VFX_Veteran

Industry Professional (Verified)
 
Platforms
  1. PC
  2. PlayStation
  3. Nintendo
All,

Thanks for the opportunity to join this site! I am hoping that it will be a more pleasurable experience interacting with the fans here. I will be hosting my graphics analysis talks on this site going forward. Without further ado, here's my take on The Medium (xbox/pc).

Some people complained that the Medium is unoptimized in hopes that it would give credence to the argument that most dev studios need years of learning new hardware in order to extract out the full potential of hardware. I resist this claim and so I decided to download The Medium and take a look at what's going on.

My initial impressions of the Medium is that this renderer is focused on "quality" pixels. What does this mean? It means that most pixels that make up a frame are pretty costly and return an extremely good approximation to the rendering equation. For example, if I pass a vertex through the pipeline and begin to texture it with a typical texture (i.e. 2k) and then evaluate it through a typical directional light source using the simplest diffuse equation (i.e. Lambert) along with adding a basic specular highlight - my pixel is relatively cheap in cost. However, if I was to make that same pixel use a complex Oren Nayar diffuse model, sample an area light, then add a GGX specular model with anisotropy, I've made a very expensive pixel. Here's a vid of the PBR materials and how you can tell how complex they are:



The Medium goes above and beyond this with their graphics engine using RT. But it doesn't stop there. I can only "guess" at how their rendering pipeline would be like with so many individual framebuffers to fill up. Their 2 world camera system with individual rendering isn't exactly half the performance, but it's definitely a big drop. Let's take that system and put RT in the mix and on top of that render RT transparency materials. Too ambitious.

Ray traced transparency is the #2 most computensive calculation in ray-tracing. Here's a pic of a recent talk at the GDC over RT transparency:

4ea62b69d59f4e3d586113bc07571c8f.png

It's great that it's order independent. That means no sorting polygons first before running through the rest of the pipeline. Bad for computing fresnel calculation using an index of refraction term. Downside? Still using texture-space though. Still no worldspace calculations like in film but it's a start.


1ec53c052ec331000e4a0fccb51c164d.png


In the far right upper corner column, you see a ray being cast to an object. It doesn't stop there, it travels through the object to the other side where it has to continue to travel and hit objects behind it. Add a transmission algorithm for the BTDF (transmission function) and possibly many samples to get frosted glass like in the bottom image, and you get a demand that is beyond the capabilities of current hardware (including the 3090). Look at this video of me proving that..




Moving the camera away from the window increases FPS dramactically as the renderer only has to process opaque triangles.

Now to really hit home the point, I did a test whereby I render the entire window door (large object) to take up the entire camera view to force the entire shader to run to simulate what an offline render would do when every single pixel is casting multiple rays in this complex BTDF shader. The results are telling:




FPS drop to the 8s and that's with Balanced DLSS. Realtime RT of this nature is simply not doable on realtime hardware yet. I expect that the next iteration of graphics cards (if they aren't just mild upgrades) could see the likes of nearly the entire rendering engine using worldspace RT with all features enabled. Turning off RT increases the FPS by nearly 6x. A very costly material.

As an aside, I have to nitpick the lack of ambient occlusion. They decided to skip RT ambient occlusion on the dynamically moving character on the floor. She walks across it but her feet aren't planted on the floor. I can't stand this. Nearly every single game still has problems using occlusion properly. We really need to get the GI component of the rendering equation more accurate in these games.



These are my initial impressions of this game. The big takeaway from this post is that some games have cheap cost to each pixel like MIP mapping a small 2k texture/normal map with one directional light source and possibly some screenspace FX. These aren't expensive pixels to render and they show in their appearance if you look at them individually. However, this game and some other ones that have complex rendering algorithms with RT lighting are considered to have "expensive" pixels to render in the pipeline. The Medium does some really radical things with gameplay and forcing a huge bandwidth bottleneck with this game due to it's complex RT decisions and it's dual framebuffer rendering with completely different assets and FX. I think for the Xbox crowd, this should be a game to be proud of because of it's complexity (similar to FS2020 when it releases to XSX).

Lastly, this game is running on UE4. The GPU usage is maxed out at 99%. It's thoroughly rendering the fastest it can and no resources are unused with very little wasted cycles. Unoptimized? Not really. Bad decision to use such an expensive RT feature? Yup. Rendering very expensive pixels and their design for the game forces that. Furthermore, holding 2 different framebuffers where very little data may be cached is asking for trouble. It's not a knock against the studio but really a praise IMO. Very few studios will outright push the hardware to it's knees like Crytek/iDSoftware did back in the day. I like the game and think I'll keep it and skip out on RE8 for now. I'm liking the story.
 

Nobel 6

Hyper Lethal
 
Platforms
  1. Xbox
  2. Nintendo
Great post even if half of it is way over my head.

Anyway, in your opinion is raytracing not quite ready for primetime except with limited usage with today's graphic cards and consoles limitations and do other less expensive light and shadow techniques make more sense for now?
 

VFX_Veteran

Industry Professional (Verified)
 
Platforms
  1. PC
  2. PlayStation
  3. Nintendo
Great post even if half of it is way over my head.

Anyway, in your opinion is raytracing not quite ready for primetime except with limited usage with today's graphic cards and consoles limitations and do other less expensive light and shadow techniques make more sense for now?
They'll stick with a hybrid approach for now. Even the RTX 3090/6800XT isn't quite up for it hence the need for DLSS. But I'm glad that it's here tbh. It took way too long. It'll get better with future generations.

