[GreyHorace]

The brouhaha over the recent previews for Amazon's LOTR streaming series Rings of Power is one just of the latest in a long line SJWs trying to infect beloved IPs and losing their shit when people don't like it. Hell, the teaser for the Amazon show was bombarded in the comments with JRR Tolkien's famous quote regarding evil's inability to create, in different languages even:

This quote seems more relevant today, seeing as woke Hollywood types are trying top one up each other in trying to force racial diversity and inclusion into existing works that had none of it. From The Wheel of Time, The Witcher, Dungeons and Dragons and now Tolkien's Middle Earth. SJWs will argue that these works must be retooled to fit the world of today. Well I call bullshit on that, since said retooling sometimes changes the work so drastically as to make unrecognizable from the original work. We saw this in the Netflix's adaptation of The Witcher and it's forced diversity casting plus the blatant wholesale change of the lore established in the books. I've not read the Wheel of Time books by Robert Jordan, but judging from the overall negative the Amazon series has been getting from WoT fans, I'm guessing it was a shit show as well.

This leads me to ask the question that is at the top of this thread, why can't these SJWs make their own goddamn fantasy property instead infecting existing ones with their woke ideology?

Most of them will probably whine how hard it is to create your own fantasy story. Horseshit I say. Noted lefty scifi author Michael Moorcock, who disliked the writings of Tolkien and his friend CS Lewis (detailed in his essay Epic Pooh), created his famed Elric Saga in response, which is now considered a classic of modern fantasy:

Then there's Phillip Pullman, noted English author and atheist, who created the His Dark Materials series due to his intense dislike of CS Lewis' popular The Chronicles of Narnia. Pullman's work was popular enough to be adapted into a film in 2007, and a steaming series on the BBC in 2019.

For the record, I dislike both Moorcock and Pullman for their attacks on Lewis and Tolkien. But it doesn't change the fact that these two put their money where their mouth is and actually created their own fantasy stories. Unlike the SJWs who whine constantly and don't do shit.

And I'd argue in this day and age it'd be much easier for a new work of fantasy to catch an audience. Witness the success of Crunchyroll's High Guardian Spice-

Er- I mean Arcane on Netflix.

Arcane should not have been good. It contains after all, a lot of the elements that I've come to despise in media today. Such as stronk womyn protagonists, a racially diverse cast, LGBTQ representation and a politcally charged plot. But despite that, Arcane is one of the best fantasy media I've ever seen, owing to it's gorgeous animation, fantastic story and compelling and memorable characters. To think that an animated show based on League Legends would actually revive my interest in the genre after all the shit we've had in recent years.

But what do you guys think?

 

[CAB_Life]

Because they're creatively bankrupt. Most SJWs are only capable of either living in fantasy or clinging to established social trends for validation. The same could be said of people entrenched on the far, far right too. Ideological extremes don't give one the elasticity or depth of perception necessary for creative thought.

 

[Calcium]

They know nobody is going to watch the shit they create so their only option is to corrupt established properties.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

I think they do, and then it gets corrupted by people who follow the SJW rule book closer than they do, and since those creators are already ostensibly on the left they are willing to admit maybe they're wrong and their overlords are right. Look at Neil Druckmann having someone on staff just to tell him if he's not being progressive enough.

 

[GreyHorace]

I think they do, and then it gets corrupted by people who follow the SJW rule book closer than they do, and since those creators are already ostensibly on the left they are willing to admit maybe they're wrong and their overlords are right. Look at Neil Druckmann having someone on staff just to tell him if he's not being progressive enough.

That implies that Druckmann is a creative pussy and is not confident enough in his own artistic ability. You're a joke if you need some woke editor on your payroll to edit your work.

 

[Snes nes]

I think the drinker got a good explanation as to why.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

That implies that Druckmann is a creative pussy and is not confident enough in his own artistic ability. You're a joke if you need some woke editor on your payroll to edit your work.

