Thread: FPGA is no MiSTery |OT| 2025 update: It's now affordable
Official Thread

HariSeldon

Cat Tailor/Amateur Rapper
Platforms
  1. PC
  2. Nintendo
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What The Buggery Bollocks Is FPGA?
So many of you won't know what FPGA is. I could give a long and technical explanation but I'm not sure anyone would want to read it so I'll keep it simple. If you've seen the Analog Mega Sg and Super Nt or their Pocket you'll already have encountered FPGA even if you don't realise it. FPGA is the most accurate way of doing emulation, the ultimate. FPGA allows you to design chips using HDL which is also how real hardware is designed - these designs allow the FPGA chip to change on-the-fly to match your design, allowing you to run sets of processors in parallel on a single chip. For instance, on a MiSTer box, if you load the Minimig (Amiga) core, it'll set part of the FPGA to be a 68000 CPU running at 7MHz and other parts to be the Paula, Agnes and Denise chips. You can swap over to an Amiga 1200 by swapping out the 68000 for a 68020 and upgrading the chipset around it, and so on. Having that 68000 design allows us to use it later in the design of the Atari ST, early macs, the Sega Genesis, NEO GEO, Sega's System 16 and Capcom's CPS-2. The modularity allows endless creativity.


Why Not Just Emulate?
A software emulator has to run everything on your CPU which means it has to translate everything as it goes and in the end do everything in sequence. It works, and it's amazing, but it introduces lag because you can't have the kind of parallelism and perfection of timing that you get with a genuine FPGA setup. You get that little touch of lag which isn't such a problem when playing Civilization, but is a huge problem when playing Kick Off 2.


Why Not Just Get Real Hardware?
Real hardware is expensive, and rots. Much of the great hardware of the 80s and 90s is now in short supply due to cheap capacitors leaking where the machines were stored in lofts, and to be fair these machines were never meant to last 30-40 years - often they were built on the cheap. Other machines have issues with clock batteries leaking, screens dying, etc. Then there are issues with disks, tapes and cartridges which will only get more fragile and harder to replace over time. If you get something like an Amiga you'll need to get the capacitors replaced and put a Gotek drive in it due to the issues with floppies. FPGA has given some of these systems a new lease of life by allowing creation of replacement parts for these older systems which can match up perfectly with the older hardware.


How Do I Get An FPGA Gadget - The Easy Way?
You could just get an Analog Mega SG, Super NT or Pocket. They'll cost you a few quid and availability is limited, but they offer a slicker experience than the more DIY approach of MiSTer.


How Do I Get An FPGA Gadget - The DIY Way?
So MiSTer is a descendent of the MiST project which sought to use FPGA to recreate the ST and Amiga lines of computer. MiSTer has expanded prolifically and now contains 'cores' (more on that shortly) for a wide variety of machines.

You'll need the following:

Terasic DE-10 Nano Development Kit
https://www.mouser.co.uk/new/terasic-technologies/terasic-de10-nano-kit/ - £129.62
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MiSTer SDRam XS-D v2.5 128MB Module
https://misterfpga.co.uk/product/mister-sdram-128mb-module/ - £52.99
Most cores require some SDRam - 128MB will get the Neo Geo cores working

Optional: USB Hub
https://misterfpga.co.uk/product/usb-hub-for-mister-fpga/ - £32.99
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This comes with spacers and link to allow it to sit beneath the DE-10. The alternative is plugging in a powered USB hub to the DE-10's OTG. It's messy doing it that way so I don't wholly recommend it.

Optional: IO Board With Fan
https://misterfpga.co.uk/product/mister-fpga-io-board-xl-v6-1-with-fan/ - £41.99
This one isn't essential but I like to keep my MiSTer cool and have the option of using a VGA cable (choose the analog option from the link), I added a heatsink to the main chip too.

Optional: Case
https://misterfpga.co.uk/product/mister-case-acrylic/ - £24.99
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Makes it all a bit nicer and tidier.

People to follow on Twitter:
- https://twitter.com/AzumFpg - Currently developing save states - this guy is a machine, specialism seems to be handheld
- https://twitter.com/Woozle64 - General FPGA guru
- https://twitter.com/MickGyver - Making Nes/Snes controller to USB adapters
- https://twitter.com/sentientsixp - News
- https://twitter.com/srg320_ - Making the Sega Saturn core
- https://twitter.com/topapate - Master of Arcade cores
- https://twitter.com/MisterAddons - US supplier for the non-de10 bits of MiSTer
- https://twitter.com/MrX_8B - another legendary core developer
- https://twitter.com/MiSTerFPGA - MiSTer news
- https://twitter.com/SmokeMonsterTWI - not active anymore but he made a lot of useful videos
- https://twitter.com/Laxer3A - Building the PS core
- https://twitter.com/AshEvans81 - Working on Atari Jaguar
- https://twitter.com/analogue - Commercial FPGA