I just think Bloober studio loved the RT idea and tried to implement it to get tech points on the game. Same with Cyberpunk.

Right now, 4A Games (makers of Metro) seem to have some really good coders and know how to make an entire pipeline RT. Some other companies will surely get there this generation but they'll have to cut down the resolution since RT is directly dependent on the resolution of a game.
 

Zefah

Breaker of Signatures
 
Wow, awesome to have you here, @VFX_Veteran ! I wanted to like this game, but the performance on RTX 3080 even with DLSS was abysmal when I tried it on GamePass, so I just dropped.

Really interesting to read your analysis.
 

VFX_Veteran

Industry Professional (Verified)
 
Platforms
  1. PC
  2. PlayStation
  3. Nintendo
Wow, awesome to have you here, @VFX_Veteran ! I wanted to like this game, but the performance on RTX 3080 even with DLSS was abysmal when I tried it on GamePass, so I just dropped.

Really interesting to read your analysis.
Thanks sir!

Yea man.. it's pretty brutal on hardware. It's better when you turn off RT though. It eats up memory too. Just too much right now for hardware. Maybe next gen.
 
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Arc

Banned
Member
Enjoying this on Xbox now, so that was a really fun read.

I’m not an expert, but it seems kind of like a young studio mistake to make. To push things so far in areas, without optimization and dialing things down a bit. To an extent, some of that hardware usage probably could have been reduced and deployed to other areas for greater effect.

I’m quite impressed by the dual reality stuff (and some other things) though. The way the world can change in an instant (to great effect in one action scene), the splits, the still high quality of visuals... some people had a lot of late nights making such a cool system (visually and gameplay) work.
 

regawdless

hare-assment
 
Platforms
  1. PC
Great analysis!

I can't stand "floating" objects and characters that are caused by bad AO/lighting.

Curious about the bad performance. Seeing how the Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition will feature full on RT lighting and apparently runs pretty good on the new Nvidia cards, I wonder where these huge differences in performance come from.
 
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Dr Bass

Member
I like your write-ups and YouTube channel. Better info than Digital Foundry IMO, because you've worked in the field and actually understand the material and can spot it and explain it better. Your explanation of why The Medium "underperforms" just makes so much sense from a programming standpoint.
 

VFX_Veteran

Industry Professional (Verified)
 
Platforms
  1. PC
  2. PlayStation
  3. Nintendo
Great analysis!

I can't stand "floating" objects and characters that are caused by bad AO/lighting.

Curious about the bad performance. Seeing how the Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition will feature full on RT lighting and apparently runs pretty good on the new Nvidia cards, I wonder where these huge differences in performance come from.
Well, 4A is very talented crew. I wouldn't assume every studio is like those guys. The other thing is that Metro isn't trying to RT glass/transparency. Hardware just isn't up to snuff for that yet.
 

Zefah

Breaker of Signatures
 
I like your write-ups and YouTube channel. Better info than Digital Foundry IMO, because you've worked in the field and actually understand the material and can spot it and explain it better. Your explanation of why The Medium "underperforms" just makes so much sense from a programming standpoint.

VFX has a YouTube channel? Please share!
 

DoctaThompson

Member
Platforms
  1. PC
  2. Nintendo
Great write up as usual. I think the devs were a little too ambitious, as you can tell this game pulls down even the greatest GPUs currently available. Hopefully we can put an end to Moore's law, and with the architecture of future AMD GPUs with chipplet design, can bring significant changes.
 
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Komatsu

I ❤️ Nintendo
Fantastic write-up as usual. Hopefully we won't have to worry about the same handful of salivating fanboys crashing every thread of yours here.

I am RT-skeptic, I still think the performance/outcome trade-off is still a ways off. I have a test bench set up to play around with different parts and, frankly, neither CP2077 nor The Medium RT implementations wowed to such as extent as to make me think the performance hit is worth it.

Here's a quick comparison in the same room in which you recorded your first video (which I've taken from different YT feeds, I am a bit too lazy to capture it raw myself at the moment):

iZLDMoT.png


Do the cabinet doors and the glass on the framed butterflies look more realistic with RTX on? Absolutely. Does it make enough of a difference to justify the performance hit? IMHO, nope.

This reminds me a bit of the bloom-mania of the mid-2000s, when suddenly every studio out there was saturating their games with it and, frankly, it never looked that good to me.
 

teezzy

Let me have my wanks
 
Platforms
  1. PC
  2. Xbox
  3. PlayStation
  4. Nintendo
Can't wait to snag this during a Steam sale for like $20 or something.

Interesting assessment here. I hear the game is sorta dull overall, which has been deterring me from it more than anything. Shame too, because I was hella hyped from the first trailer.
 
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Arc

Banned
Member
Can't wait to snag this during a Steam sale for like $20 or something.

Interesting assessment here. I hear the game is sorta dull overall, which has been deterring me from it more than anything. Shame too, because I was hella hyped from the first trailer.
Worth a try on GamePass.

I like it quite a bit. It gives me those good PS2 horror game feels, particularly Silent Hill, but different enough and with enough time gone by to feel like its own entity. It won’t burn the barn down, but if you like these games, I can’t imagine you wouldn’t enjoy this too.
 
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