[regawdless]

They both look like dead eyed soulless mannequins. What are you getting at here?

I try to get banned for console warring.

 

[VFX_Veteran]

They both look like dead eyed soulless mannequins. What are you getting at here?

The lighitng/shading - which is much better in the SF NPC than the FFXVI one.

 

[Hostile_18]

I'm really not sure on this. Getting the same vibe I got from No Mans Sky and Death Stranding. The concept is nice, but ultimately there's a lot of big empty spaces and walking, with not much going on.

I do like more the character based locations and cities though. For me I want Skyrim in space, with exciting storylines and side quests.

 

[Zefah]

I only watched a bit of that showcase, and while there were no wow moments for me, it looks good enough. I do wish their setting was a bit more fantastical, but I'll take it. I haven't been let down by a mainline Bethesda game yet and it looks like they actually made the combat somewhat engaging in this one, so definitely looking forward to it.

Still 20% off at greenmangaming today, although I imagine it will be available for even cheaper near launch at various CDkey sites.

 

[Zeta Dragoon]

You can build your own ships and you know what will happen.
Q

Will likely go for something sleek and arrow like. Possibly like a superheavy U-Wing. If I can get my hands on a Capital Ship going to go for a Imperial Star Destroyer like wedge though without the exposed tower bridge design.

Ala the Finalizer class Battlecruiser, one of the very, very few cool things the Sequels did.

 

[Phunkydiabetic]

The lighitng/shading - which is much better in the SF NPC than the FFXVI one.

Barely. It looks like a typical Gamebryo lifeless block of clay character, albeit gussied up a bit let's be real.

 

[Torrent of Pork]

Barely. It looks like a typical Gamebryo lifeless block of clay character, albeit gussied up a bit let's be real.

If Starfield looks like a gussied up Fallout 3 to you I presume you've not been impressed by anything in the past decade then.

 

[Vyse]

Link to the Whole Starfield Direct. Expect a full breakdown over the next week or so.

Man, that was a really good showcase. Exploration and combat look so fun. I like the weird and creative alien enemy designs too. It's going to be really interesting to see how they might improve upon the base game over the next couple years. It's definitely on my radar to play one day.

 

[Cryptek]

I

I'm really not sure on this. Getting the same vibe I got from No Mans Sky and Death Stranding. The concept is nice, but ultimately there's a lot of big empty spaces and walking, with not much going on.

I do like more the character based locations and cities though. For me I want Skyrim in space, with exciting storylines and side quests.

I really trust the developer so I think this is going to be an awesome game. It's pretty much Elder Scrolls in space and if it's done right people will still be talking about hidden locations or objects after a decade.

However since it's Bethesda behind this game expect io to be broken without multiple patches on release date.

In Todd we trust.

 

[Phunkydiabetic]

If Starfield looks like a gussied up Fallout 3 to you I presume you've not been impressed by anything in the past decade then.

I wasn't taking about Starfield in general, I was talking specifically about the patented gamebryo character "look". It's all so stiff and plasticine, dead. It's like a wad of clay that's had animated eyes and an animated mouth slapped on. Certain aspects looks a bit better, textures or hair but in the end it's the same Gamebryo characters. A gussied up version of them if you will.

Here's an example that's kinda hilarious...

I mean come on

Edit - I gotta cut Bethesda SOME slack, along the way theyve managed to figure out how to make the eyebrows move

 

[Explosive Zombie]

I wasn't taking about Starfield in general, I was talking specifically about the patented gamebryo character "look". It's all so stiff and plasticine, dead. It's like a wad of clay that's had animated eyes and an animated mouth slapped on. Certain aspects looks a bit better, textures or hair but in the end it's the same Gamebryo characters. A gussied up version of them if you will.

Here's an example that's kinda hilarious...

I mean come on

The characters absolutely mar an otherwise great looking game. Also the news that there are loading screens for interiors (it's one thing that I can't fly from one planet to another seamlessly like No Man's Sky but this?) and will be capped at 30 just eh... Bethesda has never been the top dawg for tech, they've occasionally had games that really impressed at the time like Oblivion at launch but it was never doing EVERYTHING best and some elements were always JANK as Hell. The trend continues.