It's just an example, tho, I assume many creatives have left leaning sensibilities and as a result will be overridden by people above them making the big decisions. If Peter Jackson was told to put more blacks in LOTR would he have pushed back? Maybe, but how hard? They have their limits but think about JK Rowling who's totally based on trans stuff but went on to say Hermoine could be black (even with evidence she was written white). The pressure to not seem racist is real in these industries.

 

[Snes nes]

It's just an example, tho, I assume many creatives have left leaning sensibilities and as a result will be overridden by people above them making the big decisions. If Peter Jackson was told to put more blacks in LOTR would he have pushed back? Maybe, but how hard? They have their limits but think about JK Rowling who's totally based on trans stuff but went on to say Hermoine could be black (even with evidence she was written white). The pressure to not seem racist is real in these industries.

why though and how are they making money off this crap?

 

[DonDonDonPata]

Because it's more about power than true creativity. They want power over popular things other people have made even though they already have the power to create their own brand-new IPs.

I think it's because, instinctively, they understand making up something new from your own imagination risks bombing and not getting that delicious praise. This is still an entertainment industry. Plenty of movies / books / videogames fail despite best efforts. Plus if it bombs and it's your idea, it's a major blow to a narcissist's ego. So, they'd rather write fan-fiction in other people's universes and pass its newfound popularity off as their own.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

why though and how are they making money off this crap?

They usually aren't, but powerful forces want this diversity stuff shoved in regardless of the sense it makes. Brandon Sanderson finished Wheel of Time when Robert Jordan died, he also wrote Mistborn and is currently doing Stormlight Archive, his books do not feature forced diversity bullshit, but the Wheel of Time show which he was a consultant on... DID... and he talked it up as a GOOD thing in interviews. Regardless of how they would create their own worlds they will CAVE to the people above them demanding more diversity.

 

[GreyHorace]

It's just an example, tho, I assume many creatives have left leaning sensibilities and as a result will be overridden by people above them making the big decisions. If Peter Jackson was told to put more blacks in LOTR would he have pushed back? Maybe, but how hard?

I personally think Peter Jackson would not give a shit and tell them to fuck off. Let's not forget he recently made a documentary on British soldiers in World War 1.

A documentary celebrating filthy white men in a war? I'm surprised SJWs haven't crucified him for it.

They have their limits but think about JK Rowling who's totally based on trans stuff but went on to say Hermoine could be black (even with evidence she was written white). The pressure to not seem racist is real in these industries.

Rowling was stupid with the hole black Hermoine thing, but she gained my respect for standing firm on the whole trans issue.

I think it's because, instinctively, they understand making up something new from your own imagination risks bombing and not getting that delicious praise. This is still an entertainment industry. Plenty of movies / books / videogames fail despite best efforts. Plus if it bombs and it's your idea, it's a major blow to a narcissist's ego. So, they'd rather write fan-fiction in other people's universes and pass its newfound popularity off as their own.

This is why I love Tolkien. The success of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings caught him completely off guard, as he never imagined anyone would enjoy this secondary world he created as a hobby. He would have been quite content if no one knew any of it if not for the encouragement of friends like CS Lewis.

The man was a humble and unassuming guy who didn't crave fame or success. The complete opposite of a narcissist.

 

[Snes nes]

They usually aren't, but powerful forces want this diversity stuff shoved in regardless of the sense it makes. Brandon Sanderson finished Wheel of Time when Robert Jordan died, he also wrote Mistborn and is currently doing Stormlight Archive, his books do not feature forced diversity bullshit, but the Wheel of Time show which he was a consultant on... DID... and he talked it up as a GOOD thing in interviews. Regardless of how they would create their own worlds they will CAVE to the people above them demanding more diversity.

idk about the powerful forces thing. There has to be a way the are earning money from it some kind of money laundering is going on and its really fishy stuff why are all these celebrities suddenly liberals someone is slipping a check under the desk to them and its gotta be a hefty sum of money.

 

[Pumpkin Seeds]

One element why: They grow up reading/writing fanfic which trains them to self-insert and cop/steal existing ideas. So all their writing training isn't creative writing but more like playing with dolls. Not that doll play isn't important, just that its not the same as creating a world your own.

 

[lock2k]

Destroying is easier than building something.

