Xbox Series S vs ray tracing: the story so far
The Xbox Series S is, on paper, every bit as feature-rich as the Series X. It's based on the same fundamental RAM, stor…
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Thread: Xbox Series S vs Ray Tracing - Every RT Title Tested - The Story So Far
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We thought the Series S would hold the new generation back, but in the end, the new generation just never started.
- Platforms
You currently buy a Series S from GameStop for $250
Thing is an absolute performance beast for that price point
Thing is an absolute performance beast for that price point
Likely the worst mainstream console of all time.
Thankfully the market rejected it and I doubt it will get good support in the years to come. The OG XB One struggled a lot due to lack of power but the series S is drastically worse.
Thankfully the market rejected it and I doubt it will get good support in the years to come. The OG XB One struggled a lot due to lack of power but the series S is drastically worse.
cryptoadam
Needs a Spellchecker
- Platforms
If I was MS I would take the risk of creating a Switch like device with the S. I am sure they could shrink it down and slap a screen on it and probably sell it for 399.99.
- Platforms
I salute you chad it took some self control to wait until the fifth post to start complaining about Xbox
Stifler's Mom
I've got some Scotch
- Platforms
Got one for 190 Euros.
Crazy amazing value, games look fantastic.
No idea what problem people have with the Series S.
Next gen, I'd buy the same product again.
Developers have supposedly been the biggest critics of it, as its low specs are kneecapping them and partially to blame for how slow it's been to get new games out, and how little difference there is between current and last gen.
It's also sold like shit.
It's the only current gen console to have stock constantly available, so people have been content to just go without than buy it over an XSX or PS5, and we know it's selling half as many units or less than the XSX from what few sales reports give actual units, even in it's strongest territories.
I'd give an estimate of it being 1/8th of current gen console sales at the absolute most, and given Xbox's worse sales ratio to Playstation this gen even than last gen, I'm probably being generous.
I really hope MS stick with it though, because as long as they're forcing games to have to run on it, they'll also run on Steam Deck.
To me something like this was the only way it would make sense. After the success of the Steam Deck MS would have to be completely clueless not to do it.
Great way at looking at it. I think it might also massively benefit the Switch 2, depending on how powerful it ends up being it could end up getting ports of everything because the Series S is keeping the minimum requirements really low.
Stifler's Mom
I've got some Scotch
- Platforms
I have friends with PS5s and XSXs, and honestly, for double the price I don't see double the graphics quality there.
Would probably be a thing with a 4K TV, but with my old 1080p one it's like getting almost the same thing for much less money.
That said, my friend with the PS5 also has an Series S, and even on his 65 inches Panasonic OLED TV, I don't think that the difference is THAT HUGE, that I would want to run to the next store and get a PS5 or XSX instead.
YMMV off course.
Nikana
I'm A Power Ranger 'Til The End
On 1080p it'll be less noticeable for sure. But even on a decent 4k screen, most people won't care. The switch has proven people don't care.
Graphics and resolution peaked in 7th gen, everything since is squeezing less and less blood from a harder and harder stone.
Just look at Ray Tracing. Sure, it's definitely an improvement, but it's not so massively better that it really justifies the huge price and performance premium it requires, and that's the only real stand out improvement we've had graphically for over a decade now.
As enthusiasts many gamers bemoan the Switch for being underpowered, but quite honestly if it could just maintain 30/60fps and 720p, even with the low or below low graphics, I don't think that would be an issue, as the Steam Deck proves, so the XSS really isn't a bad idea on paper, and I'd say it's failure is more down to MS's managerial incompetence and hold over 'bigger numbers = better' dumb fuckery amongst platform warriors and plebs.
I don't even think the difficulties devs are having with making games for it is down to the system, so much as poorly managed dev teams, meddling from corporate and marketing heads and AAA bloat.
The fact we have had such stellar 'impossible ports' to Switch, along with the frankly supernatural results Valve have managed with the Steam Deck tools, pretty much make the idea that modern games are both over developed and achieving diminishing returns kind of undeniable.
I hope that next gen, with the cost of living and supply chain issues increasing, we'll see this approach of going low power and maximising value for money becoming more of the norm.
If Sony and MS both (re)enter the mobile space, all the better, particularly for Sony, as making games that work on both a PS6 Portable and a more powerful standard PS6, would make optimising every single game for PSVR3 an absolute doddle.
