Bongo who still annoys me severely.

Good times though. I hope TotK will at least give us better boss fights. I really didn't have a problem with the Divine Beasts. The problem for me was that there weren't enough of those types of areas. It was basically 4 Divine Beasts, Yuga clan hideout, and Hyrule Castle -- so like 6 dungeons basically. They will do better than that in TotK, I'm sure.

Bongo-Bongo was simple if you realized that the seeing eye wasn't really needed. All you needed to do was L target the hands shot them with a arrow and position youself in between the hands shot the eye with an arrow and then attack the eye then repeat process. The boss fights have always felt simplistic to me. See a eye attack it with the new item boss lays down stunned and you attack it with a sword then rinse and repeat.Nowadays if they were to keep doing this people will say nintendo is getting stale so they have to double down on something that those people would want which is a deviation from the original games into something more trendy.

it's not so much the "basic" nature of the combat that bothers me. Diablo, for example, is "simpler" in the sense that you click the mouse rapidly and activate cooldown abilities.

But in older Zelda games, combat was front and center eating up most of your time. Puzzles (including NPC fetching) were a side-diversion. When you moved to a new screen there are usually several enemies. Enter a new room in the dungeon and there are enemies, too, and they pose a threat. Over time these enemies became easier and sparser, sometimes narrowing it down to only 1 or 2 enemies so that you can "try out the dungeon's special item". This approach culminated in Skyward Sword

I think this was why I didn't quite like botw. It didn't feel the same as the previous zeldas and more of a spinoff. Most older video games were like this. Now the whole demographic changed and there's different things to go do. I think the open world trend was a bad idea. A 3d realm is fine but if even sonic the edgehog is trying to copycat zelda then the trend is a bit of a problem.

 

[DonDonDonPata]

I think this was why I didn't quite like botw. It didn't feel the same as the previous zeldas and more of a spinoff. Most older video games were like this. Now the whole demographic changed and there's different things to go do. I think the open world trend was a bad idea. A 3d realm is fine but if even sonic the edgehog is trying to copycat zelda then the trend is a bit of a problem.

Zelda is bigger than just one "type" of Zelda, that needs to be acknowledged so that perhaps Nintendo can make individual games for fans of each "type" without abandoning others. Over the last ~15 years, 2D and 3D PuzZelda have been really well represented. Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Choo Choo, Skyward Sword, Link's Awakening remake, and Between Two Worlds (if I'm remembering everything). The "action" Zeldas have either been multiplayer 4 Swords style for the 2D fans (not bad games at all), and BotW is the only action-exploration focused game since Twilight Princess by my reckoning.

I could be totally off, that's just how I split up the series in my head based on how "action" or how "puzzley" it is.

 

[Optimus]

I think this was why I didn't quite like botw. It didn't feel the same as the previous zeldas and more of a spinoff. Most older video games were like this. Now the whole demographic changed and there's different things to go do. I think the open world trend was a bad idea. A 3d realm is fine but if even sonic the edgehog is trying to copycat zelda then the trend is a bit of a problem.

You don't like BotW because you glided off the Great Plateau, saw a moblin, he draped you over a stone wall, and you got violated.

At least the baddies in the open world of BotW will own you for much of the first half of the game. At least there's that. The other games, after WW, really didn't have that.

 

[Snes nes]

Zelda is bigger than just one "type" of Zelda, that needs to be acknowledged so that perhaps Nintendo can make individual games for fans of each "type" without abandoning others. Over the last ~15 years, 2D and 3D PuzZelda have been really well represented. Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Choo Choo, Skyward Sword, Link's Awakening remake, and Between Two Worlds (if I'm remembering everything). The "action" Zeldas have either been multiplayer 4 Swords style for the 2D fans (not bad games at all), and BotW is the only action-exploration focused game since Twilight Princess by my reckoning.

I could be totally off, that's just how I split up the series in my head based on how "action" or how "puzzley" it is.

I mean zelda 2 was probably the most action oriented. Just about every zelda game I have played has puzzles in it. I've always viewed it as more puzzle oriented.

You don't like BotW because you glided off the Great Plateau, saw a moblin, he draped you over a stone wall, and you got violated.

At least the baddies in the open world of BotW will own you for much of the first half of the game. At least there's that. The other games, after WW, really didn't have that.

I didn't like it because it wasn't similar to the previous games. Cutting grass was gone, the weapons broke, your objective felt aimless, and it didn't really have dungeons. It felt nothing like the older games.

 

[Optimus]

I didn't like it because it wasn't similar to the previous games. Cutting grass was gone, the weapons broke, your objective felt aimless, and it didn't really have dungeons. It felt nothing like the older games.

Huh? Cutting grass is the best way to catch restless crickets. It's also a good way to get fairies without needing to travel to a spring. You have to do it to harvest wheat and rice too. Is this about rupees?

It feels no more aimless to me than Skyrim. You've got a main objective and some suggested objectives to help get you to the main objective but are unnecessary. Everything else is side quests. Maybe you wanted a numbered list of dungeons to go to, but I don't think that's going to be reality in a game that wants a more organic context for those dungeons.

 

[Snes nes]

Huh? Cutting grass is the best way to catch restless crickets. It's also a good way to get fairies without needing to travel to a spring. You have to do it to harvest wheat and rice too. Is this about rupees?

It feels no more aimless to me than Skyrim. You've got a main objective and some suggested objectives to help get you to the main objective but are unnecessary. Everything else is side quests. Maybe you wanted a numbered list of dungeons to go to, but I don't think that's going to be reality in a game that wants a more organic context for those dungeons.

I don't recall grass cutting ever doing anything in botw. I didn't play botw or skyrim for very long I before I found that I was bored of them. Skyrim is a game I got bored of after maybe the 20 hour mark I'm not sure how long I really played that one. but on the topic of botw it just didn't feel like zelda to me anymore. I liked the previous games like wind waker because it took a interesting spin on the series and had a open world feel without losing what it was. BOTW on the other hand feels like some other game before it if I'm being honest. Its really just another open world zelda game.

 

[Damage inc]

I think the real question we should be asking is whether it will run like shit on the Switch or not. BOTW was a scandalous release on WiiU. And supposedly the Super Switch is right around the corner.


Fixed for ya.

I've come to the understanding that after so many years of trying BOTW on switch I hated it. Turns out it's the performance that drove me nuts. Playing it on Pc at the moment and it's soo much better.