Current MiSTer core list:
- A shedload of arcade stuff
- 486 PC
- Acorn Atom
- Matra-Hachette Alice MC-10
- Altair 8800
- Amiga (500/600/1200)
- Amstrad CPC 464/6128/etc
- Apogee BK-01
- Apple 1/2
- Mattel Aquarius
- Acorn Archimedes
- Bally Astrocade
- Atari 800/2600/5200
- Atari Lynx
- Atari ST/E and Mega STE
- AY-3-8500 (Pong On A Chip)
- BBC Micro
- Electronkia BK
- Commodore 16
- Commodore 64
- Tandy Color Computer 2
- Dragon 32
- Colecovision
- Sega SG-1000
- Gameboy
- Gameboy Colour
- Gameboy Advance
- Genesis/Mega Drive
- Jupiter Ace
- VTech Laser 310
- Mac Plus
- Mega CD
- MSX
- Neo Geo
- NES
- Magnavox Odyssey 2 / Videopac
- Orao
- Oric 1 and Oric Atmos
- Commodore Pet
- Sinclair QL
- SAM Coupe
- Sharp MZ
- Sega Master System
- Snes
- ZX Spectrum 48k, 128k, Next
- TurboGrafx 16 / PC Engine / CD
- Texas Instruments TI-99/4A
- Tandy TRS-80
- Vectrex
- Commodore Vic 20
- Sharp X68000
- Sinclair ZX80/81





I'll aim to keep this thread updated with news of new cores, new features, etc.
 
Analogue said they would be restocking the SuperNT again sometime in March or April. I've been on the lookout for that. Everything on their store has been sold out for months now. Right now on Ebay they are $700+.
 
Analogue said they would be restocking the SuperNT again sometime in March or April. I've been on the lookout for that. Everything on their store has been sold out for months now. Right now on Ebay they are $700+.

Total bill of materials for a fully-stacked MiSTer box is £300 - can do it for less if you don't want the case, IO board and USB hub. Added a list of implemented cores to the OP so you can see what you get for your money.
 
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I will definitely get one of these one day.
It is still quite pricy, say compared to a raspberry pi, so I would like to see it become more of a commodity and prices drop to say 50-75$, a price range where that will be within reach for most people even as a impulse buy.

What would I use it for? I mostly play PS1/PS2 nowadays and for that I already have plenty of hardware so I don't need FPGA or emulation. But
At some stage I would like to build a full-size cabinet for space invaders to have in my game room. That would be awesome.
 
I will definitely get one of these one day.
It is still quite pricy, say compared to a raspberry pi, so I would like to see it become more of a commodity and prices drop to say 50-75$, a price range where that will be within reach for most people even as a impulse buy.

What would I use it for? I mostly play PS1/PS2 nowadays and for that I already have plenty of hardware so I don't need FPGA or emulation. But
At some stage I would like to build a full-size cabinet for space invaders to have in my game room. That would be awesome.

Tbh the price isn't going to get any better. Intel are selling it at a loss as it's not meant for us lot, it's meant for students learning how to design chips and Intel make the money on the premium versions of Quartus (the chip design software - there's a free edition that's still pretty useful though). Consider the minimum of a DE-10 and the RAM will cost you about £200 - an Analog Mega Sg is $189, the Pocket is $199, the Super Nt is $189, and so on. Bear in mind the addons allow you to do things like plugging in a floppy drive, adding a tape drive to play original Spectrum tapes, connect old controllers via SNAC addons, etc, you get a lot of flexibility.

For you if you have hte hardware then no this won't be of use to you. In a perfect world I'd have all the hardware, but I lack space and thousands of pounds to buy everything I want. Next best thing is FPGA which is basically the actual hardware when you consider you can replace chips in real systems with FPGA versions. For Space Invaders, the Pi might just do. The pi is quite laggy and Retropie is a truly awful piece of software where the MiSTer is one of the easiest gadgets to work with that I've come across in the retro scene. The thing to remember with general-purpose machines running standard modern operating systems is that processor availability is quite patchy - where older systems could generally rely on having the processor to themselves with the OS only really serving to help with disk access etc, ie specifically doing work for the game you're running rather than doing behind-the-scenes stuff, modern systems don't have that luxury as Windows and Linux are both quite prone to lag. Even if you patch in a real-time kernel on Linux it's not perfect. There's a reason why Atari STs (bear in mind they came out in 1985) are still considered useful in the music business - their timing is perfect where with Windows or Mac it isn't.