 

[Phunkydiabetic]

The characters absolutely mar an otherwise great looking game. Also the news that there are loading screens for interiors (it's one thing that I can't fly from one planet to another seamlessly like No Man's Sky but this?) and will be capped at 30 just eh... Bethesda has never been the top dawg for tech, they've occasionally had games that really impressed at the time like Oblivion at launch but it was never doing EVERYTHING best and some elements were always JANK as Hell. The trend continues.

And yet I'm still hyped as all fuck cause it's a new Bethesda rpg. I would've preferred a new Fallout but ok I'll take this.

 

[Torrent of Pork]

I wasn't taking about Starfield in general, I was talking specifically about the patented gamebryo character "look". It's all so stiff and plasticine, dead. It's like a wad of clay that's had animated eyes and an animated mouth slapped on. Certain aspects looks a bit better, textures or hair but in the end it's the same Gamebryo characters. A gussied up version of them if you will.

Here's an example that's kinda hilarious...

I mean come on

Edit - I gotta cut Bethesda SOME slack, along the way theyve managed to figure out how to make the eyebrows move

Bro you chose the one joke npc that is a direct reference to Oblivion.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

And yet I'm still hyped as all fuck cause it's a new Bethesda rpg. I would've preferred a new Fallout but ok I'll take this.

I'm excited but it looks light on RPG elements to me.

 

[Kadayi]

I'm excited but it looks light on RPG elements to me.

TBF, they could have spent less time on the shootie-bang-bang and a bit more on the conversation system during the showcase IMHO. However, at the same time, I'm kind of ok with not getting spoiled on plot points too much.

 

[Relativ9]

The characters absolutely mar an otherwise great looking game. Also the news that there are loading screens for interiors (it's one thing that I can't fly from one planet to another seamlessly like No Man's Sky but this?) and will be capped at 30 just eh... Bethesda has never been the top dawg for tech, they've occasionally had games that really impressed at the time like Oblivion at launch but it was never doing EVERYTHING best and some elements were always JANK as Hell. The trend continues.

I think this is mostly true for any open world RPG. The mere fact that characters have to be doing something 24/7 means you can't go hyper detailed and lifelike on animations, you have to use procedural systems to help create animations otherwise your entire team would do nothing but edit keyframes for 8 years of development.

This combined with the engines limited use of things like subsurface scattering, bounce lighting, and the sheer amount of dialogue which needs to be animated means you'll never get convincing animations (at least until AI authoring can improve).

Strip back Cyberpunk 2077s nice graphics and it has the exact same problem.

 

[Phunkydiabetic]

Bro you chose the one joke npc that is a direct reference to Oblivion.

Hmm. Is this character a joke npc referencing Oblivion as well?

I'm not sure what there is to defend here.This is what the characters are, stiff, lifeless Gamebryo style characters that are reminiscent of Bethesda games from 15 years ago.

 

[regawdless]

Hmm. Is this character a joke npc referencing Oblivion as well?

I'm not sure what there is to defend here.This is what the characters are, stiff, lifeless Gamebryo style characters that are reminiscent of Bethesda games from 15 years ago.

I'm with you on this one. Characters are far more detailed, with better shaders and textures than before. But the animations are stiff, wooden and not natural at all. Even seeing them standing around, I was like, yeah it's a Bethesda game.

 

[Relativ9]

I'm with you on this one. Characters are far more detailed, with better shaders and textures than before. But the animations are stiff, wooden and not natural at all. Even seeing them standing around, I was like, yeah it's a Bethesda game.

Do you know of an open world RPG where this is not the case though?

 

[regawdless]

Do you know of an open world RPG where this is not the case though?

Of course there are games that do animations better. Cyberpunk for example might have some issues when NPCs are running around with sudden directional changes, but the NPCs standing around and occupying various spaces are animated way more naturally.

 

[Kadayi]

Hmm. Is this character a joke npc referencing Oblivion as well?