It takes minutes to destroy what took years to build. Think about it.

 

[Cryptek]

They sometimes do and a lot of times it doesn't sell, so they have to instead inject their garbage into existing IPs.

It's one way to spread their propaganda easily enough while also sticking it to the "white straight dudes" by inserting their crap in movies, games and comics that were once cherished by those white straight nerds. It's "revenge" to them.

 

[Zeta Dragoon]

How could people with a desire for a Orwellian world ever conceive of anything that could be considered actual good fantasy? They can't, their frame of mind literally does not allow for the morality and sense of right and wrong that one needs.

 

[lock2k]

They sometimes do and a lot of times it doesn't sell, so they have to instead inject their garbage into existing IPs.

It's one way to spread their propaganda easily enough while also sticking it to the "white straight dudes" by inserting their crap in movies, games and comics that were once cherished by those white straight nerds. It's "revenge" to them.

It's funny that these idiota love to get revenge at white men but most of these SJW chicks crave white cock. lmao

 

[Grinchy]

A virus wants to mutate and spread. The mind virus is no different. And the easiest path for that is a strong host.

What's a stronger host than an already established brand or IP? If you want to reach a bunch of people with the the ideals you learned on Twitter two weeks ago, the easiest way to broadcast it to young minds is through massive shows, movies, games, etc. Creating something new reaches only a fraction of that audience. Plus, you already know the demographic makeup of an existing property's consumers.

Wanna reach a bunch of "toxic males?" Put a bunch of people in charge of The Last of Us who think a world that's supposed to be filled with dangerous infected people should take a backseat to lesbian romances, a new perspective on how muscular the female body can be, trans kids, and the strength of pregnant women. Who the fuck cares if it makes sense anymore, you gotta spread the message if you want to be responsible with your platform.

 

[lock2k]

A virus wants to mutate and spread. The mind virus is no different. And the easiest path for that is a strong host.

What's a stronger host than an already established brand or IP? If you want to reach a bunch of people with the the ideals you learned on Twitter two weeks ago, the easiest way to broadcast it to young minds is through massive shows, movies, games, etc. Creating something new reaches only a fraction of that audience. Plus, you already know the demographic makeup of an existing property's consumers.

Wanna reach a bunch of "toxic males?" Put a bunch of people in charge of The Last of Us who think a world that's supposed to be filled with dangerous infected people should take a backseat to lesbian romances, a new perspective on how muscular the female body can be, trans kids, and the strength of pregnant women. Who the fuck cares if it makes sense anymore, you gotta spread the message if you want to be responsible with your platform.

Except the true Alpha males didn't care about TLOU in the first place because it's lame. But you are right.

 

[Saruhashi]

This leads me to ask the question that is at the top of this thread, why can't these SJWs make their own goddamn fantasy property instead infecting existing ones with their woke ideology?

I think it's a combination of factors but mainly I think their mindset is that they are outsiders, or are championing outsiders, and so they look at popular things and think "I want a piece of that".

So they don't want to make their own things. They want YOUR things.

This is compounded when they see something that they perceive as being popular among Straight White Males. Their logic dictates that the reaction should be "no way you must share this and it must change to be acceptable to others".

I am personally not a fan of Jordan Peterson but one of the main arguments against him is "your content is popular among young white men". Which is a bit of a strange argument if you think about it.

Awful shit like this illustrates the mindset quite well, I think:



His argument boils down to "yes, there was a massively successful marketing campaign after the videogame crash of the mid-80s that built the industry up to the billion dollar juggernaut it is today but was it wrong to market to boys?"

Well, obviously not. The actual growth of the medium speaks for itself and any alternative history hypotheticals are just that. So it's beyond dumb to argue that the popular thing shouldn't be doing what it's doing because it makes some people feel left out.

Which brings it round to Star Wars and LotR etc.

I think everyone knows that a lot of these things are enjoyed by nerdy dudes living mostly in western, English speaking, nations. However those dudes also never shut the hell up about these things and they buy merch and have long conversations about this stuff and so the popularity and cultural influence just grows and grows. In the age of social media though people need to be seen doing whatever the popular thing is and so they see "holy shit Star Wars is popular, I need to get in on that" but they also see it's mostly white dudes who are really into that shit and that will not stand.