Basically the XSS is the right idea at the right time, but from the wrong people. But it wouldn't be the first time MS has had a good idea, that took other people taking a stab at it to get it right.
I cant take the Series S seriously as a good value proposition. Good value is paying an extra $200 and getting a Series X or PS5 instead, with double the storage, disc drive, much faster memory, a lot more memory and far better GPUs.
The Series S is cheap but has terribly low value, that's why it failed and that's why they can't move enougth units even with discounts. Suff like being small (but not portable) or cheap/easy to produce adds no value to the pruduct from the PoV of someone looking for a console.
The GPU market is a good example the cheapest GPUs pretty much always had the worst value by far(far worse than even the most expensive GPUs). You need to pay a little more to actually get in range of the GPUs that have great value.
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Nikana
I'm A Power Ranger 'Til The End
Nicktendo
Switch Master
Series S is fucking trash. I stupidly bought one close to launch when I got caught up in the GamePass hype.
Certainly fun in the sense that you can go through Xbox's back cat of shit from OG, 360 and One and often play these games in their best state - 1080p, 60fps, faux HDR depending on your screen etc.. All that stuff is great, no doubt, especially if you skipped a 360 or a One. But when your "Next Gen" Forza Horizon 5 looks and runs markedly worse than Forza 4, including at a lower resolution with a metric shit-ton of pop-in, you know you done goofed.
The machine is clearly holding next-gen development back for MS. Many games run at sub 1080p when dynamic resolution is supported. It is not a next gen machine, it's a great, cheap device for playing Xbox's back catalogue. Even my base-range 4-year-old PC ran modern games better than the Series S. Anyone who is serious about new releases should just buy a Series X or a PC / PS5. This box is a waste of time and money if that is what you are after. I can't even get rid of mine second-hand because no cunt is stupid enough to drop $150 on this thing.
Certainly fun in the sense that you can go through Xbox's back cat of shit from OG, 360 and One and often play these games in their best state - 1080p, 60fps, faux HDR depending on your screen etc.. All that stuff is great, no doubt, especially if you skipped a 360 or a One. But when your "Next Gen" Forza Horizon 5 looks and runs markedly worse than Forza 4, including at a lower resolution with a metric shit-ton of pop-in, you know you done goofed.
The machine is clearly holding next-gen development back for MS. Many games run at sub 1080p when dynamic resolution is supported. It is not a next gen machine, it's a great, cheap device for playing Xbox's back catalogue. Even my base-range 4-year-old PC ran modern games better than the Series S. Anyone who is serious about new releases should just buy a Series X or a PC / PS5. This box is a waste of time and money if that is what you are after. I can't even get rid of mine second-hand because no cunt is stupid enough to drop $150 on this thing.
I wouldn't even say it's great for backwards compatibility. If it had a disk drive, then yeah, fantastic, but a 'retro' gaming system that can't play physical media is near worthless.
Like I say, look at the Switch and SD. Even weaker, but brilliant.
Realistically the Switch 2 won't be as powerful as the XSS, but is basically guaranteed to beat both the XSS and XSX combined, even with their years headstart.
Like I said, right idea at the right time, but wasted due to MS's lack of managerial competence.
Nicktendo
Switch Master
Yeah the lack of disc thing sucks if you have a collection. I signed up for a year of GamePass and got a good 10 months out of it. Had a blast playing some old favourites and some games I'd missed. Halo Infinite and Forza 5 were supremely underwhelming on that device, they both looked like complete ass and nothing close to "next gen".
At least with a Switch everyone knows where they stand when it comes to the tech and its capabilities. Series S is just a massive con job.
But is that the hardwares problem?
The games you sight as proof of the XSS's failings are both first party titles, that should have been made by teams that knew the hardware's limits and capabilities better than any third party, and yet they're failing were others are succeeding.
Even putting the SD aside, because that's due a lot to Valve's wizardry, there's plenty of AAA third party titles that are undeniably current gen, but run on toaster PC's far below the power of the XSS without problems.
MS simply did not take the right approaches or manage it's studios correctly with regards to it's two current gen systems.
The PS4PRO last gen is the model that they should have taken, with the two systems near identical apart from doubling up on the GPU side, and the extra RAM required of 4K resolutions, making development solely a matter of resolution scaling and maybe some minor extra bells and whistles with anything left over, focusing on the lower spec system as the baseline.