I'm not sure what there is to defend here.This is what the characters are, stiff, lifeless Gamebryo style characters that are reminiscent of Bethesda games from 15 years ago.

I guess if it bothers you that much don't play it.

The reason they use their own engine is because it is able to handle all of the objects in the game. Unreal etc look fancier but aren't designed to handle that much in the way of assets. Everything is a compromise at the end of the day.

 

[regawdless]

I guess if it bothers you that much don't play it.

The reason they use their own engine is because it is able to handle all of the objects in the game. Unreal etc look fancier but aren't designed to handle that much in the way of assets. Everything is a compromise at the end of the day.

The NPC animations obviously aren't good, which is unfortunate in a game where NPCs are a big part of the experience. I think we all can acknowledge that. Doesn't mean the game as a whole is shit and won't be great. It'll be a bit immersion breaking for me, but I still loved Fallout 3 for example, so the impact will be different for everyone.

There are always concessions to make, resources and time are limited. They could mocap a ton of idle animations for NPCs, have eye rendering tech like Naughty Dog, or implement an automated animation system for faces. Isolated, sure, devs can do that. But in a huge ass project like this, with so many systems interacting, having to balance human resources and compute budget in this highly complex behemoth - it's impossible to nail everything.

AI will save us I guess.

 

[Kadayi]

Looks like they've done some updates to character creation since the previous reveal.

 

[DonDonDonPata]

Most interested in seeing how they further develop the base-building from F4, as well as the semi-randomized permutations of consoles, displays, etc. I alway thought those two were the most impressive aspect of F4's system but clearly held back by the scope of the game and the hardware. Building a base in the wasteland was cool but No Man's Sky has the right idea: give players multiple unique vehicles and base types to own and upgrade as you play through the game. Let the players decide how they want to engage with the customization.

If the Starfield "map" can actually pull off an interconnected economy / physics simulation with tons of non-story stuff churning in t he background, that would be a high achievement that few open world games even bother attempting. It's one thing to pack your game full of sidequests and RPG upgrades. It's another thing entirely to build everything upon a shared RPG/physics ruleset that can be used (and abused) in unscripted ways.

 

[Hostile_18]

I heard you can visit 1000 planets as a marketing point. That sets off tons of red flags.

So were going from a single region in Elder Scrolls and Fallouts to not only the whole world but times it by 999 (+ Space).

Anything more than 20 max and its impossible to create anything meaningful. It will probably be around 5 highly detailed regions and 995 randomly generated BS.

Bear in mind I haven't seen any marketing materials other than the announce date trailer... but I've never been wrong when such claims about size are made.

 

[Kadayi]

I heard you can visit 1000 planets as a marketing point. That sets off tons of red flags.

So were going from a single region in Elder Scrolls and Fallouts to not only the whole world but times it by 999 (+ Space).

Anything more than 20 max and its impossible to create anything meaningful. It will probably be around 5 highly detailed regions and 995 randomly generated BS.

Bear in mind I haven't seen any marketing materials other than the announce date trailer... but I've never been wrong when such claims about size are made.

So you've watched nothing but know everything?

 

[regawdless]

So you've watched nothing but know everything?

Don't be so rough on him. He's just salty because his 4080 won't able to run the game at high fps.

 

[Hostile_18]

So you've watched nothing but know everything?

Yeah your right. A single development team over 5 years has hand crafted an entire universe.

We all want the game to be good, but I think you have to be fairly realistic about what to expect given the scope of the game. We've been through this so many times before from Mass Effect to No Mans Sky.

There's a big market for procedurally generated (at a developer level), "find your own fun" kind of games, but its not for me.

 

[Kadayi]

Yeah your right. A single development team over 5 years has hand crafted an entire universe.

We all want the game to be good, but I think you have to be fairly realistic about what to expect given the scope of the game. We've been through this so many times before from Mass Effect to No Mans Sky.

There's a big market for procedurally generated (at a developer level), "find your own fun" kind of games, but its not for me.