Going back to what you might do with a MiSTer - we likely won't see PS2 but PS1 is coming along, as is Saturn, and I think N64 is doable too. However, it's arcade where the lack of lag is particularly relevant, so Street Fighter 2, SF Alpha 2, etc. Plug in a CRT monitor to that and you've got an absolute beast of an arcade setup going on - btw running Robotron, Pacman, etc on it is awesome. And yes it has Space Invaders. Basically, outside of real hardware, if you're wanting to play anything 8 or 16 bit, or any of the many supported arcade machines, a MiSTer is the best option. Once the PS1 and Saturn come out it'll likely be the best option for those too. It won't be an option for PS2 and beyond, but maybe the next generation of FPGA devices might take us there.
 
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topapate said:
I've been working non-stop to find the bug in the QSound chip producing the distortion, but I still haven't got it. So there is no CPS2 update this week.

To make up for it, and because I know some people miss 80's games, I am offering you one of my personal favourites this week: Shinobi.

By the way, I want to thank FunkyCochise and AMoore2600 for lending me their System 16/18 boards to work on this.

KNOWN BUG: IF YOU WIN THE BONUS STAGE, THE GAME HANGS UP

A particular technical feature in this arcade is that the PCM sounds are produced by a microcontroller, similar to how QSound works. It sounds really nice compared to other 80's titles.

We will go back to CPS2 next week. I found a good lead for the distortion bug this morning, so hopefully, I will close that chapter over the weekend.

Have ninja fun!

So this is the guy who's been bringing Capcom CPS 2 stuff to MiSTer, seems he's also made a start on Sega System 16 which should get us a bunch of really cool stuff. Woohoo!
 


Save states already exist in the Gameboy and GBA cores and now the NES one is coming some time today. Fantastic news. Note that save states are a little trickier to do on MiSTer vs emulation as you have to save the state of RAM AND the state of the CPU. This of course requires freezing the CPU at a set state and that's also easier said than done.
 
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A buddy has offered to help me build a simple tabletop arcade unit. I have several nice VGA monitors to pick from, and the arcade controls will be easy to install. I'm thinking of using a mister + vga output as the guts since it'll be easy to manage screen geometry using the monitor's own settings menu + dials.
 
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A buddy has offered to help me build a simple tabletop arcade unit. I have several nice VGA monitors to pick from, and the arcade controls will be easy to install. I'm thinking of using a mister + vga output as the guts since it'll be easy to manage screen geometry using the monitor's own settings menu + dials.
Sensible, and you'll be pleased to know that you can do this on it...

 
I'm still waiting for them to bring PGM and CV1000B over to the Mister. I believe it has compatibility w all the 68000 stuff which is nice.

That said, the first arcade build will definitely be in tate.
There's a lot of really good progress being made on the arcade side. The one I'm excited for is Sega System 16 which is in the works as that might lead us to its successor, the Outrun system.
 
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Wow, PowerMonger looks awesome. Wish I played it back in the day.
It still holds up brilliantly, I shit you not, it's a fantastic game. Wish the frame rate was better but the world simulation is tied to the frame rate so it just makes everything zip about too fast if you try running on a Mega STE or sped up for a modern pc.
 
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Today's new video is Football Manager (the classic Kevin Toms version, not the modern SI Games Championship Manager renamed version). It's old but cool in it's own way.
 
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In today's video we compare Gazza 2 against Kick Off 2 - like comparing a shambling drunk with Ronaldo. Gazza 2 is unspeakably bad. We've got Turrican 2 coming on Friday, Virus/Zarch on Monday, Captain Blood on Wednesday. On Twitch we have F-19 Stealth Fighter coming this Sunday and Damocles next Sunday.
 
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captain blood is a strange game

love your videos, curious about turrican 2 and others (damocles looks like it belongs in hell)
 
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captain blood is a strange game

love your videos, curious about turrican 2 and others (damocles looks like it belongs in hell)
Captain Blood is VERY odd. I don't think you could make that game today. As for Damocles - trust me, it's brilliant. It's a 3D treasure hunt of sorts set over a whole solar system with some wonderful British humour (think Hitchhiker's Guide and Red Dwarf). The very sparse look helps keep frame rates above the 2 seconds per frame of something like Midwinter but also creates a wonderful feeling of loneliness as the last man in the solar system trying to solve a mystery with no help.
 
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I played (or tried to) Captain Blood when it came out on ZX Spectrum+ and it was mind boggling in both good and bad ways. Very imaginative game indeed.
 
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I played (or tried to) Captain Blood when it came out on ZX Spectrum+ and it was mind boggling in both good and bad ways. Very imaginative game indeed.
Didn't realise it came out on the Spectrum - must have been cut down considerably. In my playthrough for the video I encountered a randy alien but couldn't quite figure out how to help him.
 