They are effectively saying "can't we have a turn with the Star Wars" like the poor kid on your block who wants to have a shot of your new bike. Fuck off you've got your own shitty bike. Except now they are using talking points like White Privilege etc to make it seem like they are owed a shot of YOUR bike.

This was basically the Sarkeesian talking point years ago. Look at all these games and look at their content! It;s not welcoming to women!

OK so maybe make your own games then? Like does Hitman or Assassin's Creed NEED to be made to appeal to women? Why not just make other games that have the content you want?

No. They want to play THOSE games and they don't want you to have it all to yourself.

See also difficulty options in games.
If games are indeed art then difficulty and challenge is part of the art.
A developer could literally design a game with five levels but it's impossible to get past level one and they could just say "well this is how life is sometimes and that's what my art represents".

What you get from these people is "everyone is talking about Sekiro and I want to talk about Sekiro but it's too difficult so I am going to cry that I am excluded until someone changes this thing". Go and complete other games? No! They want to change YOUR game. They want to make sure that you have to change your experience in order to accommodate them.

There are definitely people out there with a "if I can't have the thing then nobody can" mindset so I doubt they much care if this or that gets ruined. You can sometimes see that mentality with younger people and relationships. Some guy gets dumped by his girlfriend so instead of growing a pair and getting over it he goes around talking shit about her and telling lies in an attempt to poison her future relationships. I've seen it a few times. There are people like that out there.

Look how quickly some people will flip from "videogames are art and should be taken seriously" to "oh no is the silly nerd upset about electronic toys" when it suits them. On one hand this medium is to be taken seriously. On the other hand you care too much when something you take seriously gets shat on.

Same deal with LotR just now. An absolute giant in the medium of fantasy literature is turned into "a book about wizards and shit for kids" as soon as the wrong people express displeasure in how it is being changed. That's such a contradiction, you know. It's SUPER important that these things are open to all and are inclusive and everyone feels like it's made just for them but also hahaha you are an idiot for caring about this thing they are dismantling.

In my opinion, none of it will really matter in the end as eventually people will still find their own forms of entertainment elsewhere. So, yeah, maybe the shows that cost a billion bucks to make will be the most popular but people who can appreciate good writing will just find their niche elsewhere. Until that becomes popular. YouTube was once kind of like that but, of course, as soon as the mainstream saw that YouTubers were wildly more popular than the bullshit on TV they went on the attack. We'll probably see shit like that with gaming and movies etc some day. Think we are already seeing it in the comics industry with several "excommunicated" creators just going into business on their own and having success.

 

[DonDonDonPata]

I think it's a combination of factors but mainly I think their mindset is that they are outsiders, or are championing outsiders, and so they look at popular things and think "I want a piece of that".

So they don't want to make their own things. They want YOUR things.

This is compounded when they see something that they perceive as being popular among Straight White Males. Their logic dictates that the reaction should be "no way you must share this and it must change to be acceptable to others".

I am personally not a fan of Jordan Peterson but one of the main arguments against him is "your content is popular among young white men". Which is a bit of a strange argument if you think about it.

Awful shit like this illustrates the mindset quite well, I think:



His argument boils down to "yes, there was a massively successful marketing campaign after the videogame crash of the mid-80s that built the industry up to the billion dollar juggernaut it is today but was it wrong to market to boys?"

Well, obviously not. The actual growth of the medium speaks for itself and any alternative history hypotheticals are just that. So it's beyond dumb to argue that the popular thing shouldn't be doing what it's doing because it makes some people feel left out.

Which brings it round to Star Wars and LotR etc.

I think everyone knows that a lot of these things are enjoyed by nerdy dudes living mostly in western, English speaking, nations. However those dudes also never shut the hell up about these things and they buy merch and have long conversations about this stuff and so the popularity and cultural influence just grows and grows. In the age of social media though people need to be seen doing whatever the popular thing is and so they see "holy shit Star Wars is popular, I need to get in on that" but they also see it's mostly white dudes who are really into that shit and that will not stand.