Scepticism is only healthy when it is informed. I recommend watching the Deep dive: -



It's not really going to spoil much for you, and it will give you a clearer understanding of what they are aiming for.

Personally, I don't think it's going to be all singing and all dancing by any stretch of the imagination, however, I expect the positives to outweigh the negatives and as a setting, it presents an excellent foundation for both BGS as well as modders and potentially other developers within the Microsoft family (Obsidian for instance) to build upon with expansions for many years to come.

 

[Hostile_18]

If they are the first developer to really nail scope vs detail I'll be the first to admit I was wrong (and be really happy). I just have seen these types of claims often over the years. I'm not invested in it enough to research it, but ill be keeping my eyes on the game for sure.

I feel the closest anyone has ever come is with The Witcher 3 and that is still just a couple of regions, rather than worlds.

I still remember Mass Effect "explore the galaxy" and it was in reality about 5 detailed locations lol.

 

[Phunkydiabetic]

I'm with you on this one. Characters are far more detailed, with better shaders and textures than before. But the animations are stiff, wooden and not natural at all. Even seeing them standing around, I was like, yeah it's a Bethesda game.

But again, just to reiterate, I'm all in on this game. It'd been way too friggin long since the last big Bethesds rpg. imo it's a guaranteed hit unless something went dramatically wrong.

 

[Phunkydiabetic]

I guess if it bothers you that much don't play it.

The reason they use their own engine is because it is able to handle all of the objects in the game. Unreal etc look fancier but aren't designed to handle that much in the way of assets. Everything is a compromise at the end of the day.

That's a little dramatic don't you think? I've said I'm hyped about this game, I love Bethesda rpg's, why would I miss it because the characters and animation look like something straight out of 2009?

 

[VFX_Veteran]

Barely. It looks like a typical Gamebryo lifeless block of clay character, albeit gussied up a bit let's be real.

You don't know what you are speaking of. SSS and self-shadowing on the skin is not 'barely' better.

 

[Phunkydiabetic]

You don't know what you are speaking of. SSS and self-shadowing on the skin is not 'barely' better.

I do know what I'm speaking of cause I'm looking at it. I posted two side by side examples showing how the characters haven't improved in any sort of dramatic way. It's...right there. In your face. Look at them, they move in the same stilted way, the faces still lack any sort of movement beyond the mouth or eyes, they still have the same dead eyed stare etc.

Aren't you supposed to be the all knowing graphics guy? Why are you purposely overlooking the similarities and overall dated look of the characters haha

 

[regawdless]

You don't know what you are speaking of. SSS and self-shadowing on the skin is not 'barely' better.

I do know what I'm speaking of cause I'm looking at it. I posted two side by side examples showing how the characters haven't improved in any sort of dramatic way. It's...right there. In your face. Look at them, they move in the same stilted way, the faces still lack any sort of movement beyond the mouth or eyes, they still have the same dead eyed stare etc.

Aren't you supposed to be the all knowing graphics guy? Why are you purposely overlooking the similarities and overall dated look of the characters haha

You're both right. The models themselves are much improved, a generational leap. The animation of the character models and their facial expressions didn't improve nearly as much. One is pure looks, the other one is how they come across = unnatural.

 

[Phunkydiabetic]

You're both right. The models themselves are much improved, a generational leap. The animation of the character models and their facial expressions didn't improve nearly as much. One is pure looks, the other one is how they come across = unnatural.

NO. HE IS WRONG AND I AM RIGHT. EDIT YOUR POST TO REFLECT THAT SIR.

 

[Nobel 6]

I try to get banned for console warring.

You'll need to post this at GAF in order to get banned.

 

[regawdless]

You'll need to post this at GAF in order to get banned.

That was the joke, thank you for explaining. Isn't there a thread about our least favorite GAF person? It's definitely that one Lady for me, something about cats.

 

[Kadayi]

ACG on Procedural Generation and Starfield

 

[Black Chamber]

Is this thr star citizen killer?

Star Citizen is a decades long con that killed itself lol!

Take this, Sony!

The fidelity difference is staggering