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Robert Peip continues his wonderful work on save states, bringing them to the NES core. I've been playing with the beta and it's super-reliable, and now it's in the mainline core.

The C64 has been getting a lot of love lately, especially the SID chip, with some real hardcore work going on to make it even more awesome.

Fast loader for C64, yes please!

I've been rather falling in love with the C64 of late, it's such an amazing little machine, when you look at early games in the early-to-mid-80s which were so incredibly basic you might not think the machine capable of much, then you see what it was doing in the late-80s early-90s and it's incredible tbh, at times blowing the Atari ST (16-bit vs the C64's 8-bit) out of the water. The CPU sucked but the chipset was absolutely incredible. And the purity of the games on that system, man I missed out at the time but I'm having a lot of fun with it now.
 
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Brilliant mag, really cool passionate motherfuckers making it. Would post in the other retro thread but I'm buggered if I can find the other retro thread, I feel like there was one but it keeps hiding.
 
The UK gaming magazines in the 80s were superb, I loved getting my hands on Your Sinclair and Crash and the likes when I was a kid. Every time I see photos from them I feel very very nostalgic.
 
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The UK gaming magazines in the 80s were superb, I loved getting my hands on Your Sinclair and Crash and the likes when I was a kid. Every time I see photos from them I feel very very nostalgic.
ST Format was my main drug of choice (hence the ST Format Challenge) but I did pick up a few issues of Zero. Recently I've been reading early Zzap and I'll be honest it's very much of its time but it's also fucking brilliant.
 
I can't be the only one to think @Mista made this thread because of the MiSTery in the thread title, right? 😂

On topic: Read about FGPA a bit on the previous place a bit a few days before I made the switch, sounds really promising to continue retro gaming in an authentic way once real hardware dies. I'd probably try an Analogue system, the entry level approach first if I find it in stock. Though the DIY approach seems fascinating as well, provided I have the skills to properly assemble it and set it up
 
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Going live tonight with F19 Stealth Fighter. Let's hope I don't have bogies all over me.

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I'll be running on an Atari ST on my wonderful MiSTer box. Finally brought my stream into this century with a proper overlay for Twitch chat in stream, proper scenes and transitions, etc.
 
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Going live tonight with F19 Stealth Fighter. Let's hope I don't have bogies all over me.

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I'll be running on an Atari ST on my wonderful MiSTer box. Finally brought my stream into this century with a proper overlay for Twitch chat in stream, proper scenes and transitions, etc.

Awyiss.

MiSTer + some Microprose flight sim goodness. You speak the language of my people! I'm looking forward to this stream, mate 🍺
 
Awyiss.

MiSTer + some Microprose flight sim goodness. You speak the language of my people! I'm looking forward to this stream, mate 🍺

Not sure if you caught it - don't think so as nobody chatting mentioned D-pad or cat tailoring, but it'll be on my Twitch for a while, not sure how long they last til getting deleted, and I'm currently trimming the waiting timer off it to throw it onto YouTube.
 
Not sure if you caught it - don't think so as nobody chatting mentioned D-pad or cat tailoring, but it'll be on my Twitch for a while, not sure how long they last til getting deleted, and I'm currently trimming the waiting timer off it to throw it onto YouTube.
I caught part of it, mate! I'm zacharycomstock_ on Twitch. It's great to see one of the best GAF members here and enjoying some 16-bit flight sim action too.

When I get home, I'm going to hunt for a mint boxed copy of F19 on eBay :cool:. Safe landings, mate. Hope to catch some of your streams in the future.
 
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I caught part of it, mate! I'm zacharycomstock_ on Twitch. It's great to see one of the best GAF members here and enjoying some 16-bit flight sim action too.

When I get home, I'm going to hunt for a mint boxed copy of F19 on eBay :cool:. Safe landings, mate. Hope to catch some of your streams in the future.
Ah in that case I think you got most of the good bits. Definitely worth getting F19 by any means necessary. I don't have space for original hardware and big boxes so MiSter does it for me but the Microprose boxes were amazing. And the game absolutely holds up. Next game is Damocles btw, same time next week. Likely to run that over a few weeks as it's a big game and can't really self contain to a mission like F19.
 
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First post here lol :). Oh no, we get to see your face, arrgghh, lol, j/k'ing. Good to put a face to the madness, loved the video, keep it up mate.
I would love to try F19, my Amiga 1200's kinda sick at the moment(needs recap/timing issue resolved, i think....hopefully :) ) but when its sorted will be back playing what you're playing!!!
Oh and loved the Turrican 2 review, first time ive seen/heard the ST version, ok im biased towards the Amiga version but the ST chiptune music is kinda cool, also they did a great job of it on the ST considering the limitations/CPU doing most of the heavy lifting.

Looking forward to Damocles, was great in text but will be better in video :)
 
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