Instead they made numerous differences with every component, and chose to have their studios work on the XSX and downport to the XSS, making every title a matter of how big they make the cut backs to get things running.
Like I keep saying, no matter which way you cut it, the comparisons to similar successes in the wider industry always point to the real issue being the decisions made by the Xbox higher ups, as is the case with basically everything that happens at MS these days.
I paid £190 for a new Xbox Series S, have game pass on it and it's great for me and my kids. I used to fuck around streaming steam to tv pc but it was always a pain up the arse. I never owned an xbox console before but have xbox one controllers for PC so can play all the multiplayer games with kids. They've been playing It Takes Two and love it. Also been trying out so many other games with them, from Xbox's back catalogue. 60fps 4k HDR Oblivion is like a dream to me. Not that bothered about getting extra performance.
Sejan
Member
- Platforms
Value is relative to the person making the purchase.
This is where I see the Series S making the most sense. Its a cheap, "good enough" console for the kids or other non-enthusiast people. The series S is a great option for the family that wants to buy it and an annual subscription to Game Pass. Its a great option for the guy that only wants to play the latest sports game alongside his favorite team through the season and nothing else.
Obviously, the Series X and PS5 are the better consoles for the enthusiast, but a $200 product might just be an easier sell to a cash strapped family looking for a Christmas present than a $500 PS5 even if the performance is worse overall.
If you have an X1X (best console MS has made since 360 IMO) then the Series S is nigh-on worthless.
And the recent NPD numbers prove that yes, the Series S is an absolute failure. They should have slapped an SSD in the 1x (It takes 5 minutes, if you DIY). then that would have been more cost-effective. MS could have banged those out at £150 a pop and sold a load of them, but they didn't.
I genuinely think that unless Phil Spencer is removed, the Xbox division will be cut loose from Microsoft, something corporate have wanted to do since the 360 days.
And the recent NPD numbers prove that yes, the Series S is an absolute failure. They should have slapped an SSD in the 1x (It takes 5 minutes, if you DIY). then that would have been more cost-effective. MS could have banged those out at £150 a pop and sold a load of them, but they didn't.
I genuinely think that unless Phil Spencer is removed, the Xbox division will be cut loose from Microsoft, something corporate have wanted to do since the 360 days.
If only that were how it worked.
Edit: I also think the console is trash, but that is coming from an enthusiast pc gamer. A casual would find it to be a wonderful console. I also don't think graphics or resolution have peaked already - not even close - and these weak, multi-plat game systems aren't doing me any favors.
Nikana
I'm A Power Ranger 'Til The End
I'd love to see some evidence that the S has failed from everyone claiming it. Its starting to sound just like the people who touted it would be dropped within 2 years. Lets see some evidence.
Phunkydiabetic
Prince of the Land of Stench
You're not totally wrong, but the XOX wouldn't make a good current gen console.
That CPU is dogshit and the GPU tech is a generation behind what's in the XSS, even if in raw Tflops it absolutely cains it.
The XOX is absolutely amazing hardware for the price, but it's amazing by the standards of it's contemporaries, not modern systems. It might be fin of all yu care aboutnus resolution, but it will simply not be able to render things that the XSS can, even if the image clarity is higher.
- Platforms
Nikana
I'm A Power Ranger 'Til The End
Search for the NPD threads, UK and Japanese sales charts, Xbox's Activision acquisition evidence, mentions of the XSS being in stock in old discussions about the PS5 and XSX selling out instantly, and the world wide sales ratios for Xbox and Playstation last gen, that we know Xbox has regressed from in current gen, by both their own admission and official sale trackers.
Basically don't come into a discussion you've not prepared for, then cast doubt on the knowledge of others that have been paying attention to the massive amount of publicly available evidence you've chosen to ignore, because the impetus isn't on others to carry your laziness.
- Platforms
I think most people are just saying its trash no? Which it is
I'm saying the opposite.
It's sold like shit despite being good hardware, because MS doesn't know how to run a gaming platform properly.
Nikana
I'm A Power Ranger 'Til The End
None of what you said supports its a "failure."
Again. Lets see evidence that its a failure. A console not being as in demand as others does not make it a failure. Xbox being outsold by playstation does not make xbox a failure. Sounds like you have a if you're not first you're last mentality. By that regard, Ps5 is a massive failure too.