They are effectively saying "can't we have a turn with the Star Wars" like the poor kid on your block who wants to have a shot of your new bike. Fuck off you've got your own shitty bike. Except now they are using talking points like White Privilege etc to make it seem like they are owed a shot of YOUR bike.

This was basically the Sarkeesian talking point years ago. Look at all these games and look at their content! It;s not welcoming to women!

OK so maybe make your own games then? Like does Hitman or Assassin's Creed NEED to be made to appeal to women? Why not just make other games that have the content you want?

No. They want to play THOSE games and they don't want you to have it all to yourself.

See also difficulty options in games.
If games are indeed art then difficulty and challenge is part of the art.
A developer could literally design a game with five levels but it's impossible to get past level one and they could just say "well this is how life is sometimes and that's what my art represents".

What you get from these people is "everyone is talking about Sekiro and I want to talk about Sekiro but it's too difficult so I am going to cry that I am excluded until someone changes this thing". Go and complete other games? No! They want to change YOUR game. They want to make sure that you have to change your experience in order to accommodate them.

There are definitely people out there with a "if I can't have the thing then nobody can" mindset so I doubt they much care if this or that gets ruined. You can sometimes see that mentality with younger people and relationships. Some guy gets dumped by his girlfriend so instead of growing a pair and getting over it he goes around talking shit about her and telling lies in an attempt to poison her future relationships. I've seen it a few times. There are people like that out there.

Look how quickly some people will flip from "videogames are art and should be taken seriously" to "oh no is the silly nerd upset about electronic toys" when it suits them. On one hand this medium is to be taken seriously. On the other hand you care too much when something you take seriously gets shat on.

Same deal with LotR just now. An absolute giant in the medium of fantasy literature is turned into "a book about wizards and shit for kids" as soon as the wrong people express displeasure in how it is being changed. That's such a contradiction, you know. It's SUPER important that these things are open to all and are inclusive and everyone feels like it's made just for them but also hahaha you are an idiot for caring about this thing they are dismantling.

In my opinion, none of it will really matter in the end as eventually people will still find their own forms of entertainment elsewhere. So, yeah, maybe the shows that cost a billion bucks to make will be the most popular but people who can appreciate good writing will just find their niche elsewhere. Until that becomes popular. YouTube was once kind of like that but, of course, as soon as the mainstream saw that YouTubers were wildly more popular than the bullshit on TV they went on the attack. We'll probably see shit like that with gaming and movies etc some day. Think we are already seeing it in the comics industry with several "excommunicated" creators just going into business on their own and having success.

Thankfully I think the creativity of the hobbyists will always outpace the gluttony of the corpos and the ideologues.

In the early 00s, I really really got into ascii roguelikes, before "roguelike" meant something different. Angband, NetHack, ADOM, and Dwarf Fortress were the big time sinks. I also loved a few online MUDs. What I enjoyed so much was the incredible detail and complexity of every item. Everything could be thrown as a projectile. Don't forget your towel. Wishing in sinks and trying to rob stores were strategies unto themselves. A cockatrice could turn you to stone, but if you had gloves you could wield its corpse and turn enemies into stone by hitting them. And anything could kill you. Despite the primitive graphics (at best, some roguelikes had crude tile sets with no animation) the complexity felt amazing, unlike anything the AAA industry was making. Then a few years later "roguelikes" in more accessible genres appeared like Minecraft and Don't Starve. Now it seems like roguelike elements have infected more games than Bioshock-style progression systems in shooters.

So I have confidence good games and good books will always exist to outpace the bloated Consoooomer. In fact those things may very well define what becomes
Popular once it catches on. It is very annoying to see favorite franchises get thrown to the normies, though.

 

[brap]

they dont care to create and dont have enough talent. they want to take thing and add blacks, gays and trannies. its the same shit with people who "translate" games. they add shitty jokes, change things and insert their politics. they dont actually want to translate they want to make their own stuff but they dont have any talent for it. its the only way they can do it.