Don't claim I am not paying attention by asking you to prove your claims.
Basically, dont come into a discussion you are not prepared for. It makes you look silly.
Slap a new CPU inside it. I know that sounds dismissive of your post, it isn't intended to be. I agree that the CPU is shite, but it can still bang out some good looking games. B3 and Tinas wonderland look bloody fantastic on it. And, slapping a new CPU/GPU inside would still have worked out cheaper than to produce the S.
Hell, Microsoft could have beefed up the 1X, knowing they had sod all games coming and then dropped the Series X alongside their first party bangers. That extra time to work on the Series X would have been much needed as well, as they're still struggling with the software of the console. Luckily, no next gen games exists that would highlight the discrepancy between it and PS5.
failure
/ˈfeɪljə/
noun
/ˈfeɪljə/
noun
- 1.
lack of success.
"an economic policy that is doomed to failure"
I guess by your definition the Wii U, Ouya and Stadia were great successes?
Nikana
I'm A Power Ranger 'Til The End
Yeah sure totally. We are dabbling in whataboutism now?
failure
/ˈfeɪljə/
noun
- 1.
lack of success.
"an economic policy that is doomed to failure"
I guess by your definition the Wii U, Ouya and Stadia were great successes?
Just the definition of a success. By every metric, even Microsofts own metrics for success, the Xbox series, in particular the S, is not a success.
And you know this. So why attack a poster who comparing facts and then accuse him of looking silly for using said facts?
If you want, i can spend 2 minutes on google and pull up all of the articles of Microsofts' latest internet reports highlighting where they have failed. Or the NPD figures that show Xbox Series sales are behind the Xbox One, which was described by the industry as one of the worst launches of electronic products in recent years.
- Platforms
The difference is that Series S was marketed as a lower cost alternative for people who couldn't afford the primary flagship console: Series X
It in no way should be held against hardware like Wii U or the Ouya as it was chasing an entirely different market base and utility
If we're going by the standards of what MS considers a success or failure, rather than historical standards of console failures like the Gamecube, Vita and WiiU, which the current best estimate sales trajectory of the XSS would put it in the lower end of the scale for, by the end of the generation, then sure, we don't know for certain if they're unhappy with it or not.
Given that we know that, even with supply constraints and massive demand for current gen consoles, the XSS has failed to sell out during nearly the entire generation so far, and is already getting heavy discounts during Christmas and holiday sale events, which is all in stark contrast to the XSX and PS5, its a safe bet to assume it's not exactly going as well as they'd have hoped.
But yeah, sure, I'm the one talking out of my arse here.
Slapping a new CPU and GPU inside it basically IS the XSX, and it would be almost the same cost as the XSX to boot, but with worse RAM.
The XSS just needed the exact same CPU and RAM as the XSX, and to have been the base system developed for internally (also a disc drive option, even if just an external optional add on).
MS doesn't need 2 machines targeting 4K, just to have had a better plan and properly managed approach to it's software to take into account the realities of selling two systems with different resolution targets.
The reason the XOX and PS4PRO are still doing such a good job keeping up with current gen is not because they're more powerful than the XSS, but because gaming itself has plateaued out in terms of graphical advancements, which is really the only consideration most developers take into account.
And that's really not a bad thing, because that means there is a slim hope that gameplay, physics and enemy AI will potentially start to actually be worked on again, which is currently no more advances than it was in 6th gen, and often worse than the best of that era.
It should be compared to the Wii U and Ouya because they chased the 'casual' market (in terms of how much they spend). Microsoft wanted a cheap alternative to the next gen, which is Nintendo's MO and the idea behind Ouya.
All fair points. Back int' day on gaf, I was sure, absolutely positive, that the S was going to be a handheld to push Xcloud and compete with the Switch. I think Microsoft missed a trick there.
I think, hope and believe, that VR will be the 'reset' we're looking for, at least until it becomes a mainstream device. It is picking up steam and it's only a meta of time before it get's a big enough push to be a serious platform, but not too big that gamergrrlll, wii-granny and joe casual get their hands on it.
I agree though. When I see the physics in a game like Half-Life 2 which is donkeys old at this point, and it's still one of the best examples of physics in a game, it makes me sad. There are cookie-cutter things that should be the foundation of every game, with the cherries and bells and whistles placed on top.